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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 21st Aug 2020, 14:17
  #1621 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 460
The saddest part for me is that I agree with you I need principle that slot removal and strike action is the last thing the company need. Many of us, like yourself, are passionate about our commercial alma mater and wish to see it continue and thrive when this crisis is over. But no so passionate that we are willing to lose of homes, holidays and lifestyles and more to keep her going. I’m not prepared to sell my family home and downsize, disrupting my children for a PERMANENT contract change which will ultimately only financially benefit shareholders and senior management, who by gift of the company are also shareholders.

Being reasonable and talking to Cruz et al hasn’t helped BALPA. I hear BA are reneging or altering the settlement agreement for those taking VR and that the chair of the BACC has resigned. Other reps suspended.

The only point of consideration is whether Walsh and his cronies actually want to push BA to a devastating strike, bringing the company down into administration and being able to restart with a totally clean sheet of t&cs for all. Doing so isn’t hardly disruptive to a business which does not have any current business. The dangerous downside could be a government re-nationalization of BA as an important British infrastructure. Unless Walsh has already agreed terms with Boris & Co.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 14:50
  #1622 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
Originally Posted by PC767 View Post
I hear BA are reneging or altering the settlement agreement for those taking VR and that the chair of the BACC has resigned. Other reps suspended.
I have not heard anything, rumour or otherwise, about any VR settlements being changed...

But OTOH, yes, the BACC chair resigned earlier this PM, and yes, several reps were suspended earlier in the day or last night. I'm not privy to the exact circumstances..I'm obviously not in the right Whatsapp group..
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 14:53
  #1623 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
I am reminded of the demise of the coal industry when I hear of people demanding temporary change, and wanting to strike at the moment. It is pure insanity.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 15:09
  #1624 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A Farm
Posts: 85
I love this. Balpa has been a management boys club for years. It just serves the few at the top. I know many a BA pilot that hate Bapla and everything about it but stay in for the personal protections.Look at the way it handled its strike and last internal disagreements. I hope the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 15:20
  #1625 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 73
Posts: 269
A source tells me several senior BACC reps have been having behind the bike shed chats with the other side
High Treason
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 15:37
  #1626 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
From what I'm now hearing I'm not sure it would be fair to describe what possibly went on as "High Treason" but the real problem seems to be some on the BACC and the NEC seem to want to label it as such for reasons I can't begin to fathom....

What I do know is that two or three of the most experienced long term BACC Reps have benched, hardly a smart move in the current circumstances..

Last edited by wiggy; 21st Aug 2020 at 16:04.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 15:52
  #1627 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Age: 52
Posts: 109

None of us want to accept permanent contract changes, but I have to disagree with you with regards Slot removal and strike action, bringing down the company and getting it into administration would be an unmitigated disaster for all of us, job losses would increase and any Ts&Cs would be far worse than what is currently on the table.

We are all angry but we need cool heads and UNITE are playing with all our jobs not just those they represent, consumer confidence is at an all time low because of COVID and an incompetent UK government and that threat means what little business we have (about 250 flights today) will drift off to Easyjet etc and the spiral continues until the doors are shut. At that point it’s not a permanently changed contract but it’s no contract at all.

Sorry but now is not the time to threaten strike action or round 2 will be far worse than anyone is expecting.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 16:35
  #1628 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A Farm
Posts: 85
Dear all,

After careful consideration overnight, I have decided to resign as Chairman of the BACC with immediate effect. I accepted the role at a hugely difficult time when everyone else was looking at their feet and have tried my best to steer a collaborative path despite the underlying tribalism and politics on the CC. Having served on two other CCs, I simply cannot comprehend the level of selfishness and politics on display within this council, undoubtedly in cahoots with members of the NEC, to the point where the events of the last week and settling old scores and personal rivalries are put ahead of focussing on the needs of the members at this critical juncture. Literally on the day we have members made CR from BA for the first time ever, when we should be focussed on them, for internal politics to be seen to take over is grotesque beyond belief.

We are in the midst of the greatest crisis facing our members and association ever and as I have repeatedly said to the CC throughout this process, now is the time to put personal agendas aside and focus on the job at hand. Sadly, this CC is incapable of doing so and I simply cannot continue to be associated with it. For my own sanity and health, remaining chairman of this dysfunctional council, trying to do the impossible and 'do the right thing' ahead of politics is no longer sustainable. Personally, I have never felt so low as I do right now and despite significant wobbles throughout the last few months I have tried to soldier on. I simply can't do it any longer.

Attached is the decision paper I wrote up urging an election, I strongly recommend this is actioned as soon as possible, and for democratic integrity, I demand that the three suspended reps are unsuspended and allowed to stand in election (should they even want to after all this). Otherwise, by excluding them from any election, the association leaves itself open to accusations that this entire charade is timed with that very objective in mind. I note that suspension is not an automatic requirement for an investigation as other complaints have not led to suspension. I understand that some of my colleagues hold grievances and it is right that they can raise them, but democratic accountability is best served at the ballot box and they must make their case with those that truly matter, the members, rather than relying on manoeuvres. I note that some individuals amongst the complainants that were against my intention to delay the election back in April to focus on tackling Covid, have now changed stance completely and want an election delayed to give priority to their complaint.

Regarding the complaint itself, I was approached by the complainants back in June as they wanted to force a vote of no confidence in the three reps. As everyone will appreciate, it was a critical time with huge stakes and, along with our National Officer, so I said 'No, now is not the time for politics - concentrate on the job at hand please.' However, I did have a chat with Nick Brown at the time and accepted his apology for anything that I might have felt put out by (which I didn't) and so moved on and focussed on the real work. The complainants were not happy with this and so it has been bubbling away, which I've tried to keep a lid on in order to keep the show on the rather bumpy road. Now that the reps involved have gone direct to the NEC to try and force things due to my refusal to facilitate and get drawn into politics whilst the house is burning down around us, I cannot see a credible way for me to continue in role. Whilst I appreciate that we all have different views, styles and principles and whilst I have been accused by one of the complainants of 'abdication of responsibility' as a result of my stance and not allowing their thirst for a vote of no confidence to distract us, I maintain that now is absolutely not the time for this politics and therefore, I am left with no choice but to resign. As this now leaves the BACC with no chairman, and the one remaining Vice Chair, the P&P chairman (during the biggest P&P project in a generation) and the scheduling chairman all suspended from rep duties, I once again urge a snap election to populate what was already a zombie parliament but has now moved beyond life support. This CC has no credibility and cannot limp on any longer.

I want to publicly thank those reps that have put their heart and soul into recent months and that despite all the underlying issues, 'carried on regardless'. My decision is with a heavy heart because I believe we need strong representation right now more than ever as things will move on at pace, I'm sure. I remain available as a sounding board if the union believes it will help the members and couldn't in good conscience step away totally right now, but I cannot see any way I can stay as chairman under these conditions.

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Old 21st Aug 2020, 16:56
  #1629 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Marlow (mostly)
Posts: 251
For the benefit of those of us who are no longer active BA pilots (and hence no access to company forums) but have friends and relatives who are, is anyone able to give a concise outline of what this is about? I can understand there has been a lot of strong feelings about what changes in T&Cs and employment numbers, but what has triggered this crisis?
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 20:53
  #1630 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hector's house
Posts: 69
If I understand this correctly, BACC representatives may only consult/talk/converse with managers by pre-arranging a meeting and recording the minutes.

brilliant. I'm sure that works.
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 22:04
  #1631 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 73
Posts: 269
Wiggy judging from the last two posts my High Treason charge is not misplaced
The only way this can be resolved is for the NEC to dissolve the BACC and take charge
themselves. Clearly there are vast numbers of displaced L/H pilots who feel lost,
but rules have to be followed, the whole airline will disappear down a vast black hole
unless you all work together
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Old 21st Aug 2020, 22:49
  #1632 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
I see that people are happy to post the names of those suspended but those who made the complaint are still hiding behind the veil of anonymity. This is just plain cowardice.

As for suspending the BACC and the NEC taking over within BA, it would kill BALPA. No one would follow reps from another company foisted upon them.
Juan Tugoh is online now  
Old 22nd Aug 2020, 05:22
  #1633 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 362

"Off the record" conversations take place in all industries. They help to clear the air at a senior level and frequently lead to issues being resolved.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 07:06
  #1634 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
Wiggy judging from the last two posts my High Treason charge is not misplaced

Yes it is...

From what I've heard the problem was supposedly "off the record" conversation of the type referred to in other posts such as hec7or's and Shaman's. It can just as easily described as the reality of negotiation.

The only way this can be resolved is for the NEC to dissolve the BACC and take charge themselves.
You are having a laugh aren't you?

Trust me, given the way the NEC appear to have handled this many of the BALPA members at BA are in absolutely no mood this AM to have the NEC come stomping in and take charge.....

Instead there is a widespread feeling that some of the ex-BACC Reps who were elevated to the NEC in the last year or two have seen an opportunity to settle old scores.

Once they had lodged a complaint it seems the NEC felt obliged by the rulebook to suspend two/three of the BACCs most effective, knowledgable and highly regarded reps...just at the time there might be another S188 letter coming down the tracks.

As a result I'm sure you'll now understand that any attempt at "Direct Rule" by the NEC (if such a thing were possible) would finish BALPA at BA stone dead, in minutes..and there go a lot of membership subscriptions...and there goes BALPA..or at least it's shiny offices.

BA management, who obviously don't hold the rule book in as high regard as the NEC,must be loving this.

Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Aug 2020 at 08:39.
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 08:56
  #1635 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 189
Hi wonder what those" settle old scores are" ?
Seems like a lot of growing up is needed by some of the reps.

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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 09:06
  #1636 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
Wouldn't disagree on that particular point.......

For years, even to this non rep, it appeared that some of the reps were capable of getting into an argument with themselves in a locked room....
wiggy is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2020, 11:34
  #1637 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 132
I might be rejoining BALPA!

In the past I have been a rep in two large airlines. I have also resigned from BALPA twice over the lack of interest in matters concerning non-BA pilots (and on both occasions, increased my pension contributions by the equivalent of my subs). It looks like time to consider rejoining.

(As I'm sure is quite clear, I am not a BA pilot.)

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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 12:17
  #1638 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 73
Posts: 269
Why has the long explanation of the complainants views been removed, such censorship does not help matters
My suggestion that the only way to resolve this pickle quickly is for the BACC chairman to reconsider his resignation with all sacked members reinstated, with a supervision of the 4 BA NEC members to arbitrate and crucially the Gen Sec to get involved.
As head of the organisation he seems to be invisible
A truly democratic election would take months to organise and run
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Old 22nd Aug 2020, 13:55
  #1639 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL390
Posts: 75
As head of the organisation he seems to be invisible
Peter Principle, innit?
Fursty Ferret is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2020, 14:29
  #1640 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,499
My 2p, and I am not BA, nor privy to the negotiations:

Covid19 is an unprecedented global situation. Now is NOT the time for the management to be taking advantage. Nor is it the time for infighting, settling old scores, or for crew to threaten strike action.

The most important thing is to get the wheels of the airline turning again, and this will require everyone's cooperation.

Could it not be agreed that as many BA staff as possible return to work under a "lifeboat" system of temporary reduced pay, part time rosters and skeleton Ts & Cs, (same for all, including management), on the express understanding by both sides that this will only be for, say, a year until green shoots start appearing. After this period, talks and negotiations will resume to restore pay and Ts & Cs and take the business forward, and nothing signed, accepted or implied now will be valid or enforceable after the "lifeboat" period.

Would that be feasible? It could get many back to work, earning at least something, with their ratings and SEP etc. current, and hopefully the business will survive.
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