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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 2nd Aug 2020, 11:47
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shenzen
Age: 40
Posts: 342
You're still thinking about Qatar as a white knight. You need to read other people's experiences with these guys. The culture of the company will be toxic like you've never seen before. And forget BALPA, they certainly won't talk to those guys.
They want BA for the North Atlantic routes. The Americans don't want more Qatar flights.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 11:54
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
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Its already moved out of LHR. No heavy maintenance anymore. No paint shop. TBA a once cutting edge workshop and hangar facility is now a Sim school. CraneBank, gone.
TBD, a world class engine overhaul and test facility, bulldozed. TBE, Stores for a private company. TBB, workshops and Concorde maintenance hangar, gone.
Very sad and shorted sighted of consecutive management policy.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 13:17
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 123
kungfu panda

Nonsense.
You misunderstood the point that they are buying up London property.

They are no saviour at all.
Do they not support terrorist groups to destabilise the region?
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 16:04
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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BA Director of People has gone according to CH Aviation does that help
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 16:41
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
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I see the headline but no actual story.? Is that a credible website?
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 16:51
  #1486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
BA Director of People has gone according to CH Aviation does that help

Not really.

The COO stated that even if CV19 hadnít happened, he would be Ďcoming afterí the staff anyway.

How nice.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 17:41
  #1487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
BA Director of People has gone according to CH Aviation does that help
just to add, is this Angela Williams? Who was to leave this year anyway? Or her replacement who came from IAG cargo? If the former then itís old news, the latter would be more errr, interesting.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 19:07
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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The latter.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 09:23
  #1489 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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BA have already won against the crew. Accept VR before close today, if you don't, you'll be considered for a role on the new mixed fleet contract at c50% wage cut. if you are not selected for new contract, you will get statutory redundancy not the enhanced VR. if you are offered the new contract but decline, you may not be eligible for redundancy at all (don't believe this to be legal, pretty sure redundancy would need to be paid anyway)

standard BA bullying, but from what I hear, significant numbers of legacy crew have already taken he VR.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 09:57
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 96
I wouldn’t describe it as “BA has won”. Sure the companies attitude has been a disgrace from the start, but the crew have been extremely badly advised by their union. Advised to ignore all emails and comms from BA, UNITE refusing to meet BA etc, then last week a massive. Climb down and told all crew to read emails and to consider the VR offer? Coupled with an extremely aggressive letter from Len to Cruz, threatening industrial action! Industrial action Len? Really? Your MF colleagues have been signing contracts and Completing the online assessments for weeks and taking up the slots that the legacy crews have been advised not to consider.
UNITE are one trick ponies and Len Mclusky will abandon it now and move on as he has been out manoeuvred from day1.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 11:22
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: LONDON England
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Sadly

clipstone1

I’m sorry to say , it is legal. Been done in BT , HSBC and Centrica owned British Gas going through it now.
Good luck to all at the moment.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 11:47
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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3Greens

Nobody wins out of this one. The Company,Staff and Shareholders .

I think the Staff Unions failure to bargain collectively has let the members down.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 12:20
  #1493 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Looks like it might finally be the end for 'BASSA runs BA, darling'.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 15:07
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Along with the signing of a new deal between IAG Cargo and Malaysia, the free money from the UK taxpayer to IAG for operating the Newquay service (not forgetting furlough cash), here’s a possible windfall of £163m for IAG.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...m-data-breach/
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 21:51
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 74woko View Post
Looks like it might finally be the end for 'BASSA runs BA, darling'.
Well it certainly looks like many of the more senior crew members have seen the writing on the wall in the last few days and have opted for VR...looking at the appropriate farcebook page I can see that it looks like a lot of good people are going or have already gone.

Last edited by wiggy; 4th Aug 2020 at 05:38.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 18:16
  #1496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Bit of a long post, bear with me.......

So I'd say the redundancies are purely "political" and could have been avoided.

Lets say we're losing to CR 270 pilots basically on LIFO (assuming almost no one has conduct issues, and very few have performance issues).

So 270 x 50,000 salary = 13.5 million a year. (50,000 chosen as whilst some will be pay point 1 or 2 DEPs, many of these will be self sponsored or future pilot programme, so their basic is not a lot more than 30k,)

Well 13.5 million is only just over half a day's cash burn (according to Willie) so point 1 is that it will hardly save the company.

Point 2 - Flight Ops did not avail themselves of any of the Government's money through the Job Retention Scheme (furlough). Now regardless of whether BA decided to "top-up" as they did with Cabin Crew etc, the fact of the matter is that they could have easily furloughed 3000+ pilots (given the flying programme to date) for up to 8 months, so:

3000 pilots x 2500 per month x 8 months = 60 million direct to BA from the Government "for free".....

That's the 270 CR pilot's salary for 4.4 YEARS!!!

So if we'd used the Government money, we could've afforded to keep these 270 pilots on for the next 4.4 years! Makes you think doesn't it!!!

And now a couple of questions...

Question 1 - So we are putting 300 in a Community Retention scheme at a cost to the remaining pilots of circa 8%.... What then happens if there are further redundancies required in the future in the event of passenger traffic not recovering... Do the new redundancies (mainly more senior than the CRS 300) get pushed out to compulsory redundancy, or do they replace the 300 in the CRS? There's no right or wrong answer, but has it been considered? I don't think it has!

Question 2 - Given the CRS is likely to be including a fair number of "surplus" Captains, the "cost per head" in the CRS is likely to be quite high. Given the 270 redundancies are likely mainly pay point 1 or 2 SSPs and FPPs with a few pp1/2 DEPs, surely the extra cost of including them in the CRS could've only been an extra 2-3%? So would we have been willing to make the "cost" of the CRS 10-11% instead of 8%? Especially as it should reduce over time I would think most would say yes?

Question 3 - Why do we have just CRS and compulsory redundancy? Why not have the 300 CRS and then when someone returns to BA there is a vacancy in the CRS for one of the pay point 1/2 ppl who's been made CR to at least get some funding? Ok it would mean the 8% doesn't drop, but given the CRS only runs for two years, again maybe we as a community would've accepted this?

Question 4 - What is there to stop a 55-60+ pilot taking CRS for up to two years (say from 747 fleet), being offered a course on another fleet and turning it down and deciding to retire? The pilot community will then have funding this person for two years when they knew they wouldn't return and just wanted to max their cash before retiring?

Sorry for the long post, but I do wonder if BALPA have fully thought this through? I find it interesting that the reps doing the negotiating have made very sure that their particular demographic (fleet, paypoint) is well looked after, even if it means some other demographics suffer!!! (But then wasn't that always the way with BALPA?)

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 18:53
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Your comment about CR being political is valid and I suspect the whole pilot community is aware of that. I'm afraid given the long history of "the BA way" when it comes to various employee groups at BA looking over the fence and seeing how other groups are treated I can see why it has happened but yes it sucks.

I think your Q4 is valid one, I've not seen anything to prevent somebody behaving in the way you describe but I may have missed it in all the "traffic" on this whole subject.

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 19:15
  #1498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 96
there’s nothing to stop it at all, BUT I doubt it will happen in practise. Chances are they’ve passed up the offer of VR to do so, and if they’re offered an early course, and turn it down; they leave the business. They’ll have gambled on the VR sum and lost. To make it work they’d have to stay in the CRS for the whole two years to even break even.
so, whilst there’s nothing to stop it, I just can’t see anyone taking that gamble.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 20:56
  #1499 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
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Point 4 just will not happen for the motives you suggest. An individual would have been better off taking the VR. I think there will be some attrition with people finding better alternatives and deciding not to return to BA though. I am highly likely to end up in the CRS, but I for one will be spending the time working on embarking on a new career. I have not got enough working years left in me to sit about pinning all my hopes on BA actually make good on their promise, and allowing me to return to flying two years plus down the line. If my new chosen career suits me better by the time BA decide to invite me back, I cannot see me staying loyal to BA. If the new career isn’t working out as I hoped, then I’ll gladly take the offered course.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 21:11
  #1500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I've just realised why the Royal Air Force gave me a 38/16 Commission and not a career for life.
...supply/demand
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