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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 16th Jun 2020, 10:32
  #961 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 143
Come on and letís think about it for a moment..

letís say for one second that there are ďcaptains willing to go to BA for 20kĒ then they:
- Have to pass selection
- background check
- Have their licenses checked, validated
- Have to be Issued a UKCAA licence
- Induction course / CRM / Groundschool
- OCC
- Security course / airport badge
- line training

imagine you have to plan this for 1000plus pilots while other airlines are doing the same. How are you going to get simulator availability? This will be a total nightmare.

This applies to type rated pilots. Flying Clogís ďA380 CaptainĒ has to do a complete type rating!!
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 11:47
  #962 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by TheAirMission View Post
Yes, blame the kids. etc.
BA used to fully fund their cadet's flight training, would you be able to let me know what the Union did to maintain that arrangement?
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 12:44
  #963 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
Is it that they believe the price is too high, or that they know itís the going rate but just donít care because theyíve found an opportunity they otherwise would never have found to reduce terms anyway?
But what is this 'going rate'? - if the airline can find people to sit in the 2 seats at the front of the plane for £50k and £25k respectively then surely that is the going rate. £200k and £100k might have been the case 20 years ago but the industry has moved on. As a previous poster pointed out, it used to be the case where the airlines paid for training but at the same time they restricted access to that training so that only a few people were lucky enough to become a pilot and thus supply never exceeded demand - now the system is more 'democratised' and anyone with the money can fulfil their dream.

Is it likely that we are going to go back to the old system and wage levels? - I'd suggest probably not so I think people need to get used to the new normal and decide whether aviation is the career for them.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 12:59
  #964 (permalink)  
 
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That is the problem, as for the last few years Flying ability is taking a back seat to anyone who has or can gain access to money to pay to fly. Look at what has happened in some countries, as long as you have a bit of paper that says it is a licence does not necessarily mean that person has been correctly trained and certified as a pilot or even engineer for that matter!
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 13:27
  #965 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Doesnt look like WW is in the mood to back down. And I do think he has a point that it is a bit of a cheek for Huw Merriman to complain when it is his Party who have introduced the 14 day quarantine (and the 2 meter distancing) that is effectively killing the industry.
Not really. WW started this abuse well before the 14 day quarantine idea was introduced. It isn't killing the industry either. The virus is doing that all by itself.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 14:04
  #966 (permalink)  
 
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Err no. The governments reaction to the virus is killing the industry.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 17:35
  #967 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
But what is this 'going rate'? - if the airline can find people to sit in the 2 seats at the front of the plane for £50k and £25k respectively then surely that is the going rate. £200k and £100k might have been the case 20 years ago but the industry has moved on. As a previous poster pointed out, it used to be the case where the airlines paid for training but at the same time they restricted access to that training so that only a few people were lucky enough to become a pilot and thus supply never exceeded demand - now the system is more 'democratised' and anyone with the money can fulfil their dream.

Is it likely that we are going to go back to the old system and wage levels? - I'd suggest probably not so I think people need to get used to the new normal and decide whether aviation is the career for them.
A fair point, which is why the outcome of the consultations / negotiations / call them what you will is so crucial. If the unions can succeed in securing the long term contracts now, that sends a message that the going rate is the current rate, as a minimum.

I hear Aer Lingus are on the cusp of of a deal with their pilots / IALPA that doesn’t see any changes to contracts, rather short term part time deals, and also no redundancies.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 19:52
  #968 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
I hear Aer Lingus are on the cusp of of a deal with their pilots / IALPA that doesnít see any changes to contracts, rather short term part time deals, and also no redundancies.
This has to strengthen our hand, surely? It creates precedent for IAG. However, as someone has pointed out on the Balpa forums, stand by to be fed all the usual excuses from the BACC why this canít apply to us as we get served up a wholly unappetizing sh*t sandwich.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 19:55
  #969 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the BACC are scared to death of what they have to recommend to you. It could cost the existence of BALPA.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 20:20
  #970 (permalink)  
 
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Ireland has a 14 day quarantine in place too, so that canít be used as an excuse by BA to slash jobs.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 20:58
  #971 (permalink)  
 
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They don't need an excuse. They can do what they like. At the end they have you guys by the short and curly's. You have nothing to bargain with at all right now. There are hundreds of guys with EASA licences, type ratings, experience on type, recency, Police clearance etc returning from the middle east needing "any" job, and now. Anybody suggesting that BALPA have chips to play is deceiving himself.

WW is in an awfully difficult position as well. I'm sure he is s........ himself. He wants to take this opportunity to roll over your salaries, he'll never get this chance again. However he knows that he may need to make real this threat of firing the lot of you, but then how in the heck does he get enough of you/ex-Emirates guys back into the flight deck to restart operations in August or September.

MOL would just fire you. No messing around. You'd already be gone.

This is Interesting. What is going to happen??
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 21:05
  #972 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of BS on here.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 21:25
  #973 (permalink)  
 
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As crap as the CAA are, there has to be a question mark over the AOC if the company decide to "go nuclear". Particularly if training appointment holders are sacked too. It just doesn't seem like a likely scenario to me, but who knows. We're in uncharted territory.

The most likely outcome is the most obvious one. A crap deal, but BALPA recommends it and it goes through with a decent margin, despite all hell breaking loose on the other forum.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 21:59
  #974 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
The most likely outcome is the most obvious one. A crap deal, but BALPA recommends it and it goes through with a decent margin, despite all hell breaking loose on the other forum.
Yes. That is what will happen.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 22:05
  #975 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
As crap as the CAA are, there has to be a question mark over the AOC if the company decide to "go nuclear". Particularly if training appointment holders are sacked too. It just doesn't seem like a likely scenario to me, but who knows. We're in uncharted territory.
Trainers would obviously not be sacked. Those guys would get a pay rise.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 22:24
  #976 (permalink)  
 
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You seriously think we’d step up to the plate if the rest of our colleagues had just been given the boot? I can tell you for a fact it wouldn’t happen..

Dont feed the troll folks...
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 22:34
  #977 (permalink)  
 
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I've been through this, you'd save your own skin. Whatever you say on PPRuNe.
As Northern Monkey said, it's not the likely scenario. It is however going through the mind of WW.
In reality BALPA have to recommend whatever WW decides or risk "the nuclear option".
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 22:45
  #978 (permalink)  
 
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GMB and UNITE aren't doing what WW asks so why should BALPA?
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 22:49
  #979 (permalink)  
 
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So can we passengers expect 30 000+ really p*ssed off customer facing staff, a poisonous atmosphere on the flight deck if people are brought in to replace refusenics, and about 12 000 really angry people with cars to bring T5 to a halt on a daily basis for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure WW has thought this through.

Compare and contrast with the Aer Lingus proposals.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 23:34
  #980 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
I've been through this, you'd save your own skin. Whatever you say on PPRuNe.
As Northern Monkey said, it's not the likely scenario. It is however going through the mind of WW.
In reality BALPA have to recommend whatever WW decides or risk "the nuclear option".
Dont feed this troll.
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