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Sim Checks - Horror Stories?

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Sim Checks - Horror Stories?

Old 5th Apr 2019, 20:11
  #41 (permalink)  

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The nation of Germany does have recent history which is diabolical. Sorry you are tired of being reminded of it��
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 20:35
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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And who said ze Germans have no sense of humour? I read it as a compliment!
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 20:54
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Not a malicious TRE but a bizarre one nonetheless. Happened in one of Europe’s biggest airlines about 15 years ago:

EDI - LTN... suspicious package found. Bomb goes off - rapid depressurisation, loss of system b hydraulics and elev pitot fail. Landed at NCL and stopped on runway.

First of question of debrief - “Why did you call Mayday when a Pan would have sufficed”... I kid you not! 😂
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 05:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like the same checker that asked me why I was using my finger to select v/s on a 747-400 MCP.
‘It’s called a THUMBWHEEL for a reason!”
My skipper commented we must have done ok if that was the only feedback he could give us.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 05:28
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Or maybe the checker that demanded to see my second pair of glasses as it states I must carry a second pair on my medical certificate. He wasn’t impressed that I only had a spare pair of corrected sunglasses. I did point out that I didn’t think I would need them in the Sim.

Last edited by hunterboy; 11th Apr 2019 at 16:24. Reason: Clarification that my second pair of glasses were corrected sunglasses....
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 10:06
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like the same checker that asked me why I was using my finger to select v/s on a 747-400 MCP.
‘It’s called a THUMBWHEEL for a reason!”
I'm not sure I want to know what he insisted you use to turn a knob.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 19:56
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Or maybe the checker that demanded to see my second pair of glasses as it states I must carry a second pair on my medical certificate. He wasn’t impressed that I only had 1 pair of corrected sunglasses. I did point out that I didn’t think I would need them in the Sim.
To be fair, you wouldn’t be in possession of a valid medical if you weren’t meeting the Restriction imposed by it to carry a second pair. This would the render your flying license invalid, preventing a check (certainly the case with an LPC), no?
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 13:59
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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No, there is no requirement to have a valid medical for an LPC in the sim. The TRE is required to formally remind the candidate after (s)he has passed that they may not exercise the privileges until they have renewed their medical. Interestingly, also true of a check in the aircraft for single pilot types, since legally with the examiner as PiC the candidate is not a required member of the crew!
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 15:21
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Well this is another Horror Stories , because at my last LPC the TRE refused to let me enter the sim , my medical was due the next days , but his words where that the sim is exactly like the real airplane , you can’t enter it and “ fly “ if your medical is expired.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 18:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nick 1 View Post
Well this is another Horror Stories , because at my last LPC the TRE refused to let me enter the sim , my medical was due the next days , but his words where that the sim is exactly like the real airplane , you can’t enter it and “ fly “ if your medical is expired.
v interesting stories and sad that some feel the need to bully sim candidates, it really isn’t necessary and achieves only negative training/checking.

The conduct of an LPC is clearly outlined in standards doc 24, many national authorities are very strict on the conduct of tests and especially multiple failures, the bottom line if you feel that the conduct of the LPC was genuinely was unfair then you are fully entitled to submit a formal complaint, any physical abuse, touching, gender humiliation will all most certainly result in the suspension of authority to conduct tests, remember the examiner is aurthorised by the national authority and NOT the company, so a compliant to authority will lead to a company/authority investigation.

I would suggest that all pilots read standard doc 24 ( all EU authorities use basically the same document) the CAA (UK) are the lead authority and much of standards around the world are based on their expertise.

That things go go wrong with rostering/ crew mix is inevitable when dealing with sim planning and sometime the instructor/examiner is messed around every bit as much the guys/girls in the front.

Remember the evexaminer doesn’t fail you....you and I mean you should only fail if YOU fail to reach the required standard to excercise the privileges of your licence.

Most larger companies will have at least one “arsehole” and I’ve known people go sick rather than be checked by them, in pilot training management we see this trend very quickly, but we can’t act unless we get complaints, we can’t exactly go to said TRE and ask why pilots go sick rather than be checked with them, we should not interfere with their judgement, for that is a slippery slope, again remember the TRE authorisation is from the authority not the company.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 19:11
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Sounds like the same checker that asked me why I was using my finger to select v/s on a 747-400 MCP.
‘It’s called a THUMBWHEEL for a reason!”
My skipper commented we must have done ok if that was the only feedback he could give us.
At which point you should ask him to demonstrate the nosewheel steering
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 01:33
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Always Try Reset View Post
At which point you should ask him to demonstrate the nosewheel steering
Many nice stories here. I hope most airlines are modern enough to weed most of these guys out nowadays.
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 03:24
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Or maybe the checker that demanded to see my second pair of glasses as it states I must carry a second pair on my medical certificate. He wasn’t impressed that I only had 1 pair of corrected sunglasses. I did point out that I didn’t think I would need them in the Sim.
Must be the same checker I had for my initial LST on the 747-400....or are they all briefed to make life extra stressful in that company? I was asked to present my second pair of glasses which as far as my understanding goes is not required in the sim, only in an aircraft. I offered to shoot out to the car park after the session to prove I owned a second pair but that was not good enough apparently. He had to call the training dept at the end of the session, saying he was unwilling to sign me off. Surprise surprise he was ordered to stop being pedantic and get the paperwork completed.
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 10:31
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by skyflyer737 View Post


Must be the same checker I had for my initial LST on the 747-400....or are they all briefed to make life extra stressful in that company? I was asked to present my second pair of glasses which as far as my understanding goes is not required in the sim, only in an aircraft. I offered to shoot out to the car park after the session to prove I owned a second pair but that was not good enough apparently. He had to call the training dept at the end of the session, saying he was unwilling to sign me off. Surprise surprise he was ordered to stop being pedantic and get the paperwork completed.
I had an almost identical scenario - so I am guessing that this guy was airbus fleet and is now 747 fleet......
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Old 9th Apr 2019, 09:15
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EIFFS View Post


v interesting stories and sad that some feel the need to bully sim candidates, it really isn’t necessary and achieves only negative training/checking.

The conduct of an LPC is clearly outlined in standards doc 24, many national authorities are very strict on the conduct of tests and especially multiple failures, the bottom line if you feel that the conduct of the LPC was genuinely was unfair then you are fully entitled to submit a formal complaint, any physical abuse, touching, gender humiliation will all most certainly result in the suspension of authority to conduct tests, remember the examiner is aurthorised by the national authority and NOT the company, so a compliant to authority will lead to a company/authority investigation.

I would suggest that all pilots read standard doc 24 ( all EU authorities use basically the same document) the CAA (UK) are the lead authority and much of standards around the world are based on their expertise.

That things go go wrong with rostering/ crew mix is inevitable when dealing with sim planning and sometime the instructor/examiner is messed around every bit as much the guys/girls in the front.

Remember the evexaminer doesn’t fail you....you and I mean you should only fail if YOU fail to reach the required standard to excercise the privileges of your licence.

Most larger companies will have at least one “arsehole” and I’ve known people go sick rather than be checked by them, in pilot training management we see this trend very quickly, but we can’t act unless we get complaints, we can’t exactly go to said TRE and ask why pilots go sick rather than be checked with them, we should not interfere with their judgement, for that is a slippery slope, again remember the TRE authorisation is from the authority not the company.
Great post, just to add : UK CAA STANDARDS 24
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Old 9th Apr 2019, 09:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Recurrent sim in small-ish bizjet. Takeoff on 12000' runway - TODR is approx 3500'. Attempt to rotate at VR to find elevator is jammed. Abort the takeoff and come to comfortable stop with at least 6000' remaining.
Sim examiner: "Are you allowed to abort after V1?"
Me: "If the aircraft doesn't fly, and I'm on a 12,000' runway, I don't go flying."
Sim examiner: "You should have rotated using the stab trim and conducted the "stuck elevator" checklist airborne."
Me: "We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one - how does that sound?"
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Old 9th Apr 2019, 09:59
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by josephfeatherweight View Post
Recurrent sim in small-ish bizjet. Takeoff on 12000' runway - TODR is approx 3500'. Attempt to rotate at VR to find elevator is jammed. Abort the takeoff and come to comfortable stop with at least 6000' remaining.
Sim examiner: "Are you allowed to abort after V1?"
Me: "If the aircraft doesn't fly, and I'm on a 12,000' runway, I don't go flying."
Sim examiner: "You should have rotated using the stab trim and conducted the "stuck elevator" checklist airborne."
Me: "We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one - how does that sound?"

Absolutely ridiculous!!

You are within your rights to modify or change any existing procedure or checklist as you see fit in an emergency, by stopping you just averted one.

In the aircraft I fly, a valuable discussion was had about V1 based on different flap settings.

For example, a flap 0 departure has a v1 about 10ktsi faster than a typical flap setting for departure.

if I had an engine failure or safety of flight, would I not stop safely on runway remaining having aborted above one V1, but below the higher V1 for a flap 0 departure.... of course I would.

I would have done the same as you, there’s not really much else you can do!






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Old 9th Apr 2019, 12:12
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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@EIFFS .. make a perfect sense , thank you.
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Old 9th Apr 2019, 15:58
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Odins Raven View Post
Not a malicious TRE but a bizarre one nonetheless. Happened in one of Europe’s biggest airlines about 15 years ago:

EDI - LTN... suspicious package found. Bomb goes off - rapid depressurisation, loss of system b hydraulics and elev pitot fail. Landed at NCL and stopped on runway.

First of question of debrief - “Why did you call Mayday when a Pan would have sufficed”... I kid you not! 😂
That made me laugh, I got Day 2 of Command upgrade, Bomb Warning, Bomb goes off, depressurisation, e-descent and to top it all Fuel Percolation! Epr gauges going up and down like a one arm paper hanger! It was so stressful both of us candidates started giggling! Funny if it was the same trainer.
The other one which springs to mind is V1, rotate, engine falls off. Ecam Xmas tree :-)
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 13:26
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Part of my Airbus command upgrade few years ago...

Crossbleed start, Cold weather ops with 'actual' de-icing and cold weather altimetry corrections, contaminated runway take off, weather avoidance and TCAS RA, autothrust become inop due EIU fault, red bomb warning in cruise, cargo door open and cabin rate climbing, explosive decompression - emergency descent, eng failure in descent, divert, hold, procedural ILS, slat/flap jam during approach, go-around, fuel imbalance, land, loss of braking, ATC advise fluid leaking from aircraft.

Engine start fault, gear not uplocked after take off - recycled ok, engine vibration & shutdown, return to land, flap fault, go-around, no radar - procedural only, hold, glideslope failure go-around, hold, VOR/DME approach, land.

Autopilot inop, V1 cut, fire not out, massive fuel leak, ILS failed on final in IMC, tight vector downwind, APU fire on final, evacuate on runway.

IDG inop with MEL, take off, cargo door open (indication only), other IDG fails, APU GEN fails, electrical emergency, loss of pressurisation, hold, divert, direct law landing.

A bit over the top but it was good going on line knowing you can deal with all this shit and have a solid system in place to stay on top of what ever comes along.
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