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Cadet in Ryanair or Vueling?

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Cadet in Ryanair or Vueling?

Old 19th May 2018, 11:42
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Join Date: May 2018
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Question Cadet in Ryanair or Vueling?

Hi all,

Given both options and suceeding in both selection processes, would you prefer joining Vueling or Ryanair as a new cadet without experience, right out of school?

Facts:
- I'm a tall person and I've been told that Airbus is way more comfortable than the Boeing.
- Vueling's main hub is closer to my home
- Ryanair's salary is way better than Vueling
- Ryanair's roster is better than Vueling


I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, thank you guys!

Greetings
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Old 19th May 2018, 16:27
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Join Date: May 2017
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There are always 3 most important things:
- base
- roster
- money

In case of ryr roster and money are good, the base initially might be not the one you want, but recently from what I heard new foīs are getting transfers in 1 year normally.

Try to ask ryr about which base they offer you...
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Old 19th May 2018, 17:29
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737 cockpit is definitely not a comfortable place to be, but I wouldn’t base a career choice on that, particularly for short haul.

I think base is a high priority because you need to be with friends and family, otherwise what’s the point right? A good salary and roster, can become pretty average if you end up paying for a mortgage at home and rent where you’re based, and commuting on a 5/4 Roster soon can become a fatiguing 7/2. So, it really depends on your own personal circumstances and priorities.

I wouldn't recommend Ryanair to anyone, but in truth, it’s a good enough platform for your first jet job, if there are no better options of course, I don’t know much about Vueling, but I’ve heard the pay is rubbish. If you get good money and roster with the possibility of getting to your home base within a reasonable timescale, it’s probably a no brainer.

Good luck! Would be interesting to know what decision you make eventually.
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Old 19th May 2018, 17:34
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Another issue is vueling offering 6 moths contract or permanent?
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Old 19th May 2018, 17:55
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Regardless of Your choice if You are in your early twenties my suggestion is to do as much as experience as You can regardless of where You will be based and get the most out of it both in terms of flying and of Your personal growth. Being based "far away" from home (we're always talking about maybe max 4 hours away?) will help You to become even more responsible and to take care of things that You are not used to. It's not going to be for a long period of time anyway, 1 or 2 years max then You will. Manage to get Your home base but You will definitely bring good memories with You even if You are based in the worst place ever and tell Yourself that You have made it on Your own. The point is : if you are still young enjoy it and build experience from all points of view, that will come back to you later on.
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Old 20th May 2018, 08:11
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Originally Posted by simple9 View Post
Hi all,
- Ryanair's salary is way better than Vueling
Chances of the taxman knocking on your door are also way better than Vueling
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Old 20th May 2018, 09:19
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When you are out of flight school you will choose what comes first because you desperately need to make hours and if you build jet time it's golden hours. You'll have plenty of time to change between Airbus and Boeing during your career, so don't think about this. The most important factor is always quality of life, not even money.

And by the way I know a guy tall 2.10 meters and he's quite happy on the 737.
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Old 20th May 2018, 10:39
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Originally Posted by eduelp View Post
Chances of the taxman knocking on your door are also way better than Vueling
A chance which can be totally eliminated by paying ones taxes as they are owed, instead of sponging off society like a leach.
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Old 20th May 2018, 12:48
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Being a Captain on a RYR direct contract I don't know really anything about contract options they offer to new FO. But from what I hear from my very very young collegues in the cockpit they are sometimes ending up with a salary of a directly employed RYR captain which is awfully good for a green boy learning to fly an airliner imho.

The 737 is THE MOST unergonomic aircraft I have ever flown in my life. And I was PIC on the entire CRJ series(beautiful cockpit, excellent PFD, MFD, and fantastic EICAS that I miss most on this 1960's style 737, even they added some sceens to make it look better), A300-600 and as well a "jungle jet"(ERJ145, miserable aircraft, cockpit still better then the NG one). Most likely this cockpit(including this very very bad seats) will make me change eventually on an Airbus again.
For a first job I would not overrate the cockpit, especially the 737 is an much easier to understand aircraft as an Airbus(after all they ARE designed by french which always prefer the more complicated then easy solution :-) ), nice to fly as well. Even that the RYR way of flying them has not much to do with real flying, but that is another story and not important for a newby.

Base. Well, I have seen a lot of "out of base" FO going through my base(which was my first choice, so easier for DEC to get their base of choice, of course) but on the other hand a lot of them told me that they are sitting already at their base of choice or expecting a transfer very soon. RYR realized that they have to get moving otherwise they will loose even more pilots. Putting them in the base they want to be is one of the steps they are doing.

Met a former collegue which left our old company to go to Vueling(BCN base) but then decided to join RYR. He said it is still much better then Vueling for him(just to mention that, have no comparison).

In a nutshell: RYR offers:
- better pay
- i think cadets dont need to pay anymore for TR, just bonded
-normally fast base transfer
- "easier" aircraft
- better roster(fully agree, the 5/4 is fanstastic AS LONG you are at your homebase. If you need to commute it might get VERY exhausting)

Hope I could help. I did not mention RYR management, I think everyone in the business knows this guys. They promised they will change, I would be careful with that. My expectations are low, but hey, wonders do happen from time to time, right?
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Old 20th May 2018, 12:58
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Originally Posted by eduelp View Post
Chances of the taxman knocking on your door are also way better than Vueling
Well. Yes. But this is the case with most biz jets jockeys as well. Having as well experience in that (dark) sector of aviation I know how a lot of this guys "handle" their taxes(even knew some that got social insurance as unemployed because they claimed to have no job back home....).

In RYR you can avoid that situation by insisting in a direct employement, which DEC's usually get offered(and most of them would not join on an agency contract, me included). But as well more and more "agency" FO are getting offered now direct employment. Of course, the salary goes down massively for this FO, but of course you avoid unwelcome visits from the taxman.

After all a personal choice. AND IF you do it right, even on agency contracts, you have nothing to fear if they start checking you out.....
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Old 20th May 2018, 13:15
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True that the ones worrying about a knock down by the tax authority are the ones who try to get away cheap and not pay their dues. Be aware of your obligations as self-employed merchant.

It is quite upsetting however to give away the better portion of your salary to Ireland - a country you're likely to visit no more than on a handful of half hour turnarounds. I guess they're still insisting on Irish contracts for both permanent and contractor pilots?
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Old 20th May 2018, 14:47
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Ryanair.

Despite my well documented hatred for the company, the money is good for a cadet and the training is world leading. I left some time ago, but everywhere I go in various sim centres around the world I, and any other ex Ryanair colleagues, always get a "oh you're ex-Ryanair? Great! You'll have no problems with this course. It's always a pleasure teaching ex-Ryanair pilots, you guys just get it".

It's set me up for my career, the training is so well recognised. It's even better than that at legacy carriers, but such carriers won't (and the pilots who have been at legacy airline for +30 years) won't like to admit it. Some airlines won't sim check Ryanair pilots during assessments, but they will everyone else.

The 737 is a handful to fly, but if you fly that well and get a good grounding (ie at Ryanair), then you will find that any other modern jet is an absolute piece of cake.
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Old 20th May 2018, 16:45
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Originally Posted by pudoc View Post
Some airlines won't sim check Ryanair pilots during assessments, but they will everyone else.
Go on, Iíll bite... which airlines are these??

To the OP, if youíve got offers from both... great. If not, apply for both and go for whichever one offers first. Itís all about getting your foot in the door and getting jet time. Can worry about comfort preferences later
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Old 21st May 2018, 07:54
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Some airlines won't sim check Ryanair pilots during assessments, but they will everyone else. Go on, Iíll bite... which airlines are these??

Interesting. Are sim checks done on autopilot these days?
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Old 21st May 2018, 09:41
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Chances of the taxman knocking on your door are also way better than Vueling


What a load of pish..
Tax are individual responsibility, pay what you are due where it's due and you'll never have to worry about the tax man.
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Old 21st May 2018, 11:52
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Originally Posted by pudoc View Post
Ryanair.

Despite my well documented hatred for the company, the money is good for a cadet and the training is world leading. I left some time ago, but everywhere I go in various sim centres around the world I, and any other ex Ryanair colleagues, always get a "oh you're ex-Ryanair? Great! You'll have no problems with this course. It's always a pleasure teaching ex-Ryanair pilots, you guys just get it".

It's set me up for my career, the training is so well recognised. It's even better than that at legacy carriers, but such carriers won't (and the pilots who have been at legacy airline for +30 years) won't like to admit it. Some airlines won't sim check Ryanair pilots during assessments, but they will everyone else.

The 737 is a handful to fly, but if you fly that well and get a good grounding (ie at Ryanair), then you will find that any other modern jet is an absolute piece of cake.
If you think a 73 is hard to fly, maybe you should try another sort of job. Forklift driver maybe?
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Old 22nd May 2018, 19:30
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@pudoc

Well, RYR is as it is. We ALL know what RYR is, it fits for some(for me it does, after more than 25 years in airline aviation I finally can go home after work, sleep in my own bed, see my kids grow up and NOT sit in a bloody hotel somewhere around the bloody world. For guys like me RYR is great. Ignoring the HQ BS of course as much as you can which is very easy if you are far away from DUB(which I am ;-) ) on a as small as possible base. Then you are fine.

Money is indeed good for any cadet, nearly no carrier can match that for a very green pilot.You need to value that. As for the "world leading training" you mentioned.... well, if you are a bit experienced and aged it is not really that world class. It is a stupid SOP training course going on for nearly 3 months(NTR) and in that time they barely teach you HOW to fly that so easy to handle(but very unergonomic, cannot stress that enough) 737. Even linetraining fails here very often because they NEED to work through that stupid linetraining workbook so you do all kinds of approaches but do not learn the most common ones properly BEFORE they release you to the line.
After that the real challenge starts and it needs a lot of experience to manage that first few months(as a Captain at least) to learn that bloody thing finally by YOURSELF. After that you are fine. Partly of experience, mainly because the 737 is a very easy aircraft, it is american after all and there it must be simple(which is no offence but actually a good thing in aviation if you remember test pilots dying in an A320 accident...).

I can understand that legacy carriers(worked for 2 of them by myself, both unfortunately are no more) doubt the quality of RYR training. I do. But it is just another thing you deal with as an RYR pilot which most likely makes us the most flexible guys in aviation business. And we can learn ANY SOP after we could deal with moron RYR ones(245 kts during descent, *facepalm* and omg ^^, and that in a jet aircraft). And that stupid "rings", nobody else uses them for approaches except us, heard some funny stories from recruitment sims when RYR cadets wanted to enter them and the checker did not let them ...

@45989

The 737 is indeed a very simple aircraft(to fly). IF you have a problem it becomes very aged. ANY modern aircraft(and yes, the 737 is NOT a modern aircraft, despite the "NG"^^) does a better job in feeding information to the pilots by EICAS and even some of them with ECAM(Airbus) actions and electronic checklists. The 737 has nothing in that direction, you need to go searching for lights.... Go/No go decissions are harder on this type then anything modern because you see(on modern aircraft) the problem within 1 second on the CAS without turning your head around. But the flying is simple, the mechanics behind as well. That is very true.
Unfortunately Boeing was to coward to design a "new" 737 based on a 777/787 cockpit and really make it a NG or MAX. Like that is still the old crap it is and always will be. And just because they did not want to make it a new typerating - so stupid.

Btw - worked as a forklift driver when I was young, many many many years ago financing my licenses. Not so easy as you think, especially if handling hazardous materials and loading them as fast as possible onto a truck. Being pushed by the boss AND the truckdriver to speed up a bit .... I am more relaxed in my 737 then I was on that forklift my friend....
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Old 23rd May 2018, 00:16
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Originally Posted by zero/zero View Post


Go on, Iíll bite... which airlines are these??

To the OP, if youíve got offers from both... great. If not, apply for both and go for whichever one offers first. Itís all about getting your foot in the door and getting jet time. Can worry about comfort preferences later
Norwegian didnít sim check Ryanair FOs on the 737 fleet in 2013/2014 but they sim checked FOs from other airlines. Im
not sure is that still the case however.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 15:20
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
They definitely check (and cut a fair number) now.
I know 3 who joined in the last 12 months with no sim check.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 15:45
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
All I can say is what I've seen and the interviews of everyone I know joining had FR guys of both seats doing a sim check.
Point is, FR does not 'guarantee ' a next job automatically sans interview etc.
Absolutely, nothing should be guaranteed like that. The 3 I know who joined without a sim check were FO's, any of the capt's i know that joined did do a sim check.
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