Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Aer Lingus FO

Old 16th Jan 2018, 18:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 235
I am not sure Virgin have a particularly short command time, also their record on hiring direct entry captains is fairly poor as well (not that I see the importance of that). You seem to be struggling with the concept of a seniority system, when you join you will indeed be behind everyone for command or fleet change irrespective of nationality, that’s the price you pay for joining a legacy airline!
Enzo999 is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2018, 18:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: LGW
Posts: 666
This is not because of your nationality, but because they respect their own seniority list. Rightly a FO who has served many years on the right will get preference to any Captain from outside. Did you honestly compared wow to Air Lingus?
a350pilots is online now  
Old 16th Jan 2018, 20:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 161
Well now Jones or can I call you Simon? Seems you are a bit bitter/don't think seniority should apply to someone of your greatness so you've taken to spreading not very accurate (in fact just plain wrong) information about one of the better operators out there and better operators and employers hiring help to keep pay and T and C's up for mere mortals like the rest of us.

Lots of different nationalities, many now occupying the left seat in accordance with seniority.

Current time to A330 about three years, maybe 7-8 for LHS A320.

Aer Lingus never hire direct entry Captains even sky gods like you, they have a seniority system which would be meaningless if they did hire DECs.

Stop posting embittered nonsense, you have been found out. Keep sniffing around FR and maybe MOL will let you work yourself to death there.
Consol is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 09:47
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 408
Commuting from Europe - free if in uniform as stated above. Just need to ask for JS from captain. Can bid for overnights to minimise time in Ireland although will be at the mercy of the roster gods and relying on swapping with other pilots if you end up with a roster full of early start Dublin duties. Likely you would need to either get a B&B in Dublin for a few nights a week at a minimum. Need to consider being rested before duties as well and the weather gods may not always play their part so you shouldnt be cutting it that fine on your commuting plans.

LHS progression is nowhere like 20 years as stated by the idiot above. 2-3 years has seen some of the more recent joiners onto the 330 which makes commuting much more bearable. Commands currently around the 10 year mark. Have been lower during periods of expansion and management tell us that it will drop below the 10 years significantly with the planned Atlantic expansion. In anycase sitting in the RHS of a 330 going across the pond once a week is probably the best gig in the airline so I wouldnt see it as a negative waiting your turn according to seniority.

The lack of DECs is a positive. If you want a DEC then you need to go and prostitute yourself somewhere else.
MCDU2 is online now  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 10:27
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post

The lack of DECs is a positive. If you want a DEC then you need to go and prostitute yourself somewhere else.
Unbelievable, what a category we are. Itd be nice to see how much youll love being a second officer after decades as a captain if you need to change jobs.
Unreal.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 14:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 393
You have missed the point.
Boeing 7E7 is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 17:20
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 194
Some airlines will need captains, and recruit DEC. Some will have enough FOs to promote from within. Some will lie between the two.

Pay, lifestyle, and time at home are more important to me than time to command. Aer Lingus, on the surface, ticks at least two of the above boxes.

Thanks everyone for the input.
thetimesreader84 is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 09:40
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Moscow Hotel
Posts: 13
Is Aer Lingus still competitive with other legacy carriers?

A starting salary of 41K basic plus flight pay seems on the low side for an experienced ATPL holding applicant, particularly in the current market.

There is no information on their website regarding the package being offered.

How are the rest of the Ts and Cs? Private health/dental insurance? Company provided loss of license and death in service?

How is the staff travel? What are the entitlements for pilots? Are there interline business class agreements for pilots with partner airlines?
PorridgeStirrer is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 17:00
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Age: 51
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
Unbelievable, what a category we are. Itd be nice to see how much youll love being a second officer after decades as a captain if you need to change jobs.
Unreal.
Twenty years, four companies, so I think I am allowed to have an opinion. I have both bypassed others to upgrade in companies without seniority, and most recently I upgraded in company with seniority. I think seniority is more fair to most. Yes, its rough to start over at the bottom after being made captain followed by being made redundant (twice). Starting In my current company I was more experienced than half the captains I flew with. I still think this beats being an fo and not upgrading but DECs coming in above you. There will be times/places where DECs are appropriate, when the fos are not yet qualified, the growth is fast, but for an established company with regular retiring/hiring there should be no DECs.
hans brinker is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 21:41
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: DNS
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by PorridgeStirrer View Post
Is Aer Lingus still competitive with other legacy carriers?

A starting salary of 41K basic plus flight pay seems on the low side for an experienced ATPL holding applicant, particularly in the current market.

There is no information on their website regarding the package being offered.

How are the rest of the Ts and Cs? Private health/dental insurance? Company provided loss of license and death in service?

How is the staff travel? What are the entitlements for pilots? Are there interline business class agreements for pilots with partner airlines?
Hi PS,

There is no health insurance or loss of license provided by the company.

Staff travel is not great in comparison to other airlines. You must choose either your spouse OR your parents as a beneficiary. Only 4 annual buddy passes. Agreements with maybe 15 other airlines, all economy class.
DirectMaxev is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2018, 20:54
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: EU
Posts: 4
Hi there.

The pay can be broken down as follows:

Basic Pay year 1 is 60k euros. After tax and pension contributions this is 38k per annum. This gives a take home of 3160 per month

Sector pay works out on average at 800 net per month.

We also have something called performance pay. Every hour flown over 620 hours in a year, running from October to October, qualifies for performance pay. The hourly rate for FOs is 67. So if you fly 830 hours, you will be paid 210*67=14070 gross. This gives approx 6600 net paid in December. There is also a monthly threshold of 66 hours if you do not make the yearly threshold.

If you choose to bid for overnights then you receive approx 100 net per night away.

You will contribute 11% to the pension while the company contributes 21%.

People do commute from Europe but on a 5:3 pattern but it will be difficult. Time to the 330 is running around 2-2.5 years, which makes commuting very easy. When the Neos arrive next year there will be Atlantic trips on the short haul network.

I hope this helps!
CruiseMonkey is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:51
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: six micro tesla zone
Age: 28
Posts: 375
What is the Annual Leave entitlement in AL?
MaverickPrime is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 11:40
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: EU
Posts: 4
Initially 34 days. Taken in blocks of 5 days in the 5:3 roster pattern. You can also request 3 individual days off for family events etc.
CruiseMonkey is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: FL02
Posts: 128
If someone with, say, 2500hrs joined would they go in at the lowest payscale or an equivalent SFO paypoint?
FullyFullyReady is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 14:45
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Spain
Posts: 43
Is the sector pay not taxed?
nightfright is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 15:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: EU
Posts: 4
All rated pilots join at year 1 of the FO pay scales. Non rated spend a year on the cadet scale before jumping to year 2 FO.

The company has an agreement with Revenue on the taxation of sector pay. All we see is the net figure.
CruiseMonkey is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 15:13
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 18
New entrants will join on point 1 of the pay scale regardless of experience. Non rated entrants join on point 1 of the cadet scale for the first year before moving to point 2 of the FO scale.

Sector pay is taxed but it is paid net of tax, the rates given are the net of tax rate.
EI_DVM is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2018, 21:09
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 408
Leave works on a bidding system. Blocks of leave (single weeks as well as blocks of 2 weeks) are allocated between the "summer" and "winter". Summer isn't exactly as nature would desire as it starts from April as far as I can remember. Each week you are bidding for has a points value attached to it. The attractive weeks encompassing school holidays, public holidays, Easter etc all attract low points so if you are successful in bidding for these weeks then your points total will be low. You accumulate points with your bids and from memory it works on a rolling weighted average basis so if you have a few years of effectively crap leave then you will start building up a decent points balance which will then put you in a stronger position to get the weeks you want. But as you are bidding against your colleagues its not unheard of to get lucky and score good leave with low length of service/points depending on what they are bidding for. Also 1 weeks leave is actually 11 days due to the 5/3 roster pattern. eg: FFFLLLLLFFF. If you get creative and organise a few swaps then you can get a decent amount of time off if you are that way inclined.

There is also reserve leave which you can bid for. After all the leave is allocated based on the above you put your name in and its effectively a first in first out system if the company finds that there is an excess of crews for certain weeks prior to roster production.

You can swap leave as well as swapping rostered duties. There are other types of leave for weddings and day off requests with various rules pertaining to them to avoid abuse by either side. Once your successful just ask the guy/gal you are flying with or read up for yourself the various leave agreements.

In the past few years there have been the occassional chance to bid for short periods of unpaid leave during the winter when we have had a surplus of crews. Many of the new FOs have availed of this to escape the European winter and go travelling. You will get ID90s on most of the major airlines in the world.

Last edited by MCDU2; 12th Apr 2018 at 21:20.
MCDU2 is online now  
Old 19th Apr 2018, 20:42
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Greece
Posts: 7
Reading the AL requirements and the topics about low hour pilots I had one question. Is it possible for a millitary pilot, without cargo/transportation experience, to be considered for FO?
freesail is offline  
Old 4th Jul 2018, 08:49
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Posts: 34
Retirement

At what age do EI pilots retire, I have really struggled to find this anywhere! I have seen historically it is 55, but any updates?

My current airline it is 65, but the majority of line Captains beyond 55 are part time, so is there scope for that? Two long haul trips a month would be the sweet spot in my late 50s.

if enforced retirement is at 55, is there contract work available to continue flying? Cheers
daveandg is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.