gbotley

As a trainee pilot mid-way through my course at one of EZY's feeder schools, the recent announcement of a new EZY AOC provides me with both relief and anxiety.

I say the former for the fact it both safeguards one of Europe's largest airlines from the bite of Brexit and also provides some security for those already working at the airline.

I say the latter as I, like many others, am now unsure of what this could mean for employability prospects at the carrier. Does anybody on PPRuNE have any internal insight into what this could mean because as I understand it employees will be transferred to new contracts under the new organisation. If my understanding is therefore correct one can hope it not end up like EZY Swiss whereby an individual requires links to the registered nation to seek employment. What's more, it's slightly more worrisome as a British national because this change has more of an impact on me than some of my French / German peers whom fit the "Right to work in the EU" bracket.

It would be great if someone could shed some light on it. I'm due to finish my course March 2018 so fingers crossed I avoid any of the true impact of employment rights stuff.

Thanks in advance chaps/ladies.

Daysleeper

So lets keep freedom of movement of workers?

Arewerunning

I thought UK was ONE COUNTRY...(sorry Scotland and Wales)

ManUtd1999

The way I see it is there are two linked but separate issues here:

1) Will UK citizens have the right to work in the EU post-Brexit.

Unfortunately nobody knows how this will play out, current negotiations seem fixed around current expats. If Britain insists on an end to free movement then I would expect the EU to do the same. Pilots may then require visas and 'EZY Europe' would be restricted to hiring mostly EU pilots. Even if visas were easy to obtain then you could imagine a strong preference for EU candidates being put in place.

2) Will EZY base transfers be possible between 'EZY UK' and 'EZY Europe'?

At least in the short term this is unaffected by Brexit and has maybe been talked about internally? At present I understand that moving UK-France/Italy etc is relatively straight-forward (if there's space) but moving UK-Switzerland is rarer and more complex as it's a separate legal company. If the new 'EZY Europe' operates like 'EZY Swiss' then placements in the continental bases for cadets and experienced pilots alike might become less common.

In summary, lots of ifs buts and maybes I personally can't see how EZY's new European entitity is going to be a positive for their UK pilot recruitment but I hope to be proved wrong.

Denti

Dunno about brits in other countries, those in my company are currently getting their german citizenship, which is a quite simple affair as they are still EU citizens. And dual citizenship is no problem as the UK allows that as well. With that it wouldn't be a problem to keep working wherever you are, whole EU or the UK.

lederhosen

Denti that may be because they have already lived in Germany long enough to meet the residence requirements. A quick scan of the internet suggests that most countries require you to have lived there for a number of years (Austria apparently 10) before applying for citizenship. There does seem to be some doubt as to how Brexit will affect britons in this situation.

EVS1

So now that easyjet has this new AOC in Austria, will they still ask to convert the licence to UK?
For easyjet pilots based in Spain, France or Italy for example?

kungfu panda

The future for British Pilots in Easyjet and other British Airlines is far more uncertain than is suggested by the optimistic posts above. Until there is a deal, no deal still being very possible, it looks likely that the UK will drop out of the transportation agreement. The repercussions of that situation would probably be very serious as scheduled flights from the UK into Europe would be subject to bilateral agreements and opposed vehemently by foreign flag carriers and Ryanair. I also don't see airlines lifting the right to live and work in the EU as being an prerequisite to most LCC jobs.

I understand that bilateral agreements work both ways but there will be long term vehement legal opposition from parties such as Air France, Lufthansa etc who already have their bilateral in place and who would have a great opportunity to restrict opposition.

Binder

Most if not all licenses are now EASA so no change required...

Also terms and conditions for Euro crews not expected to change but no doubt pilot rep groups will keep a close eye on Company shenanigans!

EAM

Well, easyjet asks you to convert your license into a UK license, which is a problem if you hold a german license.
And having an EASA license doesn´t mean that every TRE can sign your license, in fact it was easier before.

lederhosen

The only thing that is clear is that the situation post Brexit remains very unclear. The astonishing thing is how many people directly affected by it voted in favour of leaving. The exchange rate trend of the pound seems a pretty good reflection on the direction things are moving.

monkey.tennis

EasyJet Europe will be no different to the current set up. There will be various EU bases on local terms and conditions. Almost nothing will change, except the aircraft will be Austrian registered rather than UK.

Post brexit, easyJet is in exactly the same position as every other airline flying EU to UK routes.

gbotley

Valid points, but aren't all EU states a party of the bilateral ICAO Convention to which the freedoms of the air must then apply? In such a case easyJet UK flying into Europe and say, Wizz Air flying into the UK would be permitted. The concern comes with EU to EU domestic operations from a non-EU carrier to which easyJet Europe's new AOC bypasses with supposed "Cabotage" being allowed to continue? Your point on a ban on British carriers entry into the European Union would be unlawful by these rules unless i'm unaware of something here - feel free to say.

But nevertheless, this point is off topic. The topic relates to employability of Brits with the new setup. I've since heard publicly and privately from around five crew members to say things appear to be remaining the same - for now at least. Of course, easyJet is only one carrier to which a newly qualified pilot could apply to and many of the remaining are not as badly affected. It's an interesting point to bring up nonetheless.

kungfu panda

Sorry but there's a lot of ignorance around. If Britain is not party to the transportation agreement then operation between the UK and Europe or Europe to the UK is not possible with scheduled flights on day one post brexit (except where bilateral agreements previously existed i.e the flag carriers). Bilateral route agreements will need to be made and as I said previously, they would be legally opposed by European Airlines.

kungfu panda

Unfortunately you are not correct. Our current right to operate from the UK to EU airports are governed by the EU Transportation agreement and have nothing to do with ICAO. ICAO will allow us overflight rights, I believe under the Chicago convention but no landing rights.

Unless we remain signed up to the ECJ, which is a red line no (for the current government), then we must leave the transportation agreement.

gbotley

Then in that case I would happily stand corrected - perhaps they should teach that in Air Law then eh! Do you have any links on the Transportation Agreement in question.. would be interested to take a look. It's at times like this I wish I held another European citizenship. It continues to amaze me how so many in this very industry voted leave.

Skyjob

Think a little bit of realism is required by this author, you see:
1) UK opts to go out of EU;
1.1) UK opts to get out of free movement of people;
1.2) UK opts to get out of rights to work in all EU countries;
1.3) UK opts to prevent EU citizens taking UK jobs;
1.4) UK wants to retain rights for UK citizens to take EU jobs and move inside EU(?);
2) UK allows EU nationals to stay in UK jobs already employed;
2.1) UK does not allow new EU nationals to move to UK for jobs;
3) EU allows UK nationals to stay in EU jobs already employed;
3.1) EU does not allow new UK nationals to move to EU for jobs;
3.1.1) This includes moving between EU countries as that is what EU stands for;

I personally can't see the problem being an EU national that movement between countries for UK citizens in future is restricted, after all UK wants to get out of EU for restricting reciprocal movements into UK by EU nationals.

Let's remember that existing citizens working in EU/UK are not affected.
Looks like UK want to get out of EU but reap benefits of EU membership.
Why should UK citizens bear benefits of EU when UK is not wanting to be part of EU anymore?

Skyjob

I did.
- It does NOT say Brits cannot work in the ONE EU country they are already in, it just says they cannot move to another.
- Nor does it say EU nationals are allowed to move into UK, just that they retain their right to stay if already in UK.

Same rule no problem, but why should EU allow UK nationals to move throughout EU like currently possible when EU nationals will not be allowed to move into UK as that is what Brexit was all about, protecting UK jobs for UK people...

gbotley

In such a situation presumably visas would become the new norm?

ManUtd1999

I expect so. For UK nationals, any chance of working for EZY Europe hinges on how easy it is to get one. Maybe they'll make it simple (especially if it's essentially a transfer within the same overall company), maybe they won't. Maybe there'll be new rules about only working in an industry where they are short of qualified locals, speaking the language, or having a family connection.Nobody knows as yet.