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EasyJet "for the love of flying" DEC

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EasyJet "for the love of flying" DEC

Old 13th Jul 2017, 20:02
  #21 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
Thanks for the info guys. BA is a great company and I would recommend them for most people, it's not for everyone and not everyone has the same deal and that's what causes my issue. I won't bore with the details but Rex Banner knows the issue and it does not affect anyone who is looking to join as DEP. Rostering is the problem but it sounds like EZY would have different issues. More money etc but Gatwick would be tough long term. If it were a short wait for a regional base I think I would be there in a heart beat if they would have me.
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 09:14
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 2,323
I assume everybody here is interested only in being based in the uk.

Because the good orange contracts are definitely in mainland europe, not on the island.
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 09:34
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
I for one am only interested in being based "on the island" but I am sure plenty of other people will be interested in discussing details of other bases.
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 09:57
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 316
EasyJet sets up new airline in Austria to protect flights post Brexit | Reuters
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 22:13
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Rostering - 5 lates, 4 off, 5 earlies, 3 off. 28 days reserve (flexi roster) once every 5 months roughly.
Have they done away with transitions then?

Transitions are when they turn some of your earlies into lates and vv which makes an utter nonsense of the above stable, logical sounding pattern. They are seriously disruptive to one's lifestyle and rest pattterns and when I left not long ago were at some bases more the norm than the exception.
Origin? Over a period of years BALPA had negotiated the roster pattern quoted as random rostering and day by day roster chages were killing us and eventually gained it at considerable cost in concessions elsewhere. * The company found they hated the "loss of flexibility". Soon thereafter "transitions" appeared where lates were found in early week and vv, and were often applied as changes after roster publication too. The excuse given was that the agreement was merely a preferred framework or some such weaselling bullshine and nowhere had the company signed to say they couldn't put earlies into late week etc etc. BALPA were blindsided by this - who would have guessed such trickery would result from the long awaited and agreed stable roster pattern? Not BALPA, that's for sure but they were hardly to balme for not anticipating such a callous deception.

You are dealing with the hardest-nosed bean-counters in the business and they will extract anything they can from you if necessary, always backed up by a surprised and indignant sounding, "But it's perfectly legal" to justify it's safety and thus unquestionable acceptability.

There's lots that's good about Easy but honest adherence to union/company agreements and recognising the need for a sustainable lifestyle has not been a widely recognizable feature. People mean very little, you are easily replaceable. Its much worse for cc.

* At the same agreement they introduced "flexi month". To aid roster stability the requirement for 20% standby cover was built in to the pattern with a month of solid standby, just days off rostered in ones and twos - ie pretty useless for recovery but on a month of SBY with a proportion of not being called was probably acceptable. The SBY month lasted no time at all and almost immediately morphed into a month of nigh-on solid random rostering. ie exactly what the agreement had been set up to avoid. Again, the answer was that nothing in the agreement had said they couldn't break their word and do that!
Flexi rostering is a euphemism for a month of debilitating random rostering with few SBY - and in my experience they always turned into duties. It isn't fun.

Last edited by noflynomore; 16th Jul 2017 at 11:13.
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Old 16th Jul 2017, 11:23
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 243
I work a 4/3 average alternating between earlies and lates, we always get at least two days between an early and a late, sometimes four, unless we choose to do overtime. Even so, the first early is an absolute killer for most due to the difficulties of getting to sleep when going to bed earlier.

How on earth is combining earlies and lates in the same week with no rest days even remotely safe? ASLEF at my place would never allow it, why do BALPA?
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Old 16th Jul 2017, 12:37
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 316
Strangely the old CAP371 UK FTL allowed and forced this by default. BALPA won't like you
for pointing this out Chris....
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Old 16th Jul 2017, 12:57
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 243
In which case, I suppose the blame lies largely with the regulator, would be tricky (as far as I'm aware) for BALPA to do much about it since they'd have to be in dispute with all UK-based airlines at the same time it was introduced.

Haven't got the time to read the entire document but I must admit I'm surprised that the regulator allows it. Mind you, they allow loads of other things which I think a lot of pilots would say they shouldn't (P2F etc.).
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 23:59
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EU
Posts: 107
Generally the rumour for UK bases is that you should get 75% contracts within 12 - 18 months.

You will not find all you like in one company, you need to make compromises of what is most important for your personal lifestyle.

If you like to be home most nights, and you can work 75% or 50%, than it's not a bad job. There are a lot worse jobs out there.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 00:05
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chateau d'If
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A most interesting discussion. I think there are some wise words here from ex-easyJet guys, although I have to say their experience is not mine. I have flown for easyJet for 13 years (just gone part-time). If you are a young lad/lass, then really BA is the only game in town. It is a great company - despite Alex Cruz. EasyJet have been very good to me overall, but there is a huge amount of roster disruption in the summer (effectively July and August, but occasionally outside those two months as well). That said, we fly lots of new aircraft, have much more fun SOPs (you get to fly your own approaches!), and there is a great atmosphere between the pilots and cabin crew. The big selling point for easyJet is the known days off years in advance, and very few night stops. Despite some of the warnings on here, I have personally never had a single difficult discussion with a crewing officer in 13 years and never once been sent away unexpectedly. Under the new deal just agreed with BALPA today a UK captain's basic will be around 103k plus around 15k in allowances. The BA pension is much better (easyJet put in 7%). I have personally known of two pilots who left BA (not at 55 and retiring) to join easyJet. One was delighted he had done it and the other said that in the end he regretted it. I am accused of being too pro-easyJet, but I think I am just a realist. Next to a national carrier, I think we are about as good as it gets. BA is, however, a great national carrier and you should not underestimate how good a company it is. In the final analysis, I think there are six reasons to come to easyJet from BA but many reasons not to. The reasons to come are:

1. Very few night stops, so you get home most nights.
2. 5/3/5/4 roster pattern that means you can predict your days off.
3. Good basic salary for captains.
4. Quick command relative to the likely wait now at BA.
5. The implementation next year of the 'preferential bidding system' like the one currently in easyJet's Italian bases. This allows you to choose lates or earlier as you wish.
6. Great share schemes that have netted a lot of money for the people who have bought into them.

Offsetting that, the reasons not to come here are:

1. Much more unstable rosters compared to BA.
2. Lack of opportunity to move out of short haul.
3. Long waits for commands at the regional bases due to oversubscribed transfer lists.
4. Cumulative fatigue over many years (maybe everyone has that!) for people not going part-time. .
5. Poorer pension than BA.
6. Terrible crew food!
7. No seniority list which means you never really escape the terrible duties - they just keep coming round!

Others may disagree, but that is how I see it. It would be a huge decision to leave BA and not one to take likely. That said, if you really want to do it, then we are about as good as it gets in the low cost business.
Count of Monte Bisto is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 00:38
  #31 (permalink)  
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 950
Nice post.

I'm in the BA hold pool but not sure any of us will ever get a call. I'd come to Easy as a DEC if I didn't have to pay for the type rating?! How is it Easy charge for this still yet Ryanair don't. Granted in Ryanair you're bonded for 5 years and have 5k less salary per year for those 5 years to pay for it, but at least you don't have to shell out the money yourself upfront.

Wish Easy would consider something similar.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 09:08
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 765
Great balanced view from The Count. I joined easy as DEC not that long ago, having worked for a few other airlines. Yes it's not perfect (but no airline is!) and can honestly say that it's a lot better than quite a lot of whats on offer out there these days. For me it has turned out to be a really good decision and I am enjoying my time here. Whilst there is a fair bit of roster instability at the moment, especially being at the biggest base, I knew what I was getting myself into. Operationally it's a really nice working environment, I'm allowed to be a Captain again and everything isn't micro-managed in the same way as some other places. On top of that being directly employed, with a pension, LOL & share scheme is way better than being forced to be self-employed or work through an agency.

From the TR point of view, whilst not ideal, it does seem to be the way of the world and it comes down to a personal decision. However as a DEC you can claim it against tax in the UK and therefore ends up costing a lot less that the RYR option quoted above even if you do have to pay up front. Also I believe that some people may not have had to pay the TR in the past if they agreed to go to some of the less popular bases.
FlyboyUK is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 09:30
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hang on, let me check the FMS...
Posts: 195
There seems to be some good balanced advice on this thread which is refreshing for this forum!

Can someone shed some light on the terms of self funding the TR for a UK DEC?

Very little information seems to be out there on the internet.

How much do easy Charge?
Are you paid a salary during the TR?
How much uk tax relief do you get on the TR cost?
Where do you do the TR? I guess you have to stump up the cost for the accommodation as well.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:00
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 765
FlyingTinCans feel free to DM me
FlyboyUK is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:51
  #35 (permalink)  
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 950
I wouldn't mind the answers to those 4 questions too - although I think the answer to the 4th is CAE Stockholm?!
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:48
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: LGW
Posts: 1,009
Guy and girls, just keep in mind the contract terms and conditions were just being discussed for the UK AOC.
Similar good contracts are been given in Italy and France.
On the other hand, read carefully your contract for PMI, BCN, AMS, LIS and OPO. Some people had been quite disappointing, especially when it comes to transferring out.
a350pilots is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 12:35
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kent,
Posts: 15
How much do easy Charge?
Type rating is done at CAE, but is arranged through a norwegian outfit called Luftfarhtskolen. The cost is charged in Euros costing 25,200.

Are you paid a salary during the TR?
Yes, from the first day of the TR. According to the contract you get 90% pay for the first 6 months.

How much uk tax relief do you get on the TR cost?

Where do you do the TR? I guess you have to stump up the cost for the accommodation as well.
Stockholm is generally used for DEC and DEP. The UK sims are pretty much maxed out just doing renewals. Accommodation and flights are provided by Easyjet.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 13:02
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: F410
Posts: 36
A couple of corrections. The contract now says you will be paid 100% salary from day 1 rather than 90% for 6 months.

Some have successfully claimed the type rating as an employment expense (rightly so I would say!)
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:23
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 145
Great post Count. I am also in the BA pool but have decided to stay at easy. To me the seniority list wait for a shot at command is the killer.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 23:37
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Room 506
Posts: 68
Please could someone fill me in with the approx monthly pay for LTN/LGW FO.

And, if I make the move it's based on attaining a shot at cmd at about the 2 year mark. Is this realistic?

Any other info on the package is much appreciated. PPJN is pretty vague. Many thanks.
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