Thomas Cook-Beware
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Hostage to geographical fortune.
Read again as that's not what I said. More hours of work for less pay sums it up. I would be very unhappy to purchase a ticket on a national carrier to subsequently discover an ACMI arrangement had me flying with cheap crew at the pointy end..
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,731
Likes: 53
From: World
Shady assessment practices, P2F (ab)use, training virtually non existant and shameful T&C do seem to point in that direction, yes.
Only desperate applicants would consider such an employer.
Not the same can be said for Thomas Cook.
I would be hesitant to put my family on a plane, knowing they operate the flight, I have no shame to admit it.
Only desperate applicants would consider such an employer.
Not the same can be said for Thomas Cook.
I would be hesitant to put my family on a plane, knowing they operate the flight, I have no shame to admit it.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Earth
I can't comment on avion express, I can on smartlynx though.
P2F doesn't exist in the airline. T&C? I have definitely seen and know of worse and pilots aren't on the breadline. Assessment? It's a standard assessment from what I saw, not everyone was accepted who attended and they took lower than the number they set out to take.
There is a good atmosphere around the airline and crews are upbeat. Trying to defame the airline wouldn't be appreciated ...
P2F doesn't exist in the airline. T&C? I have definitely seen and know of worse and pilots aren't on the breadline. Assessment? It's a standard assessment from what I saw, not everyone was accepted who attended and they took lower than the number they set out to take.
There is a good atmosphere around the airline and crews are upbeat. Trying to defame the airline wouldn't be appreciated ...
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 136
From: Commuting not home
(The nasty 3's) T&Cs are better by a good margin compared to Eurowings / Vueling for captains, more or less the same as Easy / FR for FOs in the first three years. Smartlynx crew are staying at the same hotel where BALPA holds a venue today.
Know your enemy, it may not be the crews, or the even not the other provider at all. Like the P2F chaps: most of them did not take that road due to being incompetent, rather because in 2 year term it is about 50k GBP cheaper than the "honorable and all-legal" ab-initio+TR cadet schemes.
In my home airline case it was our inapt political management, and onslaught of aviod-social-security competition, we lost. Superpilot above comes across as a voice of reason.
Know your enemy, it may not be the crews, or the even not the other provider at all. Like the P2F chaps: most of them did not take that road due to being incompetent, rather because in 2 year term it is about 50k GBP cheaper than the "honorable and all-legal" ab-initio+TR cadet schemes.
In my home airline case it was our inapt political management, and onslaught of aviod-social-security competition, we lost. Superpilot above comes across as a voice of reason.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: London
I joined a UK airline at the same time as a chap from Smart Lynx, unfortualtly for him he did not get through the Sim transition phase and he was already rated. I was there and I can say although he was not treated particulaly well his performance was well below the level expected at most professional airlines. After being released by said Airline he returned immediately to Smart Lynx, its fair to say they did not have the same standards, take from that what you will.
Last edited by Enzo999; 17th July 2017 at 14:44.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Hostage to geographical fortune.
From the erstwhile and much esteemed Officer Kite on the 17th.
I could not possibly imply such a warped and maligned perspective. But strap oneself, cherished wife (or partner of choice) and the tribe of wee kiddies in the back and let an errant engine have its wicked way at VI. Who do you want in the left seat? A Thomas Cook regular or a Euro-type substitute? ACMI is a minefield. It does however cause one to ponder.
Are you suggesting the crew of Smartlynx or Avion Express are inferior in their capabilities?
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Is there a correlation between ACMI crews being less safe than a 'regular' crew? Have there been any studies to suggest so? Are they held to a lower standard in obtaining and further maintaining their AOC obligations?
Or is it that you think someone not from England can possibly be as good?
This is interesting ...
Or is it that you think someone not from England can possibly be as good?
This is interesting ...
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Just ran a quick search on avherald for excursion, nothing for anything on the specified types of operators, granted it is global, it still covers most of what goes on in Europe. I do however see plenty of air canada and delta mentioned ...
By your statement one would expect to see a full list of cowboy excursions and incidences compared to others. The facts suggest otherwise.
By your statement one would expect to see a full list of cowboy excursions and incidences compared to others. The facts suggest otherwise.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: England
Officer Kite is desperately trying to validate his decision to join a cadet scheme feeding an ACMI "airline", having failed selection for at least one proper airline scheme. I'd strongly suggest you wind your neck in and let the grown ups talk until you have a bit of experience in the industry.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
In a nutshell we were offered a 1.5% increase which is substantially below the paycut taken 5 years ago. That was in the region of 10% which the company said it would reinstate when profitable.
All this against a backdrop of management bonuses. Usual story.
All this against a backdrop of management bonuses. Usual story.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 6
From: Here
I joined a UK airline at the same time as a chap from Smart Lynx, unfortualtly for him he did not get through the Sim transition phase and he was already rated. I was there and I can say although he was not treated particulaly well his performance was well below the level expected at most professional airlines. After being released by said Airline he returned immediately to Smart Lynx, its fair to say they did not have the same standards, take from that what you will.
Maybe when you start flying Officer Kite you will know what kind of characters end up in such an airline......
It is no ones first choice to go to fly for any ACMI when you have no idea what your doing or where your going month to month, sometimes day to day and usually people do it as a matter of desperation when they have no other options and don't be fooled other wise.
The standards to pass their selection and their training departments, compared to the rest is not even on the same level.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: UK
Obviously before pre merger into TCX, but wasn't this person still kept on the company because he was related to the CEO and subsequently moved onto the A330
Report: My Travel A320 at Kos on Jul 5th 2007, very hard landing
Report: My Travel A320 at Kos on Jul 5th 2007, very hard landing
Last edited by Heathrow09L; 11th August 2017 at 15:19.
