PIC hours as Cruise/Relief Captain
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These discussions occur every 28 days ( or is it 30?) and always ends in the same drama.
I agree wholeheartedly, hence:
If only there was an organisation that harmonised the way these things should be done
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What if you have an FO who was flying as a CPT in a previous company, maybe even on the same type, he then logs all is PF as PIC, come on you can't be serious with that.
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From the input it appears an FO in FAA world could end up with 1000s of PIC hrs on type without having done an upgrade course or be shown the the schedule as PIC? Really is la la land! In simple terms one pilot is designated Captain for the leg and if you don't hold the rank of Captain it should not be claimed as PIC.. The phrase PIC refers to more than just sitting in the chair, it is an authority given by the airline and a legal responsibility given by the licensing authority . The authority of the Commander is clearly written in airline OMA and doesn't mention transferring that authority just "tasks" if the. Commander is incapacitated etc.
Last edited by Avenger; 31st May 2017 at 09:38. Reason: More complete
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In simple terms one pilot is designated Captain for the leg and if you don't hold the rank of Captain it should not be claimed as PIC.
I'm not sure how the FAA system is justifiable. How on earth can you have more than one pilot in command?
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I would argue that is actually not the intended aim of the EASA regulation. Yes, there can only one commander per flight, however, no, he doesn't have to be in the operating seat. For example for a large part of a command course the commander will sit on the jump seat, while the trainee sits in the left seat.
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Here, during the command course, the training captain is only the designated commander when he sits in an operating seat (i.e. RHS). When the training captain is on the jumpseat, the LHS pilot (i.e. the trainee) is the designated commander.
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Under FAA there is such a thing as SIC type rating.
Anyway, when flying with an instructor both log PIC.
When an applicant flies with an examiner both log PIC.
Europe or the U.K. rather are the ones that muddy the water with
PIC
SPIC
PICUS
If you're qualified to fly the plane you log it as PIC when you're flying the plane.
In FAA land.
I'm bowing out.
These discussions occur every 28 days ( or is it 30?) and always ends in the same drama.
Look up your countries regs and save some bandwith.
JHTFC
Anyway, when flying with an instructor both log PIC.
When an applicant flies with an examiner both log PIC.
Europe or the U.K. rather are the ones that muddy the water with
PIC
SPIC
PICUS
If you're qualified to fly the plane you log it as PIC when you're flying the plane.
In FAA land.
I'm bowing out.
These discussions occur every 28 days ( or is it 30?) and always ends in the same drama.
Look up your countries regs and save some bandwith.
JHTFC
For anyone that just wants to answer the question: I know there is an SiC rating, what differentiates a "SiC type rating" from a "PiC rating"?
Who carries the can if something goes belly-up?
Since you've further muddied the water, however, what countries allow a student pilot to log PiC alongside their instructor???
If the "applicant" fails his flight test with the examiner, do they both still log PiC?
It's hard to imagine separating each category as per Europe, is an example of muddy water, when the FAA just lumps all of them in together!
ad absurdism, can a Second Officer (yes, parts of the world have them) log PiC on a heavy jet that they hold a "full" type rating on - if they are PF? Is this, or was this the intent?
Instead of feeling the need to defend the FAA and/or your country, the "...that's not particularly logical though is it?", was actually an (admittedly obtuse) attempt to engage your thoughts on the subject. It's not actually a "drama", just tangential development of a discussion...
They may pop up every airac cycle, my cycle is more like 15 years and I'm constantly reminded why....
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Look up your countries regs and save some bandwith.
The 'sole manipulator' guff clearly only applies to single pilot aircraft
61.51e refers to two pilot aircraft in a separate paragraph. It requires that you be actual PIC, or on an approved PIC training program AND the actual PIC must sign your logbook to show instruction given. (IE: exactly what is known in EASA as PIC/us.)
The bottom line is: If you're an FO then everything is SIC whether you flew it or not.
61.51e refers to two pilot aircraft in a separate paragraph. It requires that you be actual PIC, or on an approved PIC training program AND the actual PIC must sign your logbook to show instruction given. (IE: exactly what is known in EASA as PIC/us.)
The bottom line is: If you're an FO then everything is SIC whether you flew it or not.
