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And the Best A320 Contract in Europe is?

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And the Best A320 Contract in Europe is?

Old 4th Mar 2019, 10:35
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 421
Originally Posted by captain.weird View Post
What about commuting from West Europe? Anyone doing that with AL or is BA/VS a better option?
Some try, for some it works for others its a failure. We don't have commuting rosters and I haven't seen any appetite from management to go down this path to retain foreign pilots (we lose quite a few that join after a while as they logically want to be close to home). We have a preferential bidding rostering system which sometimes gives you what you want and other times not. There is little transparency on why it works or fails but you can email someone if you can be bothered. The commuters are mainly on the longhaul who have a different rostering system and days off following a trip. Those commuting on short haul will invariably bid for as many overnights away from Dublin as possible to reduce accommodation costs (you are not in any way guaranteed these as they are highly sought after from contracting commuters as well as the young FOs). Rosters can be "Friday changed" for the following week (Monday to Sunday) but your published FREE days cannot be changed. We work a 5 on 3 off roster but a few times a year this can be reduced to 5/2 for a month. Also our network and pairings is not as extensive as someone like BA so bear in mind that you may finish a rostered duty and miss your last flight home or find that during winter we have reduced frequency. If you are starting a week of earlies which typically have reporting times around 0600 then you will need to be in the night previous. The reverse happens on lates where you will most likely miss the last flight home on your day 5 so will be commuting on your days off. It would be very difficult to try and organise a swap to finish early on a series of late duties to facilitate you going home if there is a flight due to FTLs and rest periods (assuming the other person is willing to swap). Its your responsibility to be in work for reporting time and missing a connection due to snow, late arrivals, cancellations etc won't be tolerated by management. All of these factors will have an influence on whether you can or are prepared for the potential stress of trying to organise swaps to make your roster work.

Bear in mind that EI is an Irish airline and is managed out of Dublin although we have a small flight crew base in Cork. You need to appreciate this fact if you intend on joining. Its entire thought process is essentially Dublin centric and its always been that way. Most foreigners that join tend to find that its just as easy to set up roots here in Ireland than it is to mess about stressing over your roster from month to month. Problem therein is the high costs of living. Before joining run the numbers through an online tax calculator and do a google search on cost of living in Dublin.

On the plus side - commuting can be free if you can make it work. You can JS in uniform anywhere on our network so long as the Captain gives approval.

Last edited by MCDU2; 4th Mar 2019 at 10:45.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 18:51
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 119
321LRs in a couple of years? ---- This Summer, in 2019

Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post
They'll be doing 321LR runs to NYC, BOS etc in a couple of years if that's people's thing.
2 A321LRs this summer I understand, more for winter and more again for 2020.
LH is about a 2 year wait and commuters tend to opt for West Coast US....LAX, SFO, SEA which are 3 day trips followed by 4 days off.
If you're senior enough you can go West on a Monday, back Wed midday, commute home and have Thurs - Sun at home.
Depending on check-in for next trip you may have to travel on Sunday to be in place to operate West on the Monday, most try and swap for a later check-in.

Yes..housing is expensive and tax is high, can't help you there but watch that space in UK shortly.
However, who else is offering the EI pilot pay-scale (PPJN is accurate) along with a DB final salary pension scheme with a 21% company contribution?
We don't have B747s.....so if you are set on flying them your choice is narrow and we haven't got 380s either, sorry nothing with more than 2 engines.
Nearly all recent departures have been pilots returning to their country of birth.
Some new joiners have come from BA to EI for the same reason.
Wide spectrum of new guys from the Desert, former residents of Iceland, 737 LCCs (blue & red) and regionals.

If anyone wants details pm me and I will attempt to get chapter & verse.
Best wishes to those looking for the home of their choice.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 17:14
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 162
Ladies and Gents,

Any thoughts on the thread/subject after the recent bankruptcies and a few more to come, I'm afraid...? Me, personally stopped looking in Euroland...

Cheers,

Booze
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 17:48
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,609
The people from past 24 months’ bankruptcies hardly changed anything on the european market as there’s been more than enough expansion to hoover up the surplus. Plus you will always have some % heading to asia and ME.

CP
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 18:09
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by Maxfli View Post

Yes..housing is expensive and tax is high, can't help you there but watch that space in UK shortly.
when you say watch that space...???
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 20:15
  #46 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 41
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp View Post
The people from past 24 months’ bankruptcies hardly changed anything on the european market as there’s been more than enough expansion to hoover up the surplus. Plus you will always have some % heading to asia and ME.
Expansion in terms of Eurowings and Wizzair salaries is not really a gigantic leap in the right direction. I understand that EZY (with good commuting options and part time) at Berlin has stopped / filled about 2 months ago, not sure about other bases. Thus for the SA fleet, if wanting to stay living home the best EU contract is probably Beijing Capital (leaving HNA Group soon) on 4/4 wks.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 21:53
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fl410
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Expansion in terms of Eurowings and Wizzair salaries is not really a gigantic leap in the right direction. I understand that EZY (with good commuting options and part time) at Berlin has stopped / filled about 2 months ago, not sure about other bases. Thus for the SA fleet, if wanting to stay living home the best EU contract is probably Beijing Capital (leaving HNA Group soon) on 4/4 wks.
whats wrong woth the eurowings contract?
they paid my type and I start with 4300euro, plus around 400-500 per diem per month. Home every night and at least 10 days of per month. Parttime options available.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 23:31
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 1,672
There you are, 4300 gross a month and 10 days off a month is now considered good. Self-explanatory really.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 13:15
  #49 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Age: 41
Posts: 2,560
@sekmeth: Are the figures you quote netto after all applicable single person's tax, for an F/O position at 750 hrs/y?
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 14:45
  #50 (permalink)  
VJW
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Originally Posted by dirk85 View Post
There you are, 4300 gross a month and 10 days off a month is now considered good. Self-explanatory really.
Guess youíre assuming thatís a gross figure - which it may well be. Probably ok for me to then assume that as he/she brought up the fact eurowings paid for their type rating, theyíre also a cadet/newly qualified pilot.

Exactly how much do you think newbies should be getting paid? 4300 gross a month plus about 5000/yr in per diem is probably on par (if not more) with what BA pay their whitetail cadets?

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Old 11th Apr 2019, 15:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
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BA is not exactly setting the bar very high when talking about pilot salaries, let's be honest.
We are talking about the best contracts in Europe in this thread, and 4300 gross might be average in the f***ed up state the industry is in the old continent, but should not even enter the discussion when talking about the best conditions.

We could write pages on what each of us consider the minimum acceptable for this job, but considering the investment required, the amount of stress, fatigue, the continuous checking and training required, moving from one side of the world to the other, personally I would not be happy to accept anything less than 4000/4500 after taxes plus pension and benefits, and that's for a FO without that much experience. An FO with 10 years of experience or more should look for (much) more than that, obviously.
I am not saying one should refuse 4300 gross a month as first job, but settling on that kind of money, and considering that good and industry-leading conditions, that's another story, and probably one of the reasons things will not improve anytime soon.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 15:30
  #52 (permalink)  
VJW
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 777
Another reason being the ideology that just because you forked out £100k in training youíre suddenly entitled to certain T&Cís. Think itís safe to say you enjoy exaggerating a bit. To be clear, they didnít say that was a gross figure and certainly didnít say it was the top possible earnings on the RHS in Eurowings. They actually said thatís what they Ďstartí on. My gut reaction was that itís wasnít too bad to start with and they were only defending Eurowings from an earlier comment. For some reason youíre assuming a lot in the glass half empty direction. Personally having flown for over 10 years of which 6 have been on the left I find the job easy. Ok sometimes itís windy and icy on landing but planning properly tends to nullify the stress. Continuous training and checking? The handful of sims a year (which I find are beneficial to me more than my employer), a yearly medical and (for me now) a line check every other year is hardly demanding. Letís be honest on a normal sector- what % of the job is stressing you out?

FWIW if I fly with a FO with 10 years experience now, alarm bells start to ring long before I worry about what they make.

I remember a time my ex was unemployed for a short spell and on the phone with someone regarding her unemployment benefit. When that person asked her how many hours her partner worked a week, she was told that I too could claim unemployment (or jobseekers) benefit. Wouldnít have been wise to do so while also making a 6 figure salary but hopefully you get the point...

Last edited by VJW; 11th Apr 2019 at 15:43.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 15:57
  #53 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 41
Posts: 2,560
A320 TR should not deduct more than 400 EUR/mth over a three-year apprentice period.
6 figures is 9k/month, we're getting not excited about half that.
BTW I was pulling a mickey, and sekmeth actually being ironic I suppose, since the word is that Laudamotion on a weak month does not hit 5k netto for PIC.

RYR is a good, middle-of-the-field benchmark looking at salaries/days off. Same EZY on the GER/IT/FR/UK contracts, market forces fully deployed. A peek at LEVEL Austria on PPJN, probably same as EW and WZ, reveals almost 2-3 k EUR net less than the leading LoCos for an average PIC. Hence my comments about absorbing / expansion happening on the lower ladders.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 16:03
  #54 (permalink)  
VJW
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
6 figures is 9k/month, we're getting not excited about half that.
Yeah Iím aware- the reason I mentioned that story was to show that even the authorities think we work part time hours.
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