Ryanair to recruit 1000 Pilots
1000 pilots recruited into RYR in one year is the headline but read on and they tell you there's gonna be 300 upgrades, you've got to recruit two pilots for every command position then there's the natural rate of attrition at a non-career airline like RYR (extremely high)
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Trouble is, unlike a lot of other airlines, they will have to overcome the stigma that has grown up around working for MOL before they will attract the mainstream pilots ... and with other airlines recruiting too, will there be the long (20 years) predicted shortage of pilots now .. ?!
This would seem a good time for any pilots who think Ryanair needs to up its game in terms of management attitudes to rekindle the debate and let the airline show that it is prepared to change. Or is it the same old MOL and hard management which has, by all accounts, been the hallmark of Ryanair in the past?
This would seem a good time for any pilots who think Ryanair needs to up its game in terms of management attitudes to rekindle the debate and let the airline show that it is prepared to change. Or is it the same old MOL and hard management which has, by all accounts, been the hallmark of Ryanair in the past?
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... I've read elsewhere that around 100 pilots have been leaving a month ... ?
So, if the net requirement is for 1,000 pilots, it seems as though they are talking about having to recruit over 2,000 pilots in the coming year ... ?!
I appreciate that pilots can't continue to haemorrhage at that rate, however it does show that my previous Post has some relevance insofar as attitudes are going to have to change with MOL et al in order for the stigma to be first overcome and before substantial improvements will be realised.
Other Threads indicate that Ryanair isn't the best deal, so where are all these experienced type-rated pilots expected to come from ... ? Not the UK it would seem ... ?
Oh, and then there's the Sword of Damocles hanging over Ryanair's and its Agent's corporate heads in the form of ongoing tax investigations. Now that will put many pilots off. A friend of mine who flew for them said years ago: 'I'm a UK pilot working for an Irish airline based in Spain, let the tax man try and find me ...!'. Well that tax man does seem to be using best endeavours to unravel that tangled web - and in the case of the HMRC and IR35 regulations it will indeed be difficult for pilots and their employer to convince them that they can be 'substituted' in accordance with the regulations.
Interesting times ahead and, as MaverickPrime has suggested, time to buy an extra large tub of popcorn ...
Let the story begin ...
So, if the net requirement is for 1,000 pilots, it seems as though they are talking about having to recruit over 2,000 pilots in the coming year ... ?!
I appreciate that pilots can't continue to haemorrhage at that rate, however it does show that my previous Post has some relevance insofar as attitudes are going to have to change with MOL et al in order for the stigma to be first overcome and before substantial improvements will be realised.
Other Threads indicate that Ryanair isn't the best deal, so where are all these experienced type-rated pilots expected to come from ... ? Not the UK it would seem ... ?
Oh, and then there's the Sword of Damocles hanging over Ryanair's and its Agent's corporate heads in the form of ongoing tax investigations. Now that will put many pilots off. A friend of mine who flew for them said years ago: 'I'm a UK pilot working for an Irish airline based in Spain, let the tax man try and find me ...!'. Well that tax man does seem to be using best endeavours to unravel that tangled web - and in the case of the HMRC and IR35 regulations it will indeed be difficult for pilots and their employer to convince them that they can be 'substituted' in accordance with the regulations.
Interesting times ahead and, as MaverickPrime has suggested, time to buy an extra large tub of popcorn ...
Let the story begin ...
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FR have always been ahead of the game in terms of Ryanair if not its pilots staying on the right side of the law tax wise at least legally.
A 1000 pilots for 50 aircraft is 20 pilots per aircraft which can't be right so the gross figure probably includes attrition. In any event with with other operators adding aircraft is there that much sim capacity out there given most of the national legacy airlines are flying airbus in Europe ?
A 1000 pilots for 50 aircraft is 20 pilots per aircraft which can't be right so the gross figure probably includes attrition. In any event with with other operators adding aircraft is there that much sim capacity out there given most of the national legacy airlines are flying airbus in Europe ?
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Just like when Ryanair buys planes, they don't actually own them. They are all leased in to the company (or so the ownership placards on the aircraft would suggest).
Expect 1000 new zero hour agency contracts to be available.
Expect 1000 new zero hour agency contracts to be available.
Last edited by jayc004; 5th Oct 2016 at 20:31. Reason: Clarification
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Adding further pressure to existing T&C's in other airlines.
Europe is pointless in the short term until Ryr's pay policy comes full circle and creates a shortage due to lack of entrants. There are signs it's happening already and it's the only scenario where employment conditions will improve in Ryr. Market conditions may effect change it certainly won't be the myopic employees.
"Always getting better "
....For MOL
....For Shareholders
....For all the other airline bean counters
Europe is pointless in the short term until Ryr's pay policy comes full circle and creates a shortage due to lack of entrants. There are signs it's happening already and it's the only scenario where employment conditions will improve in Ryr. Market conditions may effect change it certainly won't be the myopic employees.
"Always getting better "
....For MOL
....For Shareholders
....For all the other airline bean counters
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Loosing good FOs to flagcarriers.
This is good news for terms and conditions, me thinks.
Senior first officers, if I can call a chap with less than 4 years in the industry , are leaving in large numbers.
I have seen many go to Icelandair , Finnair and SAS lately. Not so many to Norwegian.
Also talked with a Dutch FO going BA longhaule, that is a first.
The selection of FOs in RYR that are ready, able and willing to upgrade is rapidly diminishing .
It is going to be an interesting winter for the trainers,I wish them good luck.
Senior first officers, if I can call a chap with less than 4 years in the industry , are leaving in large numbers.
I have seen many go to Icelandair , Finnair and SAS lately. Not so many to Norwegian.
Also talked with a Dutch FO going BA longhaule, that is a first.
The selection of FOs in RYR that are ready, able and willing to upgrade is rapidly diminishing .
It is going to be an interesting winter for the trainers,I wish them good luck.
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You're all talking nonsense. Ryanair are not going to change their T&Cs because there is a plentiful supply of cadet pilots coming out of flight schools to fill FO positions. While many FOs are and will leave to other airlines, there are still enough suitable FOs to undertake the required upgrade courses and become captains. To think otherwise is simply wishful thinking. But do carrying saying otherwise, as others have been saying for years, cause it's great to see such optimism!
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Really?
I think the combined output of CTC/OAA/FTE is something like 600/yr, plus some of those are bound straight for ME or FE carriers.
1000 for RYR
400 for EZY
Not to mention the rest
Eventually they will run out of people with £130k lying around, think there was something like 31% less CPLs issued in 2015, people have bound to have got the message that the cost of training outweighs the 'rewards'.
The chickens will come home to roost someday in the boardroom in some shape or form, life has a nasty way of finding equilibrium to put it mildly!
I think the combined output of CTC/OAA/FTE is something like 600/yr, plus some of those are bound straight for ME or FE carriers.
1000 for RYR
400 for EZY
Not to mention the rest
Eventually they will run out of people with £130k lying around, think there was something like 31% less CPLs issued in 2015, people have bound to have got the message that the cost of training outweighs the 'rewards'.
The chickens will come home to roost someday in the boardroom in some shape or form, life has a nasty way of finding equilibrium to put it mildly!
Last edited by MaverickPrime; 7th Oct 2016 at 20:10.
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The old fabled pilot shortage...Don't take this the wrong way, because there is no malice intended, but how long have you guys who think things are on the cusp of change, been in the industry? A few years perhaps? The economic cycle goes up and down the airline industry is hugely affected by it. The good times generally don't last more than 3 years and we are over 18 months into the good times. The bad times are just around the corner and they last longer than the good times. As I say, no offence intended. But you guys really don't know your (our) economic history. But good luck!
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Boeing 7E7
I read recently that someone stated that they had survived 3 recessions in their career.
Life is one long recession with a few good times in between ...
It seems the past 40 years have been like that for me ... lol
I read recently that someone stated that they had survived 3 recessions in their career.
Life is one long recession with a few good times in between ...
It seems the past 40 years have been like that for me ... lol
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I don't mean to come across as a naive starry eyed wannabe, I went to the integrated schools at the ripe old age of 18, I passed the easy aptitude tests and was fed all the PR, my wise and cynical family rightly steered me away and low and behold the crash happened a few months later. I thankfully escaped unscathed to train another day.
I'm fully aware of the cycle system in aviation. Although, I'm in it for the long haul excuse the pun. The stock market is the reference point if you like and it works the same way. If you look back the last 100 years the markets have went in cycles, but overall they have steadily grown. So, in theory, I'll catch the upturn eventually.
Cue Ryanair,
MOL, amongst others, business strategy is generally expansion, expansion, expansion, stop expanding and the shareholders will get cold feet. In the long run FR and others will have to recruit pilots for the pointy end if they want to keep afloat; despite what the markets do, short of a nuclear meltdown. Thus, with the amount of a/c orders so big versus pilots available this is why I think RYR and others are in for a crewing problem.
In around about way I've just explained the old looming pilot shortage theory I will concede, yea it will probably turn out to be less dramatic in reality. What I'm saying is they can't keep reducing salaries and inc training costs infinitely, there is a bottom line....somewhere!
I'm fully aware of the cycle system in aviation. Although, I'm in it for the long haul excuse the pun. The stock market is the reference point if you like and it works the same way. If you look back the last 100 years the markets have went in cycles, but overall they have steadily grown. So, in theory, I'll catch the upturn eventually.
Cue Ryanair,
MOL, amongst others, business strategy is generally expansion, expansion, expansion, stop expanding and the shareholders will get cold feet. In the long run FR and others will have to recruit pilots for the pointy end if they want to keep afloat; despite what the markets do, short of a nuclear meltdown. Thus, with the amount of a/c orders so big versus pilots available this is why I think RYR and others are in for a crewing problem.
In around about way I've just explained the old looming pilot shortage theory I will concede, yea it will probably turn out to be less dramatic in reality. What I'm saying is they can't keep reducing salaries and inc training costs infinitely, there is a bottom line....somewhere!
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The good times generally don't last more than 3 years and we are over 18 months into the good times. The bad times are just around the corner and they last longer than the good times.
However, the one European airline that has a history of expansion in recessions is Ryanair.
While it is understandable that young FOs see the likes of BA, Virgin, Thomson, Monarch and Jet2 as career airlines, one ought to look at how those airlines have been effected by past recessions.
The 'greener grass' is more likely to be mown than the 'hardy, stubbly' variety. Remember: first in, first out.