Monarch 2015
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Cool down everyone, I'm sure there's more to it than we're being told. I don't have the details personally but it's very easy to grab a sensationalist number and run with it. Wait and see until the full information from a reliable source comes out.
It's like the easy NEC, they're paid just £1200 a month initially which garners the same reaction as headline grabber, until you learn all the facts of the situation.
It's like the easy NEC, they're paid just £1200 a month initially which garners the same reaction as headline grabber, until you learn all the facts of the situation.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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It was and is a combination of both t&c's and prospects. Some FOs had their salary almost halfed (some ironically are better off shortermwise), some captains lost 30% (a few are better off initially). Also, fear of loosing their job's is not, still unfortunately, in the past tense, unfortunately this is the reason why several are still leaving or looking outside.
Monarch is not the same company it was six months ago in any respect, just ask any of the crew.
Monarch is not the same company it was six months ago in any respect, just ask any of the crew.
curtains for everybody.
JumboJet 1999 what a load of tosh you speak.
easyJet treat their employees better than most of the other airlines that's why so many pilots are fighting to join their ranks including ex Monarch pilots. I'm assuming you're not fortunate enough to be one of them hence you lack of understanding of the conditions.
easyJet treat their employees better than most of the other airlines that's why so many pilots are fighting to join their ranks including ex Monarch pilots. I'm assuming you're not fortunate enough to be one of them hence you lack of understanding of the conditions.
A handful of monarch employees have joined Easyjet, along with BA, Emirates, Etihad, China , Jet2 etc etc, several have turned the Orange side down!
Looking at poor pay and conditions for pilots and cabin crew, suggest you look further than Monarch.
Yes, the new t&c are a downstep fom previously, but they were ways above the average and there are currently an awful lot of far worse places to be at!!
Looking at poor pay and conditions for pilots and cabin crew, suggest you look further than Monarch.
Yes, the new t&c are a downstep fom previously, but they were ways above the average and there are currently an awful lot of far worse places to be at!!
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Monarch 2015
Fact!
Compensation and Benefits
Monarch divides the year into 13 roster periods of 28 days each. Pilots typically fly 9 roster periods full time during the summer and winter peak periods and 4 roster periods at 50% during off peak periods. Compensation is thus pro-rated to 11/13ths of the 100% reference salary.
These are salaried positions with a Cadet FO salary of £21,153 for the first six months, then rising to £32,153. These figures are 11/13ths of the 100% reference salaries, which are £25,000 and £38,000 respectively.
Flying Pay
First Officers receive £14.68 per hour, based on chock-to-chock time or scheduled block hour time, whichever is longer.
Other Pay
Monarch pilots receive pay for various non-flying work related activities such as simulator pay, ground classroom training, positioning pay, stand down pay and split duty pay.
Pension
Monarch contributes 7% of the 100% reference salary to the company pension scheme. This is set to rise 1% per year to a maximum of 10% from 1st November 2016-2018. There are no mandatory employee contributions; however, should an employee wish to contribute additional salary to their pension it will be done on a tax efficient salary sacrifice basis. This will be explained in greater detail during company induction.
Pension members also have a Death in Service Benefit and an Income Protection Scheme.
Compensation and Benefits
Monarch divides the year into 13 roster periods of 28 days each. Pilots typically fly 9 roster periods full time during the summer and winter peak periods and 4 roster periods at 50% during off peak periods. Compensation is thus pro-rated to 11/13ths of the 100% reference salary.
These are salaried positions with a Cadet FO salary of £21,153 for the first six months, then rising to £32,153. These figures are 11/13ths of the 100% reference salaries, which are £25,000 and £38,000 respectively.
Flying Pay
First Officers receive £14.68 per hour, based on chock-to-chock time or scheduled block hour time, whichever is longer.
Other Pay
Monarch pilots receive pay for various non-flying work related activities such as simulator pay, ground classroom training, positioning pay, stand down pay and split duty pay.
Pension
Monarch contributes 7% of the 100% reference salary to the company pension scheme. This is set to rise 1% per year to a maximum of 10% from 1st November 2016-2018. There are no mandatory employee contributions; however, should an employee wish to contribute additional salary to their pension it will be done on a tax efficient salary sacrifice basis. This will be explained in greater detail during company induction.
Pension members also have a Death in Service Benefit and an Income Protection Scheme.
Moderator
Enzo999 - as I am sure you are aware, a whole pile of disgruntled easyJet FOs left Monarch a few years ago to join easyJet. Nearly all were strongly advised by their colleagues not to leave as the permanent contracts they were seeking would be issued once the then industrial dispute between BALPA and management was resolved. Despite that advice the said FOs got up and left to join a 'proper' and 'decent' company, where they were destined to be treated with respect etc. Some of those guys have applied to come back and were not considered due to the manner in which they left easyJet (one of life's golden rules is to never clear your pitch when you leave somewhere as you never know what the future holds). Some were considered but there were a number of failures at the sim stage. I know we have taken a number of Monarch captains, but I do not know of any FOs who have actually ended up coming here (for the reasons given).
I understand that one or two of the more senior Monarch captains who were destined to come here as DECs decided at the last minute to stay put. I wish then the very best in the future, but I cannot help but feeling they have made a mistake. As we all know, there is no magic answer to these questions, but from where I sit right now, easyJet's future looks way more solid than Monarch's. A number of people (great guys one and all) obviously do not agree with that assessment and have stuck with Monarch. I simply cannot see a place for a small 737 operation in tomorrow's market place, but time will tell who has got that right or not. In the meantime, I hope all those affected by redundancy/relocation etc will be ok in the longer term.
I understand that one or two of the more senior Monarch captains who were destined to come here as DECs decided at the last minute to stay put. I wish then the very best in the future, but I cannot help but feeling they have made a mistake. As we all know, there is no magic answer to these questions, but from where I sit right now, easyJet's future looks way more solid than Monarch's. A number of people (great guys one and all) obviously do not agree with that assessment and have stuck with Monarch. I simply cannot see a place for a small 737 operation in tomorrow's market place, but time will tell who has got that right or not. In the meantime, I hope all those affected by redundancy/relocation etc will be ok in the longer term.
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This thread is supposed to be about Monarch not Monarch vs EasyJet. I know a few FOs left Easy for Monarch and that seems to have left a bad taste in the mouths of a few guys at Easy, but it was just a few, the vast majority of FOs at Monarch have no connection to Easy at all.
A lot of captains have recently left Mon and I tend to agree with Count that this is the correct move, the guys that turned it down did so because they did not want to relocate or live away from their families for 5 days a week (perfectly understandable).
I also agree that EasyJet are a good company that treat their staff better than its competitors, but don't kid yourselves that it is perfect or that it has not played a part in driving down Terms across the whole industry.
The reasons no FO has joined Easy from Monarch are as follows.
1, most of us can't afford to, if we joined it would be on a fexi contract salary at its best 60k for 900 hours, but I think it's fair to assume we will work closer to 600 resulting in a salary of 40,200, This is based on the highest rate of pay! No pension, sick pay, holiday pay. Like many other adults in this world I have bills nursery fees, mortgage, car loan etc and I have to be sure each month I will be able to pay them.
But after 1 year of this we will be rewarded (if the company requires it) with a full time second officer contract 39k a year with no flight pay. My first ever job in aviation 10 years ago was paying more than that. So after yet another year of not being able to feed my family or heat my house I will finally get that FO salary 45k apart from the are very likely to give me 75 percent meaning another year of earning not enough.
It will easily take me 4 years to earn anything close to the salary needed to maintain my lifestyle.
2, They have not actually offered any of us job we were supposed to have interviews but the were cancelled late last year and never re scheduled. In that time though I bet they have taken hundreds of fresh faced cadets.
If EasyJet offered us all full time FO or SFO contracts nearly every FO would leave instantly but they won't because it's too expensive. As I said earlier I am not attacking EasyJet I like many others would love to join but the terms on offer at the bottom end are so bad only cadets or people truly disparate will except them. At the top end SFO and captain things are much better but still a long way off industry leading.
I am glad the people working at Easy Love it but you must try and see why the rest of us fail to agree. You describe it as a fair and decent employer well they are not being very fair or decent to experienced pilots wanting to join.
A lot of captains have recently left Mon and I tend to agree with Count that this is the correct move, the guys that turned it down did so because they did not want to relocate or live away from their families for 5 days a week (perfectly understandable).
I also agree that EasyJet are a good company that treat their staff better than its competitors, but don't kid yourselves that it is perfect or that it has not played a part in driving down Terms across the whole industry.
The reasons no FO has joined Easy from Monarch are as follows.
1, most of us can't afford to, if we joined it would be on a fexi contract salary at its best 60k for 900 hours, but I think it's fair to assume we will work closer to 600 resulting in a salary of 40,200, This is based on the highest rate of pay! No pension, sick pay, holiday pay. Like many other adults in this world I have bills nursery fees, mortgage, car loan etc and I have to be sure each month I will be able to pay them.
But after 1 year of this we will be rewarded (if the company requires it) with a full time second officer contract 39k a year with no flight pay. My first ever job in aviation 10 years ago was paying more than that. So after yet another year of not being able to feed my family or heat my house I will finally get that FO salary 45k apart from the are very likely to give me 75 percent meaning another year of earning not enough.
It will easily take me 4 years to earn anything close to the salary needed to maintain my lifestyle.
2, They have not actually offered any of us job we were supposed to have interviews but the were cancelled late last year and never re scheduled. In that time though I bet they have taken hundreds of fresh faced cadets.
If EasyJet offered us all full time FO or SFO contracts nearly every FO would leave instantly but they won't because it's too expensive. As I said earlier I am not attacking EasyJet I like many others would love to join but the terms on offer at the bottom end are so bad only cadets or people truly disparate will except them. At the top end SFO and captain things are much better but still a long way off industry leading.
I am glad the people working at Easy Love it but you must try and see why the rest of us fail to agree. You describe it as a fair and decent employer well they are not being very fair or decent to experienced pilots wanting to join.
Moderator
Enzo999 - you are certainly right that easyJet have not offered favourable terms to experienced FOs. The figures you quote are, however, not 100% correct and you also miss out the fact that easyJet has historically exercised some discretion to insert First Officers at an appropriate point on the pay scale depending on their experience.
Unfortunately, your experience of easyJet pilot recruitment and the cancellation of scheduled interviews is par for the course. Indeed, you're lucky you were not offered jobs and them had them rescinded at the last subsequently. Although the recruitment process is quite good, the 'management' of pilot recruitment is something of a disaster. The only thing I can say by way of consolation is that once you get through all that and into the Company it is a really good place to be. Anyway, so sorry about that. Good luck in all your endeavours.
Unfortunately, your experience of easyJet pilot recruitment and the cancellation of scheduled interviews is par for the course. Indeed, you're lucky you were not offered jobs and them had them rescinded at the last subsequently. Although the recruitment process is quite good, the 'management' of pilot recruitment is something of a disaster. The only thing I can say by way of consolation is that once you get through all that and into the Company it is a really good place to be. Anyway, so sorry about that. Good luck in all your endeavours.
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There may well have historically been discretion exercised but there was no hint of it this time.
Figures not accurate Count. Which ones ? They are what I thought.
Enzo999 is absolutely right. 10 years experience to be offered a flex contract then maybe 2nd Officer then maybe 75% FO pay scale is just not viable when you have little mouthes to feed. Anyway, it was all academic anyway. Such a pity.
Figures not accurate Count. Which ones ? They are what I thought.
Enzo999 is absolutely right. 10 years experience to be offered a flex contract then maybe 2nd Officer then maybe 75% FO pay scale is just not viable when you have little mouthes to feed. Anyway, it was all academic anyway. Such a pity.
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For all its faults, RYR doesn't pay such a paltry salary as that! For those that seem to think EZY is wonderful, get out a bit more! They're not bad for Captains, but they're terrible to junior FOs. No low cost airline in the EU is a good place to be long term.