Ryanair Non-Rated DEC
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Balpamyass Palace
Fulminn, I love your figures based on 100 flying hours p.m, that is very realistic 
How can you invest any potential extra money in a serious pension plan with such a precarious job? Banks will never trust in you. Not even Bernard Madoff would have made a deal with a Ryanair slave. Those summer months incomes are just helping to cover the hard winter season, when all Ryanair Boeings are parked 24 hours a day for a few months.
Regarding those take home figures for self employed contractors, do they really pay all the taxes that they should pay, especially after 2 years? Probably not.
I know Contract FOs who have taken home over €7000 after tax on a normal summer months. Captain's hourly rate is 50% higher. Do the maths. I suspect they're all intelligent enough to know to put money aside for the quieter months!
Regarding those take home figures for self employed contractors, do they really pay all the taxes that they should pay, especially after 2 years? Probably not.
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 46
From: Between a rock and a hard place
Be wary about some of the numbers given here
There is no standard FR contract. All bases have different numbers. The local deals for tax/social insurance vary and will have an impact on take home pay. Recent FR contracts for FO's in mainland Europe as low as 18 000 Euro/year for FO < 1500 hrs. Even with allowance + sector pay it will be far less than fulminn's 4500-5000 !!!!!
For Contractos (Storm/Brookfield). Numbers are going down because the times are over when you could put up a company in Dubai/Malta/Isle of Man and skip out on income taxes. The times are also over when you could pay the ridiculously low Irish PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance) of 4 %. Contractors who have been here a while can live on grandfathers rights for a few more years, but new joiners can't avoid it.
A colleague spoken to recently said she's got a retention rate of 46 % on a normal month, complying with taxes. That is, 46 % of what your company invoices Brookfield actually ends up in your wallet. Do the maths yourself; [€ per hour] x [Hours per anum] x 0.46.
This is the future. What your hear today is from people that's been living the good years under dubious tax agreements. Wait 10 years and see what the average FO will say they per month.
There are still people out boasting and bragging about how awesome money they make as contractors.
So listen to salesmen like Depone and fulminn all you like, but use caution before you accept their numbers of the bat. Better ask all pilots in Ryanair, old as well as new for their facts. Everyone has a different situation.
There is no standard FR contract. All bases have different numbers. The local deals for tax/social insurance vary and will have an impact on take home pay. Recent FR contracts for FO's in mainland Europe as low as 18 000 Euro/year for FO < 1500 hrs. Even with allowance + sector pay it will be far less than fulminn's 4500-5000 !!!!!
For Contractos (Storm/Brookfield). Numbers are going down because the times are over when you could put up a company in Dubai/Malta/Isle of Man and skip out on income taxes. The times are also over when you could pay the ridiculously low Irish PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance) of 4 %. Contractors who have been here a while can live on grandfathers rights for a few more years, but new joiners can't avoid it.
A colleague spoken to recently said she's got a retention rate of 46 % on a normal month, complying with taxes. That is, 46 % of what your company invoices Brookfield actually ends up in your wallet. Do the maths yourself; [€ per hour] x [Hours per anum] x 0.46.
This is the future. What your hear today is from people that's been living the good years under dubious tax agreements. Wait 10 years and see what the average FO will say they per month.
There are still people out boasting and bragging about how awesome money they make as contractors.
So listen to salesmen like Depone and fulminn all you like, but use caution before you accept their numbers of the bat. Better ask all pilots in Ryanair, old as well as new for their facts. Everyone has a different situation.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Balpamyass Palace
Depone thanks for your prompt reply. Of course Ryanair is a strong company, no doubt about it but by precarious I was refering to Ryanair's terms and conditions, base unstability, irregular amount of income and possibility to get sacked with no valid reason.
20 years ago your colleagues were offered a more decent contract, especially those who came from Aer Lingus, but things are completely different now. Just until a few years ago most of Ryanair brookfield pilots were not paying any tax but the Eu and irish authority changed the rules and the game is over.
Flying 900 hours per year, 10-11 hours of non stop duty per day is really not good for your health, especially with 5 days ON in a raw, going to bed well after midnight or having to wake up at 4am depending if you are on lates or on earlies. That's why the majority of Ryanair pilots and cabin crews are under 35 years old.
20 years ago your colleagues were offered a more decent contract, especially those who came from Aer Lingus, but things are completely different now. Just until a few years ago most of Ryanair brookfield pilots were not paying any tax but the Eu and irish authority changed the rules and the game is over.
Flying 900 hours per year, 10-11 hours of non stop duty per day is really not good for your health, especially with 5 days ON in a raw, going to bed well after midnight or having to wake up at 4am depending if you are on lates or on earlies. That's why the majority of Ryanair pilots and cabin crews are under 35 years old.
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 83
From: Germany
Ryanair creates a great deal of fear for the current and would be future pilots of legacy and other european airlines. With a couple of exceptions (e.g. Easyjet, maybe Wizz) no one really seems to have an answer to their business model. Lufthansa, Air France and others have stated this publicly as their reason for needing to set up cheaper alternatives.
The obvious benefits with Ryanair are that they are likely to survive and continue growing. So your job security (insovency related) and opportunities for F/Os to become a captain are a given. The down side is that Ryanair's out and out Taylorist (think Ford conveyor belt) approach makes you a small cog in a very big wheel. It is not difficult to think of reasons to dislike them and their business practices. But unless you win the lottery and get taken on directly by a legacy carrier there are sadly a lot worse places to be.
The obvious benefits with Ryanair are that they are likely to survive and continue growing. So your job security (insovency related) and opportunities for F/Os to become a captain are a given. The down side is that Ryanair's out and out Taylorist (think Ford conveyor belt) approach makes you a small cog in a very big wheel. It is not difficult to think of reasons to dislike them and their business practices. But unless you win the lottery and get taken on directly by a legacy carrier there are sadly a lot worse places to be.
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 46
From: Between a rock and a hard place
Depone, fair point!
Just the number you've mentioned are in the high range, in my experience.
5000 net pcm, is not that far from reality in some bases. 7000 pcm for FO, whilst true, doesn't happen often and certainly not for the normal 2+ year FO who is paid back 200-300 euro, tops, in expenses each month. Rest is taxed.
Sums it up well, in words w/o the numbers
Just the number you've mentioned are in the high range, in my experience.
5000 net pcm, is not that far from reality in some bases. 7000 pcm for FO, whilst true, doesn't happen often and certainly not for the normal 2+ year FO who is paid back 200-300 euro, tops, in expenses each month. Rest is taxed.
The reality is the FR is a great place for some people, a nightmare for others
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: Outta town
Debating the relative salaries available is purely academic until you pass the interview. Ask your work mates who have experienced it there, most companies now have ex Ryanair guys employed.
Still no one heard from submitting their DEC application?
Do all none rated pilots have to pay the €29000 for type course? Bugg#% that !
( Not Orange, check your pm's)
Still no one heard from submitting their DEC application?
Do all none rated pilots have to pay the €29000 for type course? Bugg#% that !
( Not Orange, check your pm's)
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: USA
Microwave food? And up at 4 AM for earlies?
What a bunch of crap....... There is no Microwave oven on board, and what you bring is up to you. Try the crew meals in China........
If you start lates at 2pm you finish well before midnight. Some days long some short. You at least dont sit 4 hours waiting for pushback on every flight like in China. Stop spreading !!!!. And it is spelled in a ROW, not RAW. Raw is how the Japanese eat their fish.
Good luck.
If you start lates at 2pm you finish well before midnight. Some days long some short. You at least dont sit 4 hours waiting for pushback on every flight like in China. Stop spreading !!!!. And it is spelled in a ROW, not RAW. Raw is how the Japanese eat their fish.
Good luck.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: .
The criteria for new joiners to be considered for command upgrade are 1 recurrent sim graded at good or better and having spent 1 full winter in the company. This means you can expect the command upgrade process to begin about 6-8 months after joining subject to the above.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: UK
I've been offered a job with Ryanair as a DEC on a UK employment contract employed directly by Ryanair. I'm currently employed by another UK LCC and am mulling over whether to make the switch. Can anyone who's employed directly by Ryanair on a UK sterling contract answer some questions I have:
How does leave work? Is it true you only get 2 x 5 day blocks a year off on top of your month off and that you're unlikely to get any leave in the summer?
How much out of base flying do you do? And do the company arrange hotels and transport if operating away from base?
Is it correct the company matches up to 6% into a DC pension plan?
How much is the allowance to cover uniform, car parking etc?
I appreciate every base is different, but approximately how much is the basic and variable pay on a UK contract? I assume the basic is still paid on the month off?
Some of these points were covered on my assessment day but there was a lot to take in so any clarification on the above points would be appreciated. PM if you would prefer, thanks for your help.
How does leave work? Is it true you only get 2 x 5 day blocks a year off on top of your month off and that you're unlikely to get any leave in the summer?
How much out of base flying do you do? And do the company arrange hotels and transport if operating away from base?
Is it correct the company matches up to 6% into a DC pension plan?
How much is the allowance to cover uniform, car parking etc?
I appreciate every base is different, but approximately how much is the basic and variable pay on a UK contract? I assume the basic is still paid on the month off?
Some of these points were covered on my assessment day but there was a lot to take in so any clarification on the above points would be appreciated. PM if you would prefer, thanks for your help.
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: England
I can only answer for STN based Ryanair company Captain
10 days are on top of the calendar month and over the years have variously taken them all together giving a 22 day block, taken 5 giving 13 days off and also as ad hoc days.
Had a week off in the summer this year
In the last 12 years been sent out of base once, the company has to supply everything, taxis, hotel etc.
Company matches up to £6,000 paid into pension
£6,000 allowances
£38.49 gross hourly sector pay
£103.45 gross holiday pay per day
£396.55 gross for working day off
Basic plus 18 days payment for month off
10 days are on top of the calendar month and over the years have variously taken them all together giving a 22 day block, taken 5 giving 13 days off and also as ad hoc days.
Had a week off in the summer this year
In the last 12 years been sent out of base once, the company has to supply everything, taxis, hotel etc.
Company matches up to £6,000 paid into pension
£6,000 allowances
£38.49 gross hourly sector pay
£103.45 gross holiday pay per day
£396.55 gross for working day off
Basic plus 18 days payment for month off
Beacon Outbound
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 710
Likes: 22
From: "Home is were the answer machine is"
In addition to the numbers given by aerobat, there is an agreement with HMRC that allows you to claim 1500 pounds a year in tax relief for expenses
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 661
Likes: 14
From: UK
Just bringing this thread back to the top, I'm another EK 777 skipper from the UK looking at options to get me home.
Any update of latest contracts, commuting etc, whats the latest flavour of the month?
I fly with plenty of ex RYR guys so I have a good idea of how the place has been, and I dont need a lecture on the ills of the place. Im after a good unbiased opinion bearing in mind the key thing is a stable income and a stable roster. Presently at EK I'll be dead by 55 at the rate they are working me.
Thanks one and all in advance
Any update of latest contracts, commuting etc, whats the latest flavour of the month?
I fly with plenty of ex RYR guys so I have a good idea of how the place has been, and I dont need a lecture on the ills of the place. Im after a good unbiased opinion bearing in mind the key thing is a stable income and a stable roster. Presently at EK I'll be dead by 55 at the rate they are working me.
Thanks one and all in advance