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Ryanair in Copenhagen ... or not

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Ryanair in Copenhagen ... or not

Old 29th Jan 2015, 12:49
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Ryanair in Copenhagen ... or not

Ryanair has presented what it calls its final word to the Danish cabin attendant and pilot unions: They have point blank refused to even entertain the idea of a collective agreement.

The unions have replied by announcing a conflict, which means all unionized cabin attendants and pilots in Denmark will be banned from taking up employment. It gets worse, much worse, for Ryanair though. All the major unions of CPH airport have pledged to back up the cabin attendant and pilot unions, and since every single handling, fueling and catering company in CPH is fully unionized, that means their aircraft might land and taxi to gate, but no ground handling at all will take place. This is assuming Ryanair will be able to find a handling agent at all; so far none of them are willing to meet the price point demanded by Ryanair. On the contrary, they have been advised what the prices are, take it or leave it. Reason being is rather simple: Their staff are unionized, and they are unable to turn a profit at the price RYR is offering due to the cost of labour. A ramp agents costs around USD 30/hour in CPH, inclusive of pension and social charges.

Unfortunately for MoL, CPH is home to some of the best organized, and best financially padded, unions in Europe. The word from them is simple: They sign a collective agreement with their cabin attendants and pilots based in CPH, or they bugger off. As the signing of a collective agreement in CPH will have widespread ramifications for their entire European operation, it is highly unlikely Ryanair will succumb to the pressure.

Ryanair plan to base 1 aircraft in CPH as of March, increasing to 4 aircraft during the course of 2015, all crewed with staff based in Denmark.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 13:02
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Interesting, but can't see the Ryans being beaten, they have a bit of a history with union busting. The flight will be originated from other bases if militant activity gets too bad. Handlers will always find cheap immigrant labour to move the bags and rear steps....
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 13:09
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Having seen first hand the determination & "don't give a attitude of the ramp staff in CPH, I think FR may have finally met its match.

Sweating it out along with 186 others on a baking hot day whilst being told that if you don't shut down the APU you will have no baggage handling ( because the handlers don't want to wear the ear protection provided by their employer ) is both frustrating & strangely comforting at the same time.

Vikings 1 Ryanair 0 would be my bet on the score.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 17:32
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Just to add a bit of Danish levity:

I arrived in BLL one night and the loaders refused to work until I shut the APU down (I wanted to stay warm during a 20 minute turnaround).

"Why" said I?

"It makes too much noise and it says so in our rules"

So, I shut the APU down and switched on the Brake Fans (which made more noise than the APU).

That blew the whole union plan apart because there was nothing in their bits and pieces that mentioned Brake Fans and I pointed out that this was a matter of flight safety.

I think I won the moral high ground that night.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 17:39
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Handlers will always find cheap immigrant labour to move the bags and rear steps....
Not in CPH they won't. And it's not just the unions who'll put a very quick end to that idea, the airport itself will not accept a handling company working on its premises without a collective agreement with it's workers. So the chances of seeing 'cheap immigrant workers' slinging bags and steps in CPH are somewhere between nil and zero.

I think I won the moral high ground that night.
You probably won '**** of the day' award, if anything. Sorry to be blunt, but that was an idiotic reaction on your part. If you're cold or hot, order a bloody aircondition unit and be done with it. Reminds me of the old saying 'in any pissing contests, everybody ends up wet and smelly'.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 17:56
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I've no interest in leaping to thr defence of FR, however "it's too noisy and it's in our rules" is the most frustratingly disgraceful comment to be made by a person who works on the ramp of a commercial airport. What's next, tow aircraft to a point beyond earshot in order for them to start engines a depart? Have stealth arrivals onto stand? Make sure that baggage, fuel and catering trucks are noise monitored when under their own power? Wear ear defenders and do the job. Otherwise work elsewhere.

I can respect an airport having environmental constraints on the use of APUs, but ensure a GPU and the air conditioning cart is available on arrival. Simply telling me 'your' APU is too noisy and we have rules for ground staff' is pathetic. It's the very same people who fail to bring you a ground cart during an entire turnaround despite it being in the handling agent's contract that they must provide one. If they were sitting inside my aluminium tube experiencing soaring or indeed plummeting temperatures, what would be their primary concern at that stage?
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 18:22
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I've no interest in leaping to thr defence of FR, however "it's too noisy and it's in our rules" is the most frustratingly disgraceful comment to be made by a person who works on the ramp of a commercial airport.
I appreciate your frustrations, but it seems to me that you've been subjected to a person who failed to communicate properly. Several airports do have restrictions on the use of APU (e.g. 5 mins after on-block and 10 mins before off-block), and that's nothing to do with the handlers. If is, however, their ears which will be suffering in the end.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 18:51
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If is, however, their ears which will be suffering in the end
Surely their union supported salary could support buying ear plugs for themselves? Or would that need to be discussed at the next union meeting?

My ears suffer with APUs too, if you don't like the noise machines make don't work with them??
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 19:36
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It is Summer, it is hot (yep even in CPH ) & they don't want pesky ear defenders messing up their carefully coiffured Mullet. . . . it is very "Britain in the 70's" turn that off or we will stop working.

I turned it on 10 min before STD & was met with a torrent of abuse "But we won't be ready in 10min switch it off again". . . my reply that we could solve this particular dilemma by them working faster was probably not the highpoint of my feeble attempts at diplomacy.

They are such sensitive souls the baggage guys in CPH, I am sure that they would be much more suited to working in a library, and am equally sure that they cannot be found on any Saturday night being deafened in some dive by music twice as loud as any APU, lubricated by one two many Carlsbergs.

The only bright side is that they are a formidable foe for a company that has become used to walking over everyone . . . . not this time methinks.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 20:33
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I fly to CPH a lot, I am from there and in the past I was a ground handler there as well.
So with this background, I think I am allowed to voice my opinion about baggage handlers in CPH these days: They are little with too big ego's for what they are worth!!!

I agree with the poster above "if you don't like noise, don't work at an airport handling airplanes"
They are very frustrating people, and I had many rows with them over the years. I too turn on the brake fans when they become too high on their horses, in the hope they might some day turn to use common sense

However, I do support them in the fight against RYR, as this will affect their working conditions in the wrong direction as well if RYR are allowed to do their "business as usual".
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 21:34
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Ryanair åbner rute fra CPH til Stockholm

På pressemødet blev Aviator i øvrigt præsenteret som Ryanairs kommende handlingagent i Københavns Lufthavn.

Which roughly translates to

During the press conference Aviator was presented as the Ryanairs handling agent at CPH.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 22:25
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I see that FR is harping on along their usual lines: "FR planes are Irish territory no matter where they are." All the while, our favourite Kjos claims that Norwegian planes in Spain fly under Spanish rules, even though they're registered in Norway. Funny how absolutely nobody, in the media or otherwise, picks up on this rather interesting tidbit... Two equally big destroyers of the airline industry with the same modus operandi justifying their ways of working around labour laws with two completely opposite explanations. One of them has got to be wrong, yet the legislators turn the other cheek to both.

Last edited by semmern; 29th Jan 2015 at 23:36.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 22:32
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They are little with too big ego's for what they are worth!!!
MOL's mission statement and the reason why RYR, P2F and other industry's cancers exist...in a nutshell.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 10:10
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Guys, remember that few companies know this business as well as RYR does.

Personally, I'm sure of that they wouldn't wake the bear up, unless they were confident that they would be able to kill it, and have the furtrader pay them money for having the honour of selling the fur for them.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 11:40
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FR damage control: If you won't join them- beat them!

Warning: Post from someone only type rated Citroën C3 !
May be moved or deleted as mods see fit!
Yesterday FR commercial director David O’Brien and director of personnel
Eddie Wilson held a press conference in connection with the launch of their CPH
base. One B738 will initially be based in CPH from Mar 26th, starting services
to Stockholm NYO. However IMO it looked more like an attempt to damage
control the threats from a number of unions!
David O’Brien confirmed that FR would not negotiate with Danish Unions.
‘We’re an Irish company flying Irish (registered) aircraft, and the Danish
legislation has nothing to do with us. ..It is plain stupid if the handling people
don’t drop their ideological crusade and welcome new jobs!” Etcetera!
Eddie Wilson said that 10 pilots, all Danish have been recruited internally for
the CPH base. They were in the process of recruiting 20 c/a, also internally.He told
that a FO was paid approx. .DKK 40.000 pr. month and a captain DKK 62000,
whereas a junior stewardess was paid approx.. 15500 DKK per month and a
senior stewardess . 22.000 ( no idea whether amounts mentioned are basic or with
‘extras’ ). ROE: DKK 10 to the Pound!
I won’t rule out that the ‘cockpit’ salary could impress some egalitarian minded
Danes, but the pittance paid to the ‘cabin’ will not! Which is probably why mr.
Wilson added that because of the cost of living in CPH FR was willing to increase
the c/a pay!
FYI: FR is quite a household name in BLL (Western Denmark), because they are
the only option to a number of destinations, including LON.Maybe it’ll take more
to please the Copenhagen-crowd, who are familiar with locos such as a.o.
DY, U2, AB and have something to compare with!
From a SLF point of view I’ll stick to the red nosed aircraft of my Northern
neighbours if they go where I’m going! Servicewise they’re no different from
SK! Maybe they’re looking for loopholes too, but I suppose that’s inevitable in this
LoCo time and age. Things were certainly different during my time in the industry!

Last edited by oyviv; 30th Jan 2015 at 16:06. Reason: spelling
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 13:42
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I see that FR is harping on along their usual lines: "FR planes are Irish territory no matter where they are."

Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 14:20
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Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.

I think even Ryanair have had to realize that now. New Ryanair contracts in European base has them paying the local social insurance. Meanwhile, the basic salary's been reduced insultingly low (to compensate).
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 16:18
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During the press conference Aviator was presented as the Ryanairs handling agent at CPH.
It won't be Aviator doing the handling, rather their 'lower cost' CFS (Copenhagen Flight Service) offering. The workforce in CFS is, however, in the exact same union as everyone else working on the ramp in CPH.

Why Aviator sprung for Ryanair is pretty simple: They will lose their biggest customer (Norwegian) on the 1st of April, representing around 50% of their revenue, to Menzies Aviation.

But, just to be clear, even if RYR has signed a ground handling agreement, the handling staff still won't touch a RYR aircraft unless they sign a collective agreement for their cockpit and cabin staff. Which they've said very clearly that they won't.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 16:24
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But, just to be clear, even if RYR has signed a ground handling agreement, the handling staff still won't touch a RYR aircraft unless they sign a collective agreement for their cockpit and cabin staff. Which they've said very clearly that they won't.

This suggests that someone somewhere has a face to lose. Whose will it be? Who wants to keep it the more and who has more to lose? Could the worm be about to turn? How many episodes will this series have?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 17:38
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Originally Posted by RAT 5
Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.
Well, they're obviously still going on about it, given that they said it again just a few days ago. They were busted here in Norway for having surveillance cameras in their crew office at ENRY without the employees knowing about it, claiming that their offices were Irish territory and they could do as they bloody well pleased. So...no, they don't give a flying they never have and they never will, as long as they're not stopped, which nobody seems willing to do.
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