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110k+ EZY MPL scheme

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110k+ EZY MPL scheme

Old 17th Oct 2014, 11:52
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
The doctor comparison is total BS.My brother in law is a surgeon,48 and earned over 400k last year private (NHS really) and NHS.Worked 9 to 5 no weekends or antisocial hours and has a cracking state funded pension waiting for him.He lives in a 2 million pound house surrounded by mostly other doctors.He didn't pay a bean for his training.
The 110K thing is just another example of the boomers screwing the young ,50K for Uni,renting from your grandparents generation ,retirement when you 75etc.Good luck, your generation is going to need it.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 13:10
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
Age: 57
Posts: 45
Sad joke

I have to say that I am ashamed of being part of this sad "profession " of being an airline pilot, I, m proud of my achievements from a dis-advantaged background but not proud of the naive idiots with invariably more money than sense who completely ridicule a previously hourorable and respectable true profession. If you want to compare this occupation with that of doctors, check the real facts as the previous post alluded to, they (medical) would never be so stupid to pay for everything, work for virtually nothing in the hope of "crumbs from the rich mans table" (as an analogy) in the hope of a job. Those that are pay to fly pilots be aware that those around you on the ground respectable engineers , ATC , dispatchers , refuellers and more of the travelling public are aware of what a joke you are, so I suggest humility at all times. You are a disgrace.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 13:13
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 732
John smith, assuming you're not just a troll but a genuine share holder, then you are a part of why the industry's standards are plummeting. If you have money to invest, then it seems a fair assumption that you are well paid. How much did you have to invest into your career, and how many years did you have to spend unemployed and then clawing your way up? How many lives are dependant on your skill and attention at an instant, and how often do you have to undergo proficiency and medical checks that could terminate your career? How many nights, weekends and holidays do you work, and how much restriction do you have over holidays and where you live? And are you really so stupid that you want the jobs to go to those who will accept the lowest pay? Maybe you should start an airline staffed by school drop-outs - they'd be cheap, and who cares about their intelligence or competence? You are a selfish, short sighted and ignorant buffoon.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 13:55
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Crawley
Age: 50
Posts: 69
Although they certainly are one of the major causes of the downward trend for general standing and conditions in the UK, It is unfair to focus on ezy, nor their loco partners in the race to the bottom

The comment about Germanys recent achievement of ridding their country of universities charging student fees stands out as a very positive move Here you have a country with pride in itself, achieving through manufacturing and economy whilst looking out for its people. Obviously they hun have identified that allowing those with talent and ability to rise to the top both rewards excellence and ensures their continual existence as a strong and leading country continues into the future. This does not discriminate based on background or financial situation.

The UK has a broken Economy, a broken political system and little regard for its people. No matter what the media, nor the any of the political parties try convincing the electorate prior to the looming election our great country is in fact a total mess.

This, quite frankly, ridiculous process of paying 115,000 to gain employment with one of the bottom echelon airlines (my view and that view of the bulk not employed within the orange propaganda bubble) reflects us as a nation. Poor and low class. I agree fully that the USA change to regulation with the 1500 hour minimum an essential that the industry needs to stop virtually the whole lot been dragged down with the locos

I have to agree there are definately posters on here silently appearing as "impartial posters" who are working to an agenda. It is not difficult to identify those with some "interest" in maintaining the current recruitment path/streams dominating recruitment like never before.

My guess, either connected with an interest to the "current streams" or pretty much propaganda soaked.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 14:34
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
I agree wholehearted with the above post.U.K. government is massively corrupt and has an agenda to favour the few...doctors,politicians and those sitting on generous totally unfunded pensions.
negotiations with doctors
do you want to work evenings?....no
do you want to work weekends?...no
do you want a 30 per cent pay rise?...yes please
We can pay for that with the VAT we make on pilot training BINGO!!!
NOT ORANGE is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2014, 14:45
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Utterly
Posts: 1
John smith wrote,

it is a semi-skilled job at best
and micheal o'leary said,

the hostess can land the plane
john, you are micheal o'leary and I claim my five pounds
Bradley Hardacre is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2014, 15:45
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Depends which lawyers you look at.Is it the ones in London who rubber stamp their public school mates Lehman Brother deals and earn 1.5 million a year or the 95 percent who earn 35K doing whippy claims and putting your car insurance through the roof?In Asia piloting is well respected and well paid.I agree though pilot egos are ridiculous coupled with not much upstairs can lead to the situation we are seeing in Europe.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 16:33
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 48
Posts: 751
My brother in law is a surgeon,48 and earned over 400k last year private (NHS really)
Well I know more surgeons than most and I don't a single one that is one that figure.

I have also yet to see a pilot do a 100 hour shift whereas 10 years ago that was common in the medical profession.

These have eased up but I know people who regular work over 80 hours a week.
Mickey Kaye is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2014, 16:36
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 17,441
Leaving aside all the hysterics I regularly sit next to lovely FO's who are good pilots, nice people and well aware of their inexperience (and bring it up in their briefing). They have spent about 100k getting to sit next to me. They are early twenties and they earn after two years a salary of 45k whilst owe the bank lets say the full 100k.

Their pay is 2,500 a month. Their loan repayment is 800 month. Their rent is 450 a month because they share with another.

This is a lot better than year two of my professional flying career. I was just stopping teaching PPL's on Tomahawks for 8hr and just starting to teach CPL/IR's on Seneca III's for 24,000. Luckily I then bypassed the four years in a turboprop job and went straight to jets in a national airline.

When you sum it up they have things better now than I ever did or my generation who didn't get a BA Cadetship.

This is why there is a queue around the block to sign up to this scheme. Moan, bemoan, despair all you like but its the new normal and its no worse than the old normal. Just different.
Wee Weasley Welshman is online now  
Old 17th Oct 2014, 16:52
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
Age: 57
Posts: 45
The above, Some Pilots have an over-inflated egos the same as members of any other profession. Piloting is not semi-skilled but the Airlines are trying to make it so by technology, spy equipment , sops and specialist training (mpl). Salaries are not "artificially high" but I would agree that the next attack will be on Captains salaries , eventually being on a par with train drivers, around 55k. The jobs buggered by Airline bosses(piss takers) and idiots(P2F), its been a team effort. One post mentioned P2F being "a pleasure to with" there,re unlikely to be any other, that aside they have denied more deserving and probably more competent cases, by their immoral and corrupt actions as well as that of the Airlines. Disgusting.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 16:53
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 30
Lets just clarify the process of the scheme
By way of finance...
'Airline Placement Limited (APL), a wholly owned subsidiary of CTC Aviation, will part-sponsor your MPL training. The total funding requirement for the CTC WINGS MPL Route in partnership with easyJet is 109,000. You deposit a ‘security bond’ of 69,000 to secure your place on the course. This security bond is deposited in 13 instalments over the period of training and is held by APL until your employment with easyJet. During the period of employment by ARL, the 69,000 security bond you deposited during MPL training will continue to be held by APL until you are employed by easyJet.
easyJet will, in turn, repay the 69,000 bond to you in monthly instalments over a period of seven years in addition to the salary commensurate with experience.
Heres the issue...
You will be required to pay two MPL Training Fees. The first Fee totals 20,800 and is payable before you travel to NZ or USA to commence flight training. The second Fee is due prior to the Advanced Phase of the course and totals 19,200'.
Is this a separate cost?

Now, regarding employment...
'easyJet also continues to select from our Airline Placement Pool of CTC WINGS Integrated ATPL "white tail" graduate pilots which is always open for applications

Generally airlines will make a ‘conditional’ offer of employment prior to the commencement of training and pilots will be employed by the airline on completion of Advanced Phase 4 of training.

On commencement of Line Operations you will be offered a three year renewable contract to fly as a First Officer for easyJet through CTC FlexiCrew. After 12 months flying as a CTC FlexiCrew pilot, you will be eligible to apply for a permanent position of employment with easyJet.
Pilots operating as a CTC FlexiCrew pilot with easyJet can expect to operate, but cannot be guaranteed, a minimum of 750 flying hours in any one 365 day period.

In reality, one pays c.109k to be rostered out to a recruitment agency, then if it suits the employer (easyJet) you may be brought into their stable after 3 years? Would I be correct in my assumption?

- All cited material sourced from CTC website -
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 17:11
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 17,441
That's pretty much it.

Wanna hear about the years of hardship, penury and tough flying jobs I risked my life on in my journey to an airline job? No. Nobody does.

But before we travel too far down the rosy tinted memory lane lets not forget that to be getting a job in a big FTSE100 listed airline in a 70ton jet was until fairly recently a wannabes wet dream and about as likely.

Like so often in life you can either have your cake or eat it but not both.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 18:14
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Consultants contracted with the NHS 3 and a half day week full time.That's how they manage 1 and a half days doing private.One day private generally nets about 5K.
WWW I'm glad you love your job so much,I just got bored after 25years of saying checked and set and sitting in a broom cupboard watching clouds go by.My 3 times tables are brilliant though.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 18:54
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
I recently flew with a young guy who had been dumped by Easy as one of the trainers didn't like him.He had done the CTC/New Zealand thing and now he owes loads of money and has very little chance of getting a job as he has n experience.
Firstly what a the Easy head trainer was to chop him.I remember the walking ego his was when I was with Easy 12 years ago but I think this sums up the dumb idiots that inhabit the loco pilot world.
The pilot was really good for what it's worth.
I so wish I too could fly a 70 tonne ,550 mph FTSE 100 airplane but I am not a .
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 19:17
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 388
Not Orange,

The training system at EZY does not allow 1 trainer to dislike a cadet and then decide for them to be chopped. Quite frankly if he was let go by EZY then it would have been due to consistent poor performance, possibly combined with a bad attitude.

The decision to drop anybody is not taken likely, and certainly would be a majority decision after various re-training packages. EZY standards are high and a number of people struggle to reach that level required.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 19:46
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Kent
Posts: 3
Not orange , I think you hit the nail on the head . When someone doesn't make the grade & gets dropped , it's a response which generally confirms the training system works when individuals blame the trainers .

It's a very mature thing to look at yourself & seek help to improve , to attempt to understand & remedy your failings & quite the opposite to blame the trainer .

I find the more these pay to fly schemes develop , the more these cadets feel they are paying for a service & the training Captain's job is to get them through !
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 19:51
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Ok fair enough I don't know the full facts of the case but I think if Easy want pilots that way they should interview them before they embark on a massive financial commitment and make sure they are the sort of person they want.
I just don't know how you can go to a bank manager at 21 and say can I have 110K for the possibility of a job.I reckon my bank manager would have floods of tears rolling down his face if I asked that 25 years ago.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 20:09
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 415
Ok fair enough I don't know the full facts of the case but I think if Easy want pilots that way they should interview them before they embark on a massive financial commitment and make sure they are the sort of person they want.
That's exactly what happens now.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 20:17
  #59 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 640
The problem www is that selection is dependent upon having 110k.

Yes flying has always had a cost barrier to entry for most, but this is a whole new level and is really selection based upon parents funding.

Other companies such as BA have found a way around this but ezy couldn't give a stuff and the calibre will reflect this.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 11:23
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
Other companies such as BA have found a way around this but ezy couldn't give a stuff and the calibre will reflect this.
That's the key issue for me. We all know flight training is expensive and CTC are entitled to make a profit. But instead of EZY rolling over and letting cadets take all the burden, a simple loan guarantee would ensure the risk is spread and there are no financial barriers to applying. In turn, CTC wouldn't be able to hike prices year on year as EZY would be exposed to too much debt. If their own claims of a 35000+ salary from day 1 are accurate there's no risk of defaults anyway is there, so why not back the loans?
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