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Thomson recruitment.

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Thomson recruitment.

Old 8th Sep 2015, 07:27
  #321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Leave is 42 days pro rated, you can bid initially for 2 weeks in summer and then top up later. The rules are really complicated! Leave has wrap around days and extra gold days can be added as well so a 7 day block can end up being more like 10 or 11. Seniority has very little effect on leave, mostly it's how many point you have accrued. August and Xmas leave is mega points, November negligible.
32 days per annum for new PPY50 joiners, 7 days allocated in first summer, new pilots allocated scores as if they have achieved peak in last 3 seasons.

Company have said pilots won't be able to surrender summer leave for next year, e.g. Don't take 2 weeks in summer and get 4 in winter instead due to winter work requirements....so why hire ppy50 and not full time Fo/so ?

Carmen, blocks of days of are not penalised, single days off are. 99% of my days off over the last year or two have been in blocks of at least two, more like 3.
carmen blocks of days off are indeed penalised, a rule set is set to prevent this as it does for single days off, confirmed by Carmen Manager at hug a pilot conference day 2 years ago.
Carmen works for some people less so for others, I find the most successful people are those who just prefer earlies or lates. Or maybe SSH night stops, trying to get a specific day off through Carmen is difficult:
Carmen will only ever work if we have the right number of pilots, this has not been the case for many years, satisfaction seems to be better in the winter when flying programme is quieter which confirms the above or based at a larger base.
Block window still applies on all duties, 2 hours either side.
Crewing been so desperate this year they have agreed with union that Flexi gets paid if you operate outside this too (if you want), see point above about pilot shortage.
Staff travel is pretty good, you are sorta correct but it depends on what you want to book, sensatory hotels for example is your concession (increases with length of service) applied to 70% of the cost so you may only need to pay the 30% in cash. If your concession isn't quite enough then you can top it up with monthly pre tax deductions from your salary. If however you want to travel around Australia and fly Emirates then the discount is way less, I reckon you would need to pay the 75% and use your concessions on 25%, Im guessing a little here as I've never used it on a scheduled carrier.
Agreed, however unfortunately the value of concessions has not increased in 15+ years vs annual holiday prices increasing 5-10% per annum thus rendering them less valuable each year that passes.
Pensions... well I don't know what's happening there, it's actually been stipulated form board/European level as we currently have the highest pension contribution in the group, not sure what's going to happen but the union are fighting hard to keep it at 15%. I think minimum contribution is 3% but most do more
It is a management type of argument, why should pilots get a bigger pension (15% for 3.5%) than management who get less..... Find me a manager that invested 130k in their careers, hopefully the union are still pushing this below the surface otherwise there will likely be a mass kick off as all expect the next step will be to apply this to current pilots, same strategy used when they closed final scheme to new joiners initially....

There is suggestion that the company plan to offer current PPY50 pilots work this year in the winter without the requirement to go overseas on detachment (good news) , this should trigger the, you will then be made permanent full time clause for all said pilots, guess what.... They have said they 'might' offer full time in May to some (different to what agreement/contract says - Bad news) so believe the being made full time after 5 years at your own peril.

it is the same agreements that says you will be made permanent if there is winter work, understandably many ppy50 pilots are annoyed and some now event talking about moving on having been here a while as they don't expect the company to abide to the 5 year term.

There is some misconception that PPY50 pilots should be grateful for the winter work for one season rather than their terms being upheld ?! No one has reached the 5 year promotion point yet, so it remains to be seen if they deliver on that part of the agreement... Be sure to recognise the uncertainty of this when making any decisions and it doesn't look like the union is insisting their trigger to full time clause be enforced for a reason only known to the union and company.

As a final thought, remember the company is very vulnerable to security issues e.g. Tunisia if for example there was an attack in Egypt this would have significant impact on winter work, all it would take is for FCO advice to change on sharm el sheikh where it is all getting a bit exciting in the Sinai Peninsula with ISIS, I fear it will only be a matter of time.

Good luck with decisions.
youthinkso is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 08:49
  #322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the real world
Posts: 361
Wow, talk about taking an informative post and putting a negative spin on it all!

I'm confused about the Carmen issue, why would Carmen be programmed to penalise blocks of days off? We all have to have a minimum number so what would be the point of penalising blocks when it also penalises singles? Therefore there's a rule set to prevent any day offered though we have to have them? That makes no sense.

And Carmen works for me just fine, as I said I think most people expect too much from it.
DooblerChina is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 09:12
  #323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Wow, talk about taking an informative post and putting a negative spin on it all!
Just factual information, same as your post, many established pilots are not fully aware of the PPY50 pilots concerns, which the new joiners will be subject to.

I'm confused about the Carmen issue, why would Carmen be programmed to penalise blocks of days off?
Productivity - roster someone four days off then 7 on and same again over 28 days you need more days off in the month to achieve long consecutive working patterns,throw the odd one or two between long blocks of work and you need less days off over the month, of course it means you can't ask someone to do overtime without impacting remaining roster.

We all have to have a minimum number so what would be the point of penalising blocks when it also penalises singles?
As above, Only reason singles are penalised are because they are part of rostering agreement, otherwise I'm sure they would all be singles apart from legal requirements,penalising blocks of days off is a rostering efficiency rule rather than industrial agreement compliance rule as single days off.

Ps holiday concessions also pro-rated due to ppy50 status
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 10:08
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Well I still dont get it, I can only go of what my roster says and right now I am in the middle of a block of 4 BDOs, and I cant remember having had a single days off this year.

You say you are highlighting facts to help potential recruits but I cant help but feel a negative spin is being put on it, maybe you are PPY and peeved off? I dont know, but to state some facts of my own and to correct the rostering scare story. Since the start of the season, only .4% of days off are single BDOs on the 737, and on both the 756/787 fleets single BDOs account for .3% of days off.

Therefore, 99.6 - 99.7% of days off are in BLOCKS of at least two or more.
DooblerChina is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 11:17
  #325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Hi yes roster statistics show % of single BDO, on the system! I think we think of a "block" differently! I don't think 2 days off is a block of days off, to me 3-4 days off is a block, but that is subjective. I rarely achieve more than 2 consecutive days off, but stats not available for that.

Re negative spin, again just fact, don't think either of us have typed anything not factually correct. If people have all the facts they can make a well informed decision PPY50 issues are very real and relevant to recruitment consideration.

Last edited by youthinkso; 8th Sep 2015 at 11:40.
youthinkso is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 11:23
  #326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by youthinkso View Post
Hi yes roster statistics show % of single BDO, on the system! I think we think of a "block" differently! I don't think 2 days off is a block of days off, to me 3-4 days off is a block, but that is subjective. I rarely achieve more than 2 consecutive days off, but stats not available for that.

Re negative spin, again just fact, don't think either of us have typed anything not factually incorrect. If people have all the facts they can make a well informed decision PPY50 issues are very real and relevant to recruitment consideration.
Hey listen I totally oppose the PPY situation and I think some small changes (the 7k bond and a reduction from 5 years to 3) would make quite a difference to the offering. But we can not change the fact that no body is forcing people to join on this deal. I actually hope more than anything that the company can't fill the slots as that would have to improve things, But I do worry that they will be over subscribed as usual.
DooblerChina is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 11:51
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
I agree, the elephant in the room though is the fact that PPY50 pilots have had winter work for 2 consecutive years now yet the company does not employ them full time as per the contract and worthy of serious consideration, it demonstrates a lot of uncertainty for new joiners and draws in to question if they will be given full time at 5 year point. It affects a lot, leave, pay, sick pay, phi, pension, concessions, loss of licence amounts....... This is in effect the same as a +7k bond for 5 years plus the initial 7k for 1-3 years.

If not careful the next argument offered will be that they don't have to make up ppy50 pilots like the agreements say because custom and practice demonstrates they have not done it for the last 2 years.... Hopefully the union have a grasp on it
youthinkso is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2015, 12:55
  #328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: in geosynchronous orbit
Posts: 86
Any info no matter when you joined ???

Hi all,
Does anyone have any information no matter how old about the tech questions that can be anticipated at assessment ???
Is it in depth ATPL Stuff ( I did them years ago) or type specific to the applican as the Airline who cannot be named on here operating in the ME uses ?
Any info no matter how insignificant will go a long way ....currently rereading BRISTOW....any other ideas ...anyone ???
Thanks
manflexsrsrwy is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2015, 14:00
  #329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 332
Tech element is new this year, so not much info regarding what's involved.
McBruce is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2015, 14:24
  #330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 13
Been called, NTR. No mention of a sim ride? Any ideas as to how many people will be at each assessment day?
Code93 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2015, 21:10
  #331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 13
Hi everyone. I have been invited, non-type rated. I picked a day in the first cluster of assessment days. Should everyone expect to wait for a yes/no call for a few weeks until all assessment days have run? Also does anyone know what kind of time-frame re type rating course start dates are Thomson looking at?

O and whats for lunch on the day of assessment?
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Old 12th Sep 2015, 20:53
  #332 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Whatever sandwich you make😆😂
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 18:38
  #333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,625
Uthinkso

Crewing been so desperate this year they have agreed with union that Flexi gets paid if you operate outside this too (if you want), see point above about pilot shortage
How about "we" rather than Crewing e.g. The Airline

It is a management type of argument, why should pilots get a bigger pension (15% for 3.5%) than management who get less..... Find me a manager that invested 130k in their careers
Um wonder how many BY Pilots have invested 130k in their careers any idea on a % of crew?, most I know came up the ladder might have been bonded here and there. The old argument for the higher pension was early retirement that no longer applies.

Maybe the Manager could argue he deserves a similar pension "Find me a Pilot that works anywhere near as hard as I do"
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 07:57
  #334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Um wonder how many BY Pilots have invested 130k in their careers any idea on a % of crew?
. I wonder what % of crew who have joined on new pilot terms in the last 3 years are loaded with said debt from investing in their career....


The old argument for the higher pension was early retirement that no longer applies.
The new joiner payscales created 3 years ago (when retirement age was 65) were based on 15% pension contribution and total remuneration over average career length, If the pension is being cut to 10% and then 7% ish for new joiners then new joiner pay scales need to be uplifted by the same amount to keep the career remuneration the same, you can't really expect no backslash in the company trying to reduce career earnings for new pilots, it's in effect a declaration of war on the pilots !
youthinkso is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2015, 20:32
  #335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Derby
Posts: 23
As they have received many more applications than places available on the selection days the first obstacle is the application form. Any mistakes and the applicant is passed over regardless of experience.
double-oscar is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2015, 10:59
  #336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Anyone who didn't answer any of the questions on the application form or put N/A was stripped out.
yeoman is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2015, 23:52
  #337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Earth
Age: 30
Posts: 87
Anyone who didn't answer any of the questions on the application form or put N/A was stripped out.
As somebody with no 737-300/500 time, what was one supposed to put as an answer to this question then?

PFO, 1000 hours on the NG.
StevieW is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2015, 13:04
  #338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Uk
Posts: 2
NTR 2700TT. 800hrs jet. Im attending an assessment day next month. Any info on the assessment day would be greatly appreciated. PM if you prefer. Has anyone been to their assessment day yet? I'm particularly interested in the details of the technical test.
vectorsvictor is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2015, 19:50
  #339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Uk
Posts: 2
Hi I'm NTR. 2700 hrs TT. 800 hrs Jet.
I have an assessment day next month. The format on the day is a Group exercise, case study and technical test in the morning. If successful then interview PM. If anybody is reading this who went to this type of selection during the last round of recruitment with Thomson then I'd really appreciate some feedback on what to expect to aid my preparation (no doubt others would too). Has anybody been to their current assessments already or do you have one soon? For anybody who does go would you be kind enough to post feedback to help fellow pilots? (that would be very useful). I don't believe we are competing against each other. We are pushing ourselves to reach a standard. I believe an airline worth working for will maintain their integrity on standards.


I'm particularly interested in what the technical test entails. ATPL theory or aptitude/maths verbal reasoning or a combination of both? Maybe type specific questions on your current type?


Any feedback from current assessments coming up will be very handy for all of us with assessments. I will post feedback after mine on this forum or PM if you'd prefer. I'm hoping someone before my assessment early October will have the same mindset as me to help others. PM me if you prefer. For those who didn't get an assessment and not sure why. There were some questions which required some thinking about to give a reasonable answer. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe they're looking for more from a pilot than just flying hours.
Good luck in all your careers everybody!


regards
vectorsvictor is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2015, 12:16
  #340 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
Very strange. PFO received few weeks ago, been invited via email today to attend?!
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