Monarch in turbulence
if an airport is changed say from LGW to STN then the CAA has arranged transport back
pax due to fly home after 16 Oct will have to rebook and pay for new flights themselves - (even with an Atol - those protected folk will have to rebook and claim costs from CAA)
they should get their money back from their own credit/debit card company for the loss of their Monarch tickets.
if they have travel insurance with an end user or airline failure cover then the new flight costs will be covered as will any hotel/meal expenses which can be claimed for plus delay cover too.
pax with flights any booked out to travel From the UK - same applies if no atol certificate held on the booking - they have lost their Monarch booking and money - so they need to claim this back from bank card companies and or travel insurances if they have suitable cover.
if they have an ATOL certificate then they can claim their money back from the CAA.
Last edited by rog747; 4th Oct 2017 at 16:07.
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Thomson opening recruitment
The following is extracted from an email to TOM pilots from the Plot Manager responsible for recruitment:
"We are advertising for all Type Rated Positions as well as Non Type Rated.
External Comms Campaign Link: https://goo.gl/bPkzk4
An additional link is also being created & will be sent to the Monarch HR & Outplacement Support Team shortly later today.
A number of you have emailed me today re Monarch friends who are TR but very low hour (our criteria is 330 hrs on Type) – please advise them to apply through the Type Rated Link. If they don’t have a 75/76/73 or 787 TR they MUST apply as Non Type Rated
Hope this is helpful, Kathryn"
"We are advertising for all Type Rated Positions as well as Non Type Rated.
External Comms Campaign Link: https://goo.gl/bPkzk4
An additional link is also being created & will be sent to the Monarch HR & Outplacement Support Team shortly later today.
A number of you have emailed me today re Monarch friends who are TR but very low hour (our criteria is 330 hrs on Type) – please advise them to apply through the Type Rated Link. If they don’t have a 75/76/73 or 787 TR they MUST apply as Non Type Rated
Hope this is helpful, Kathryn"
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highfive - not sure there are many 'much higher qualified pilots are either waiting an interview' than the Monarch guys. Many of them have flown the A300 and A330 for years as both Captains and FOs. They also have countless sectors on Airbuses to their name - a very useful quality for long haul guys when take-offs and landings are in short supply.
However, my point is that there is an extensive application procedure to go through with most airlines, inc VA. To then fast track a bunch of pilots, simply based on the fact they have time on type and are unemployed, goes against the philosophy of their selection process. A lot of Ex Monarch captains will have never experienced psychometric testing, as it was not common in the industry 20 years ago. A fast track process indicates that you have a higher chance of success than a similar candidate who has recently applied, with similar practical job experience.
Finally, if Monarch was still afloat, few of its pilots would be applying for VA, Easy et al. Wouldn't it be better, in the long run, for a company to take a pilot who is actually motivated & applying for a position in that company, not simply because they are on hard times? Several current Mid East B787 pilots are awaiting their VA start dates. Should they be under cut because another pilot is allowed fast track?
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Yes.
That's fair enough in my book.
Surely a Captain with 25 years experience is preferable to some snowflake who's practiced loads of online psychometric tests..
But, but, it's not FAIR! Spoken like a true snowflake.
That's fair enough in my book.
Surely a Captain with 25 years experience is preferable to some snowflake who's practiced loads of online psychometric tests..
But, but, it's not FAIR! Spoken like a true snowflake.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Highfive,
I would suggest that it is an entirely positive thing that UK companies have seen fit to make mutually beneficial arrangements to keep recently redundant UK pilots in a job.
If I were employed by a middle eastern carrier the theme of "undercutting" is one I would well and truly avoid. Middle eastern carriers do not compete on a level playing field with legacy carriers. It is hypocritical to selectively cry foul when it suits your personal interests.
I would suggest that it is an entirely positive thing that UK companies have seen fit to make mutually beneficial arrangements to keep recently redundant UK pilots in a job.
If I were employed by a middle eastern carrier the theme of "undercutting" is one I would well and truly avoid. Middle eastern carriers do not compete on a level playing field with legacy carriers. It is hypocritical to selectively cry foul when it suits your personal interests.
Last edited by speedrestriction; 6th Oct 2017 at 16:46.
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I think the agenda lies at the feet of the poster. At the end of the day who gives a squat about psychometric testing, online tests, application limitations and group exercises etc, we all know it's a scheme to eliminate candidates and to stop a certain demographic applying. The restrictions are there because, well because they can afford to be fussy. You may not be old enough to remember but there used to be an equally good way of recruiting pilots, it involved talking to them for an hour to spot the undesirable, then stick them in the sim quickly. Believe it or not this avenue still works and of course a year x captain wouldn't apply to Virgin to be a first officer, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't want to work for them, I also would like to apply there, but I'd rather the guys who have no income coming in had the opportunity first, you can't begrudge them that. There is no dodgy ground, everyone has the right to rebuild their careers and start afresh.
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Who said they had priority? All that's happened is they have been fast tracked through the application process, I'm sure nobody will be recruited if the VS bods don't like them.
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If you can advertise a job that asks you to not bother applying unless you're a graduate from a red brick university then by the same token you can have one that prefers candidates from a certain commercial background. Airlines currently advertising fast track applications from Monarch pilots:
Virgin
EasyJet
Norwegian
Ryanair (yuk)
I think Emirates are about to launch a targeted campaign too.
Virgin
EasyJet
Norwegian
Ryanair (yuk)
I think Emirates are about to launch a targeted campaign too.
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I can see both sides to this argument. On on hand yes it nice companies are looking to recruit Monarch guys on the other hand if I was currently sat in the hold pool at Virgin and was now being pushed aside in favour of Mon pilots I would feel very hard done by. Monarch's failure was a tragedy but let's be honest not an entirely unpredictable one. The guys who stayed did so fully aware of the potential risks but chose to remain anyway, to now prioritise them over other people strikes as slightly unfair to me but hey since when has this industry been fair.
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If you weren't in , you were out on your a$s.
Now the industry is so regimented in its bias towards
psyco based recruitment.
But , If a company has a ridgid recruitment process , surely to then invite all and sundry to fast track around this character based assesment is belittling those that have done it through the regular , none fast track, channels ?
Through the back door is never good. Although it was a common way into an airline, based on knowing Roger from way back , hopefully that nepatism has been reduced.
But its the same old same. Ex Mon Training Capt Pete knows Recruitment manager Jim at XYZ and by fast tracking , its a way of saying , we know youre a good fella, now come this way, no need for all that psyco namdey pandy nonesense.
Now , fancy a Sherry , old chap?
Whether we like it or not, pysco evaluation has been part of the aviation world for many years & like CRM it is here to stay, it has to be lived with & is an integral part of day to day flying.
That said & absolutely no disrespect whatsover to the less experienced Chap or Lass, but if I was at 30W 390 on a dark night & it all went to worms, I would wish those at the pointed end, to have had many years of practical flying experience, over those having done a few pysco tests & not as much of the practical flying.
That said & absolutely no disrespect whatsover to the less experienced Chap or Lass, but if I was at 30W 390 on a dark night & it all went to worms, I would wish those at the pointed end, to have had many years of practical flying experience, over those having done a few pysco tests & not as much of the practical flying.
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I wouldn't go getting all excited about VS. I read, somewhere, half their about 40 current slots will be for Monarch guys and girls. I'm sure Vs will still be tempted by rated on their aircraft. Makes sense. Unless they actually needed and had the training capacity for all 40 of them tomorrow, waiting 3 months notice period to take on someone for a quick OCC and line flights for a 78 rated person makes more sense than fully rating a 737 pilot tomorrow. VS know that. Chill people. It's good they have options (mon pilots)....
Last edited by Cliff Secord; 7th Oct 2017 at 07:27.
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Plenty of options for them...
I hope they don't have to go anywhere rubbish like small planet...
Historically I was told VA didn't look favourably on people who are redundant applying as they should be super keen to join, and not just because they no longer have a job. Maybe a change of policy ?
I hope they don't have to go anywhere rubbish like small planet...
Historically I was told VA didn't look favourably on people who are redundant applying as they should be super keen to join, and not just because they no longer have a job. Maybe a change of policy ?
There is a world of difference between the selection process required for inexperienced and experienced pilots. There will of course be a range of abilities, but the process is a lot simpler and if they are type rated much shorter and of course cheaper. The question why they are looking for a job also does not arise with the Monarch pilots. So all in all they are ideal ready entries.
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Who says the non Monarch guys in the hold pool are non rated? Any one of them could have left to go to Virgin any time they liked over the last 3 years but chose not to, seems unfair to me that people who might well be rated and actually want the VR job might miss out. But as I said it's not a fair industry.
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Confused
I am a bit confused Enzo, is there actually a hold pool of people who have passed selection at VS within the last 3 years? I only ask as I know they have recruited plenty of people into the 330 over the last year who went through selection and offered jobs with no hold?
So if that's the case then I wouldn't vent my anger at the monarch guy's as this was happening way before that companies demise.
So if that's the case then I wouldn't vent my anger at the monarch guy's as this was happening way before that companies demise.
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I am not venting anger I am simply saying that "if" rated interested people are being sidelined in favour of Monarch guys that seems incredibly unfair given the total lack of interest any of those guys have shown in working for Virgin over the last few years If that's not the case then no problem (but there are plenty of people on the VR thread that are saying this is happening). As to wether VR have a hold pool I have no idea, but would be incredibly surprised if they don't.