Monarch in turbulence
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: UK
I will be sad if they go - I had hoped to work for them at some point. But I hope the guys are all getting applications out to get in elsewhere ahead of those who want a change of employer rather than are looking at likely redundancy. As much as I would like Mon to survive, I think it's unlikely in the circumstances. I'm sure everyone has dusted off their CVs. I've been there once, and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Hope you all land on your feet.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 225
Likes: 26
From: London, UK
LNIDA BS
LNIDA, you continue to spout BS, particularly if you think MAEL is profitable. Why do you think they might be profitable? Your naivety is breathtaking!
Monarch has been comfortable in easy's and FR's "turf" since they were born and only has 15% non-scheduled work left so it is hardly a major shift in emphasis from where we are now to move to 100% scheduled.
Mon has been taking on easy and FR for a decade or more and is no 1 or 2 on all the routes it competes with them on. And that's WITH all the cost base issues!
If those cost base issues are pretty much instantly removed by the restructure, the company (which was profitable last year let's remember) will clearly be able to compete very well.
I know you guys in easy and FR don't like it, but the fact is that you are
yourselves. If you are all so good at what you do, why have you failed to eliminate Monarch over the last 15 years? Benevolent shareholder? No, ruthless shareholder who is a multi-billionaire for a reason. He may exit the airline, but that doesn't mean he's exiting the game - the airline is but a small pawn in his game.
Monarch has been comfortable in easy's and FR's "turf" since they were born and only has 15% non-scheduled work left so it is hardly a major shift in emphasis from where we are now to move to 100% scheduled.
Mon has been taking on easy and FR for a decade or more and is no 1 or 2 on all the routes it competes with them on. And that's WITH all the cost base issues!
If those cost base issues are pretty much instantly removed by the restructure, the company (which was profitable last year let's remember) will clearly be able to compete very well.
I know you guys in easy and FR don't like it, but the fact is that you are
yourselves. If you are all so good at what you do, why have you failed to eliminate Monarch over the last 15 years? Benevolent shareholder? No, ruthless shareholder who is a multi-billionaire for a reason. He may exit the airline, but that doesn't mean he's exiting the game - the airline is but a small pawn in his game.
Last edited by Rushed Approach; 23rd September 2014 at 21:28.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Joined: Jul 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,793
Likes: 2,317
From: UK
I know you guys in easy and FR don't like it, but the fact is that you are yourselves. If you are all so good at what you do, why have you failed to eliminate Monarch over the last 15 years?
yourselves. If you are all so good at what you do, why have you failed to eliminate Monarch over the last 15 years?
Turning it round, why have Monarch allowed EZJ and RYR to become 200+ and 300+ fleets generating profits of £500,000,000 per year in the last 15 years?
easyJet Moderator
Joined: Sep 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2,551
From: Schloss Neuschwanstein
Rushed approach - I have to say that your post has an air of fantasy and delusion about it. Monarch has not been competing with easyJet and Ryanair as number one for more than a decade. If they had done so, they would not be in the mess they are now. They have older aircraft, outdated conditions and have fiddled while Rome burnt around them. Whilst easyJet and Ryanair have built up massive fleets with corresponding massive economies of scale, Monarch have soldiered on believing they could carry on as they always have. Their financial benefactors have at last come to their senses and realised they cannot keep pouring money into a bottomless pit. Nobody wishes the situation on anyone, but these are the consequences of a terrible and unworkable business model that denied the realities of what was going on around them. Talk of the new fleet is equal fantasy, and I just do not see them converting every single Airbus pilot to fly the Boeing 737.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 77
Likes: 2
From: Crawley
Not wanting to state the blindingly obvious to anybody with a sane mind, but surely the better plan would be to try to raise the locos ts and cs to the ts and cs that the likes of Monarch and the operators who have tried to look out for PEOPLE better in the industry.
To the sort of levels of ts and cs the industry historically have always rightly enjoyed, and to be fair deserved, and to avoid the current situation whereby regression of the decent operators down to the "bargain basement/plastic coat/4sector day/I'm all right jack/cadet heavy recruitment/get your pound of flesh" type operation seems de rigeur and the accepted modus operandi in the UK these days
Monarch have to remain, they have to grow stronger to help regress the powerful motion and the expansion of the loco operators, not just for those involved in life changing situations at Monarch at present but for the good of all for the future.
Just a thought.
To the sort of levels of ts and cs the industry historically have always rightly enjoyed, and to be fair deserved, and to avoid the current situation whereby regression of the decent operators down to the "bargain basement/plastic coat/4sector day/I'm all right jack/cadet heavy recruitment/get your pound of flesh" type operation seems de rigeur and the accepted modus operandi in the UK these days
Monarch have to remain, they have to grow stronger to help regress the powerful motion and the expansion of the loco operators, not just for those involved in life changing situations at Monarch at present but for the good of all for the future.
Just a thought.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Crew hotel
I was told the other day what FR crew earn in Europe...
New Captain £39k basic (!!), and for FOs £0k basic, although a seemingly generous £84 an hour (all in). Presumably no pension etc, etc.
And in the recent past at EZY, the flexiscrew deal with cadets paying 10k for rating, to be paid only £1200 a month for the summer season, presumably laid off in winter.
And the airline up north with their summer only contractors, or 50% of 70% pay, all competing head on with MON.
little wonder it's been a struggle in recent years....
New Captain £39k basic (!!), and for FOs £0k basic, although a seemingly generous £84 an hour (all in). Presumably no pension etc, etc.
And in the recent past at EZY, the flexiscrew deal with cadets paying 10k for rating, to be paid only £1200 a month for the summer season, presumably laid off in winter.
And the airline up north with their summer only contractors, or 50% of 70% pay, all competing head on with MON.
little wonder it's been a struggle in recent years....
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,579
Likes: 142
From: Under the clouds now
I'm not sure of the wisdom of BALPA issuing a press statement about Monarch's troubles. Once it becomes public knowledge bookings could drop as potential customers take up defensive positions and book seats with the opposition. I remember Laker flying across the Atlantic with crippling low load factors as rumours of their demise spread.
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Gatwick
Greybull will make a great deal from Monarch's maintenance dept which has made money for a long time now by repackaging & selling on . It's the less lucrative parts of the company that will most likely be left by the wayside .
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: UK
So what's the latest on redundancies at MON? Will there be compulsory redundancies amongst pilots or are the union trying to negotiate alternatives? How senior an FO is at risk (in terms of years served)? Hope it doesn't come to that....
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Gatwick
Buster the bear
Once you have signed the VR and started your redundancy period you can leave at your will, you will get redundancy, but you will lose your notice pay, unless some other agreement is in place, by making you redundant the company is saying we don't need you, but must still given your notice or pay in lieu of notice, PIL & redundancy pay will normally be tax free up to a value of £30k a figure that has been the same for at least 20 years, a proper stealth tax
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,579
Likes: 142
From: Under the clouds now
PIL & redundancy pay will normally be tax free up to a value of £30k a figure that has been the same for at least 20 years, a proper stealth tax