BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[RexBanner]

No more Short Haul courses until the end of the summer schedule according to latest Comms on yammer.

[Stall-turn-Go]

Holdpool

Hi All,
I’ve been in the BA holdpool for just over 2 months now. Slightly unexpected as we were told during the process that the holdpool was pretty much non-existent and to expect to be called up very quickly. Anyone else been waiting that long, or would anyone that’s recently received an offer be able to let me know how long they were waiting before it came?
cheers

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by Stall-turn-Go

Hi All,
I’ve been in the BA holdpool for just over 2 months now. Slightly unexpected as we were told during the process that the holdpool was pretty much non-existent and to expect to be called up very quickly. Anyone else been waiting that long, or would anyone that’s recently received an offer be able to let me know how long they were waiting before it came?
cheers

I don’t think the new chap in recruitment and manpower planning has a clue what is going on. Granted he’s been chucked in at the deep end with a new team, but he’s sent pilots out of seniority for commands, which will cost tens of thousands in pass over pay, and there just isn’t enough external applicants coming in. Heard it on good authority this week that pilots aren’t turning up for their courses. One chap went to TUI on the 787 this week instead of BA 320.

[Hank Moody]

Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123

TUI is probably the best at the moment.

Unless you’re French or Dutch. KLM pay a massive bonus if TR on joining

I don’t know what kind of TR bonus you’re talking about regarding KLM.
-we do get a compensation if we still have a pilot loan on the date of joining.
-this year is the last year we get a compensation for slashing klms pension contribution to the half. For the last four years. Next year back to normal pension contribution(which is much better than the compensation)

[The Foss]

Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123

TUI is probably the best at the moment.

Unless you’re French or Dutch. KLM pay a massive bonus if TR on joining

I wouldn’t think so - there’s people leaving TUI after less than a year to join as type rated 787 at BA. Came across one who’d left tui for a320 as well. Be surprised if any going the other way.

[SEBBES]

Originally Posted by The Foss

I wouldn’t think so - there’s people leaving TUI after less than a year to join as type rated 787 at BA. Came across one who’d left tui for a320 as well. Be surprised if any going the other way.

Just to play devils advocate, on my TUI initials course, 3 of the 12 had turned down courses at BA. 2 of them offered 787 and the other, 320. All opting for TUI 737 instead.

[Enzo999]

Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123

To be fair I don’t know any moving either way but rosters I have seen plus remuneration, TUI is not bad.

How many FOs year 1 or 2 at BA grossing 90k?

I know of 3 at TUI from the 6 I personally know.

Please give details? I would say something has gone badly wrong with TUIs staffing levels if they are giving every new FO in the business 3 day off working payments a month, even more remarkable considering the seasonality issue of their business.

[SEBBES]

I'd say 600 hours quoted above as being a slight exaggeration. At least in my experience - on the 73 fleet my average was around 700 - which when you consider for the winter period I averaged 4/5 flights (even as little as 1 flight) per month, it gives a taste of how busy the summer can be.
the figures quoted above in regards to FOs earning potential within TUI can also be true, but is by no means guaranteed. It has nothing to do with the crewing levels being wrong though. As a charter airline, it has to be adaptable, and therefore crewing at around 80% and offering considerable remuneration to pilots willing to work on days off, is actually cheaper in the long run than having a surplus of pilots and paying for pensions, national insurance, etc for the next however many years. Most duties attract 2 WDO payments, some even 3 - so its quickly quite easy to see how 90k is achievable if 1. The opportunity to work on days off is there, and 2. You are willing to be flexible.

[wiggy]

Reading some off the above I'm beginning to understand and believe some of the rumours going around that people haven't been turning up for courses and perhaps have headed elsewhere...

[clamchowder]

Originally Posted by SEBBES

I'd say 600 hours quoted above as being a slight exaggeration. At least in my experience - on the 73 fleet my average was around 700 - which when you consider for the winter period I averaged 4/5 flights (even as little as 1 flight) per month, it gives a taste of how busy the summer can be.
the figures quoted above in regards to FOs earning potential within TUI can also be true, but is by no means guaranteed. It has nothing to do with the crewing levels being wrong though. As a charter airline, it has to be adaptable, and therefore crewing at around 80% and offering considerable remuneration to pilots willing to work on days off, is actually cheaper in the long run than having a surplus of pilots and paying for pensions, national insurance, etc for the next however many years. Most duties attract 2 WDO payments, some even 3 - so its quickly quite easy to see how 90k is achievable if 1. The opportunity to work on days off is there, and 2. You are willing to be flexible.

I'm sure there is an obvious reason, but why haven't BA adopted this style? Company reduces costs + pilots make more = winwin?

[Twiglet1]

Originally Posted by Enzo999

Please give details? I would say something has gone badly wrong with TUIs staffing levels if they are giving every new FO in the business 3 day off working payments a month, even more remarkable considering the seasonality issue of their business.

Enzo999
Your obviously new to the business, Tui/Thomson have adopted this process since Pontius was a Pilot - well for at least 20 years I imagine.
They were the first Airline to work out to cover 3 flights a day you need 3 standby crews. Or, just 1 Pilot on a day off payment. 1 or even 3 days off payments is also cheaper than a sub charter - Simples and keeps the Nigels happy

[Twiglet1]

Originally Posted by clamchowder

I'm sure there is an obvious reason, but why haven't BA adopted this style? Company reduces costs + pilots make more = winwin?

Not sure it would work at BA but you have to remember you need to get the Accountable Manager and bean counters to sign up for it - those costly, moaning Nigel's should be on min days off mentality rules ok. You also have to remember eventually the tax man will get more greedy so there becomes a point when the reward is reduced,
In the old days of CAP371 it didn't take much for crews to work out if they flew on 2 days off the regs would likely mean they would get another 1-2 days off - result. Not so much under EASA FTL however tut tut.

[Tricia Takanawa]

BA do basically use the same model. Only there is a significant difference in reward. Less than 25% bonus over normal hourly rate. And people lap it up as soon as its available. Factor in no pension contributions on the above, and BA basically get the additional work covered for the standard hourly rate.

[Riskybis]

Yeah BAs day off payments were awful !

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by Tricia Takanawa

BA do basically use the same model. Only there is a significant difference in reward. Less than 25% bonus over normal hourly rate. And people lap it up as soon as its available. Factor in no pension contributions on the above, and BA basically get the additional work covered for the standard hourly rate.

USA:
Flying on day off: 200% (and sometimes more because last minute duties generally have deadheads attached that I don't have to do as a commuter. just got 20 hours of pay to work a 4 hour flight, I was gone from home 15 hours.) There is absolutely no chance anybody here would take a last minute assignment for 25%-115%pension=10%extra.

[Mrglass]

Could any kind soul decode the following gray / amber tiles from a crewlink roster:

CL
LA
LB
WR
BW
SW
S2, S3, S4, S5
NA
DD
ZZ
RP
PR
PL
PD
GT
GD
LFS
FDO
HSB

Also, looking at a roster (screenshot I took from a roadshow), how can you tell if it's 747, 777, 787 etc? Are the aircraft number coded? Where do I look?

Thank you.

[99jolegg]

CL - compassionate leave
LA - annual leave with wraparound days after x4
LB - annual leave with wraparound days before x3
WR - wrap around days off (workable)
BW - bank withdrawal
SW - not sure off the top of my head
S2, S3, S4, S5 - simulator. The number refers to the time slot. I2, I3, I4, I5 would refer to the instructor’s roster.
NA - non-assignable day associated with DD usually
DD - duty free week associated with NA day at the beginning. Can be worked in if desired.
ZZ - break, usually to denote days off after a trip on reserve
RP - reserve period
PR - protected day off, for a variety of reasons
PL - not sure EDIT: paternity leave
PD - part-time days off
GT - ground training e.g. SEP
GD - ground duty
LFS - Leading Flight Safety course
FDO - fixed days off associated with a reserve period
HSB - HSB associated with a reserve period

Depending on the roster format you’re looking at but you can usually tell by the destinations.

[wiggy]

Don’t know what SW is either but just a health warning that it would be best to be cautious of drawing too many conclusions if the rosters in question are from prior to Jan 19.

[WhatTheDeuce]

SW means the trip was swapped in some way.

[Ghostwing]

Anyone with an idea on when DEP might/will reopen?