Brookfield. . . . end game ?
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Brookfield. . . . end game ?
The UK Business secretary Vince Cable will today promise a crackdown on zero-hours contracts. Currently more than 2,000 pilots in Ryanair are hired on zero-hour contracts with no job or financial security whatsoever.
The Judge in the recent court case against Brookfield Aviation in the UK, HHJ Hand QC, described these working conditions as an “elaborate arrangement" and found the parts of the contract “quite bizarre"
IRN last week published an article on this area titled - The Brookfield Aviation case - what does it mean for the employment status of agency workers?. Visit the link here: Industrial Relations News - Ireland's weekly magazine covering industrial and employee relations issues
The Judge in the recent court case against Brookfield Aviation in the UK, HHJ Hand QC, described these working conditions as an “elaborate arrangement" and found the parts of the contract “quite bizarre"
IRN last week published an article on this area titled - The Brookfield Aviation case - what does it mean for the employment status of agency workers?. Visit the link here: Industrial Relations News - Ireland's weekly magazine covering industrial and employee relations issues
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We are all anticipating contractual changes and if history is to repeat itself then its an opportunity for them to chip something off again. Previously during some contractual changes BRK gave pilots 3 months notice but at the same time offered them a new contract - choice is technically work your notice and leave or sign the new contract. Its a fight that will have to be fought together, everyone following the same course of action as dictated by RPG but BRK will try and make you feel seperated from the gang.
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Any chance of pasting full article on here? You need to subscribe to read whole article through your link.
Very interesting as easy offering flexi-contracts to experienced pilots. Wonder how this will play out
Very interesting as easy offering flexi-contracts to experienced pilots. Wonder how this will play out
As long as there is demand for a jet seat at any cost, the supply will continue. New laws will just result in even more "elaborate and bizarre" contracts. Free enterprise is built into the human psyche; might as well try to shut down the drug trade.
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Captthunder - Just to clarify, easyJet are not offering flexicrew contracts in the way you describe to new pilots. They are being offered the 'New Entrant Contract' as agreed with BALPA and that is clearly stated to everyone who applies. The details of that are published on other threads, but the key thing is that all easyJet offers of employment are permanent jobs subject to passing a probationary year on pay by the hour with a minimum guarantee. You can argue whether one year is too long or not, but that is clearly stated to everyone beforehand what it will be. This is not Brookfield by the back door, which was the case previously. The era of flexicrew at easyJet is gone mercifully, after a long and tortuous battle. You may not like the terms and conditions being offered and therefore do not take the job. Those terms are, however, clearly published and there for everyone to see beforehand - there are no longer any secrets.
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Alexander - whatever you wish to call it, the first year is working for CTC on an hourly rate with no guarantees of how many hours you will be required (my understanding is that there is no guaranteed minimum - if you are not rqd you are not paid). That sounds pretty much like a zero hours contract to me. Your not even being paid by easyJet. Therefore you are not contracted to easyJet. Your contract is with CTC. After 12 months you are eligible to be interviewed for a permanent position with easyJet. Only then does your probationary period with easyJet start.
People can come up with wonderful titles & names for different contracts if they wish.
A job working through an intermediate company on an hourly rate with no obligation on the end users part, sounds just as bad as Brookfield. It just has a prettier name.
People can come up with wonderful titles & names for different contracts if they wish.
A job working through an intermediate company on an hourly rate with no obligation on the end users part, sounds just as bad as Brookfield. It just has a prettier name.
Last edited by Captthunder; 18th Sep 2013 at 13:12.
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A job working through an intermediate company on an hourly rate with no obligation on the end users part, sounds just as bad as Brookfield. It just has a prettier name.
One would need to examine the detail of the full contract T's & C's to make such a statement. Fro what has been said on here the BRK contract sounds pretty onerous. Is the CTC one the same? Either way the CTC 1 year contract could be considered an 'apprenticeship' deal and that is quite common in other industries. After that a full-time employee contract might be offered. Compare that to BRK.
One would need to examine the detail of the full contract T's & C's to make such a statement. Fro what has been said on here the BRK contract sounds pretty onerous. Is the CTC one the same? Either way the CTC 1 year contract could be considered an 'apprenticeship' deal and that is quite common in other industries. After that a full-time employee contract might be offered. Compare that to BRK.
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RAT 5 - get real!!!!
Many of the people being offered 1 year "apprenticeship" deals have held commands, have many thousands of hours on type and are proven entities on other AOC's.
If a 1 year "apprenticeship" is needed, it suggests to me one of these two possibilities:
1) easyJet are not confident of their own tried and tested recruitment methods, or;
2) They are taking the p1ss out of experienced pilots - and by extension all of us as professional pilots.
If a 1 year "apprenticeship" is needed, it suggests to me one of these two possibilities:
1) easyJet are not confident of their own tried and tested recruitment methods, or;
2) They are taking the p1ss out of experienced pilots - and by extension all of us as professional pilots.
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RAT - are you serious? I know captains with thousands of jet hours who have been offered a flexi contract (easyJet wording not mine) after applying for what they thought was a permanent direct entry First Officer position.
It may be under the name of "New entrant contract" but it involves working for the first 12 months on an hourly rate for CTC before you are even eligible to be considered employable by easyJet. In the recent assessments, easyJet staff continually called this arrangement a flexi contract and not new entrant contract.
Whatever you call it you are paid per hour. They don't need you, they don't pay you. Thats my understanding. Sounds exactly like a Zero hours contract hence my interest in this thread.
It may be under the name of "New entrant contract" but it involves working for the first 12 months on an hourly rate for CTC before you are even eligible to be considered employable by easyJet. In the recent assessments, easyJet staff continually called this arrangement a flexi contract and not new entrant contract.
Whatever you call it you are paid per hour. They don't need you, they don't pay you. Thats my understanding. Sounds exactly like a Zero hours contract hence my interest in this thread.
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1) easyJet are not confident of their own tried and tested recruitment methods, or;2) They are taking the p1ss out of experienced pilots - and by extension all of us as professional pilots.***
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Is it me or does anyone else find that some Easyjet crew are cast in a bubble? Whilst some of you may have some fantastic and lucrative positions, great roster patterns, high standards of training and modern, sophisticated aircraft you have your fair share of crap too (a la your much hated 'Irish' Competitor). The zero hour ctc/parc/flexicrew/new entrant contract or whatever you now call it is the same old crap. The possibility of a permanent position appears to give BALPA some sort of moral victory over the zero hour system? Would love to know the 'ins and outs' of this much coveted permanent deal also? Actually, on second thoughts, I don't.
The fact remains, you are a contractor for twelve months and can be turfed out the door or stood down at any time. EZY don't guarantee a permanent deal and I doubt they ever will nowadays. And even if you get one you appear to enter another probation period - as if twelve months flying for the same operator wasn't enough.
Easyjet doesn't have the moral high ground on Ryanair any longer.
The fact remains, you are a contractor for twelve months and can be turfed out the door or stood down at any time. EZY don't guarantee a permanent deal and I doubt they ever will nowadays. And even if you get one you appear to enter another probation period - as if twelve months flying for the same operator wasn't enough.
Easyjet doesn't have the moral high ground on Ryanair any longer.
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I've heard from friends who've recently interviewed with easyJet about the details of the new contracts being offered. To now find out that the contracts have been endorsed by BALPA is shocking! No other word for it. It's a laughable contract that people with many thousands of hours have applied for, in good faith, only to discover that they'll be paid a pittance and treated like a zero hour cadet.
A probationary year on pay by the hour? Why? No confidence in the dross that would apply for such a terrible contract?! Am I correct in understanding the 2nd year also has some restrictions too (I recall its around 70%). If that's as a result of BALPA showing their teeth, they need to go to the dentist.
A probationary year on pay by the hour? Why? No confidence in the dross that would apply for such a terrible contract?! Am I correct in understanding the 2nd year also has some restrictions too (I recall its around 70%). If that's as a result of BALPA showing their teeth, they need to go to the dentist.
Last edited by Calmcavok; 24th Sep 2013 at 04:53.
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Guys: my comments were made in ignorance of the fact they were offered to the experienced guys as well. I thought we were talking about the new licensed 150hr whizz-kids. No offence meant nor intended. If, as you say, BALPA have endorsed this one must ask them of their motivation.
But let's get the thread back on the BRK track.
But let's get the thread back on the BRK track.
Last edited by RAT 5; 24th Sep 2013 at 13:34.
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Well since this is PPRuNe and this is a good rumour I thought I'd share it:
Declan Dooney and the Brookfield lot are working on a new contract and we will all be given the 3 months sign or don't sign deal.
Now that's not new news, I know.
However, it would seem that in this new 'deal' - you would be working FOR Brookfield, rather than a contractor (Although, still not directly for Ryanair)
This would mean there would be an element of salary as well as sector pay - although you still have to sort out your own tax/pensions/everything else.
For those of us on the "old" brookfield contract, this is going to hurt...
Declan Dooney and the Brookfield lot are working on a new contract and we will all be given the 3 months sign or don't sign deal.
Now that's not new news, I know.
However, it would seem that in this new 'deal' - you would be working FOR Brookfield, rather than a contractor (Although, still not directly for Ryanair)
This would mean there would be an element of salary as well as sector pay - although you still have to sort out your own tax/pensions/everything else.
For those of us on the "old" brookfield contract, this is going to hurt...
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you would be working FOR Brookfield, rather than a contractor .........
......although you still have to sort out your own tax/pensions/everything else.
This sounds a smelly as the previous. Perhaps you should wait & see the fine print. How can you be only partially an employee? If an employee then PAYE applies, surely. It does make one wonder what has got the knickers twisted. On here we were told that the newish BRK contract was to comply with EU legislation and it was constructed after much lengthy and expensive consultation with 'experts'. Are BRK now saying that they were not so expert after all? What will happen to those, we were told, who did not sign the previous disputed contract now that it is shown it is perhaps not as kosher as publicised? This looks set to run & run.
......although you still have to sort out your own tax/pensions/everything else.
This sounds a smelly as the previous. Perhaps you should wait & see the fine print. How can you be only partially an employee? If an employee then PAYE applies, surely. It does make one wonder what has got the knickers twisted. On here we were told that the newish BRK contract was to comply with EU legislation and it was constructed after much lengthy and expensive consultation with 'experts'. Are BRK now saying that they were not so expert after all? What will happen to those, we were told, who did not sign the previous disputed contract now that it is shown it is perhaps not as kosher as publicised? This looks set to run & run.
Last edited by RAT 5; 11th Oct 2013 at 20:13.
