Thomas Cook morale.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: South East
As one of those with too much self-interest and no backbone, might I offer a slightly less emotional view: the 62% (I'd call that clear rather than close) were voting for a group-wide restructuring plan that has taken TCX from near bankruptcy to what appears to be recovery. I don't know anyone who actually liked what they were being asked to support, but no one was going to go on strike with the company's future in the balance, were they? Perhaps all those eager young wannabes who've signed huge cheques to get themselves into the right seat of shiny 320 on one-sided contracts might like to reflect that the reason the TCX guys were asked to take the hit was to make themselves competitive with the likes of - you guessed it - easyJet and Ryanair. Welcome to your future.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: The IMF.
DeepKnight
Perhaps the truth lies closer to the fact that rather than blaming Lemming like cadets, the Thomas Cook group (and the airline) has been a turgid, stodgy mess for a good decade or so.
After 9/11 the rot set in. The pilots accepted a good shafting then and indeed new Captain contracts were forced through allowing for demotion - unlike anyone promoted prior to 9/11.
That charmer, El Borai, neatly drove a wedge between pilot groups there and then.
That was the moment things started changing in the airline.
Pathetic seat only attempts to "compete" with easy or Ryan followed, despite the fact that the seats were wildly expensive. And hence of no significance in sale volumes.
On the tour Ops front, the most unfriendly website experience of all time - which actually sold more competitor products than TCG products......
A merger with the remains of the Airtours/MyTravel combined neatly with an expansion into high street shops.....just as the recession took hold and high streets died nationwide.
Need I say more?
But, to add to this, long haul "scheduled" services to compete with BA,AA,VIRGIN etc are to commence to margin sensitive destinations such as MCO.
The cadets had absolutely nothing to do with your lamentable situation. Face it, the group was a disaster until Harriet Green arrived. Hopefully she will rebuild it.
I left TCX in 2006, as I couldn't see a future there. That was in 2006.
Is the future brighter today?
After 9/11 the rot set in. The pilots accepted a good shafting then and indeed new Captain contracts were forced through allowing for demotion - unlike anyone promoted prior to 9/11.
That charmer, El Borai, neatly drove a wedge between pilot groups there and then.
That was the moment things started changing in the airline.
Pathetic seat only attempts to "compete" with easy or Ryan followed, despite the fact that the seats were wildly expensive. And hence of no significance in sale volumes.
On the tour Ops front, the most unfriendly website experience of all time - which actually sold more competitor products than TCG products......
A merger with the remains of the Airtours/MyTravel combined neatly with an expansion into high street shops.....just as the recession took hold and high streets died nationwide.
Need I say more?
But, to add to this, long haul "scheduled" services to compete with BA,AA,VIRGIN etc are to commence to margin sensitive destinations such as MCO.
The cadets had absolutely nothing to do with your lamentable situation. Face it, the group was a disaster until Harriet Green arrived. Hopefully she will rebuild it.
I left TCX in 2006, as I couldn't see a future there. That was in 2006.
Is the future brighter today?
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 615
Likes: 8
From: Middle England
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: The IMF.
763 Jock
Yes indeed, let us hope so.
The mistakes of the past led to this fundraising and this fundraising itself is the very essence of survival, or not as a business and public company.
Hopefully you will move forward in good health.
The mistakes of the past led to this fundraising and this fundraising itself is the very essence of survival, or not as a business and public company.
Hopefully you will move forward in good health.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: South East
And she's entitled. Who else in the travel industry could have turned such a basket case back into a fighting entity? Two hundred mil market cap back into well over a billion? Anyone else here like to step up for that?
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: uk
Deepknight, a lot of what you say is also true, just the other side of the argument for promoting self preservation. I could have said the same myself, but feel we could have fought a bit harder.
A lot of what is said about TC and TCX confuses the problems of the airline with the much bigger problems of the group. Post merger with MYT, TC had a 100million in the bank and M F_N pi##ed it up against a wall. Bad group management caused the downfall of TC.
Now, (hopefully) good group management is picking up the pieces and everyone is expected to suffer a little/lot to make HG dream come true. The TC shareprice seems to operate in line with the 'bootstrap' system in that it has nothing other than itself lifting it higher. Let us hope the bootstraps don't snap.
You can argue til the cows come home whether the few million saved by cutting pilot T&Cs really saved the airline, we will never know as the vote (62% 48% is no way a clear cut majority with the number of voters involved) went for the safe option. We still need to grow some backbone as there is a fair chance that having faced us down once, they will be back for more at some time in the future. Maybe they tried already with a almost un-noticed change to redundancy policy or maybe that just an administrative oversight?
We are where we are, and we are a site better off than many, but to stay that way we have to be prepared to support our (not always perfect, but a hell of lot better than nothing) CC.
A lot of what is said about TC and TCX confuses the problems of the airline with the much bigger problems of the group. Post merger with MYT, TC had a 100million in the bank and M F_N pi##ed it up against a wall. Bad group management caused the downfall of TC.
Now, (hopefully) good group management is picking up the pieces and everyone is expected to suffer a little/lot to make HG dream come true. The TC shareprice seems to operate in line with the 'bootstrap' system in that it has nothing other than itself lifting it higher. Let us hope the bootstraps don't snap.
You can argue til the cows come home whether the few million saved by cutting pilot T&Cs really saved the airline, we will never know as the vote (62% 48% is no way a clear cut majority with the number of voters involved) went for the safe option. We still need to grow some backbone as there is a fair chance that having faced us down once, they will be back for more at some time in the future. Maybe they tried already with a almost un-noticed change to redundancy policy or maybe that just an administrative oversight?
We are where we are, and we are a site better off than many, but to stay that way we have to be prepared to support our (not always perfect, but a hell of lot better than nothing) CC.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Behind you all the way!
A mate of mine was at TCX. He wasn't a Lemming or one of those 200-hr Cadets on self-induced crappy T&C's CONtracts. He was a very experienced SFO with around 7,500 hours, 5,000+ on B757/767's operated all over the world, literally, 20 years service to give to an employer & a young family to feed.
He told me of his dismay when on a long night duty down to the Eastern Med' & back, he was flying with a Captain who was retiring from TCX before this current Summer season (2013) ends, but had taken one of the limited number of A320 Type Ratings on offer IN STRICT SENIORITY ORDER to the upper echelon of the TCX Pilots.
If that pilot reads this and it strikes a chord that you may be the person my friend flew with, I'd just like to ask how you can sleep at night? You have probably had a career with TCX going back almost 30 years to Airtours or Flying Colours, probably on top of an Armed Forces pension, which begs the question, don't you have enough money already? Isn't your pension's coffers swollen & pot overflowing already without having to grab a gift of a provision that would serve someone better who is still paying off huge training debts or building themselves a career & financial future for his or her family? If this 'Divine Right' to a career enhancing redundancy provision is limited to those who have amassed their fortunes & are in the twilight of heir careers, then who in God's name brokered THAT deal?
Your greed & "I'm alright, Jack!" attitude is odious. Probably as odious as the air in your flight deck. I hope you enjoy your retirement, happy in the knowledge that you & your kind & your common greed has
everything up for the rest of us.
Now up your ladder you go. Just don't forget to pull it up after you.
He told me of his dismay when on a long night duty down to the Eastern Med' & back, he was flying with a Captain who was retiring from TCX before this current Summer season (2013) ends, but had taken one of the limited number of A320 Type Ratings on offer IN STRICT SENIORITY ORDER to the upper echelon of the TCX Pilots.
If that pilot reads this and it strikes a chord that you may be the person my friend flew with, I'd just like to ask how you can sleep at night? You have probably had a career with TCX going back almost 30 years to Airtours or Flying Colours, probably on top of an Armed Forces pension, which begs the question, don't you have enough money already? Isn't your pension's coffers swollen & pot overflowing already without having to grab a gift of a provision that would serve someone better who is still paying off huge training debts or building themselves a career & financial future for his or her family? If this 'Divine Right' to a career enhancing redundancy provision is limited to those who have amassed their fortunes & are in the twilight of heir careers, then who in God's name brokered THAT deal?
Your greed & "I'm alright, Jack!" attitude is odious. Probably as odious as the air in your flight deck. I hope you enjoy your retirement, happy in the knowledge that you & your kind & your common greed has
everything up for the rest of us.Now up your ladder you go. Just don't forget to pull it up after you.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: south england
I believe this is a short term problem due to training issues after the reshuffle, but then again, last year we were sold a crock of ***** with regards numbers and so called pinch points during the Summer.
There is no doubt you can make a few bob on the bus if you were so inclined.
There is no doubt you can make a few bob on the bus if you were so inclined.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: South East
Can we rein in the hysteria a little, guys? The picture of rampant, rabid back-stabbing is not one I recognise in the slightest.
1) There was no offer of Airbus ratings to the "top echelon" of senior pilots. There was a bidding system for base, type and rank that was done in order of seniority. Yes, the process was very badly handled by management, but every one who placed a bid did so for their own ends, that's what bids are for. I know of at least one pilot who can count his seniority in two digits who didn't get his first bid.
2) The idea that all TCX pilots can make huge sums in overtime on the backs of their colleagues is nonsense. There are some instances when training/extra work etc causes peaks in overtime available. Some people will take it because they're greedy, some because they need the money, and some won't take it at all either because of ethics or they prefer the time off. There are a few guys who'll grab what they can and to hell with everyone else, but that's not confined to TCX, is it?
3)The overtime scheme is part of the pilots' agreement with management. For the BALPA CC to even open a discussion on it can leave them open to an attack from the company for inciting industrial action without holding a ballot.
Finally, AmericaFyeah, I'm guessing from your username that your're from across the pond where, as I understand it, the concept of democracy is right up there with God and apple pie. 62% in any ballot is a CLEAR majority. You can argue all you like about the size of the ballot, but if members of the workforce choose not to sign up to the negotiating body, you can't blame those who did if you don't like the result.
1) There was no offer of Airbus ratings to the "top echelon" of senior pilots. There was a bidding system for base, type and rank that was done in order of seniority. Yes, the process was very badly handled by management, but every one who placed a bid did so for their own ends, that's what bids are for. I know of at least one pilot who can count his seniority in two digits who didn't get his first bid.
2) The idea that all TCX pilots can make huge sums in overtime on the backs of their colleagues is nonsense. There are some instances when training/extra work etc causes peaks in overtime available. Some people will take it because they're greedy, some because they need the money, and some won't take it at all either because of ethics or they prefer the time off. There are a few guys who'll grab what they can and to hell with everyone else, but that's not confined to TCX, is it?
3)The overtime scheme is part of the pilots' agreement with management. For the BALPA CC to even open a discussion on it can leave them open to an attack from the company for inciting industrial action without holding a ballot.
Finally, AmericaFyeah, I'm guessing from your username that your're from across the pond where, as I understand it, the concept of democracy is right up there with God and apple pie. 62% in any ballot is a CLEAR majority. You can argue all you like about the size of the ballot, but if members of the workforce choose not to sign up to the negotiating body, you can't blame those who did if you don't like the result.