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Flexicrew details?

Old 22nd Feb 2013, 22:20
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Flexicrew details?

Hello

I'm looking into doing an Integrated course at CTC, hopefully next year once I leave college. I understand that the vast majority of their graduates move into their holding pool system, where they can (possibly) be transferred to Flexicrew.

I know that Flexicrew gives an 'allowance' of 1000-1200 a month (allowance as in pocket money?), which is deplorable, and that they normally have T's & C's to match.

What I don't understand is the 'ownership' of this Flexicrew system - in an email from CTC they say the following "You generally receive an allowance during your 6-8 months line training of 1000 - 1200 per month and are employed by ARL once you go on to a permanent FlexiCrew Contract." I've also seen on some other parts of this forum that you can be on a Flexicrew contract and still be employed by CTC or Parc or whoever.

I was previously under the impression that Flexicrew was something that EasyJet owned, but apparently not, so would someone be able to clarify this please?

Thanks

Last edited by Buggington; 22nd Feb 2013 at 22:22.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 07:49
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Tell me where does a student get 100k plus these days?.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 08:49
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All flexi crew are either self employed or employed by ARL (Airline Recruitment Limited).
The self employed guys contract to easyJet via Parc.
As for ARL and CTC people generally don't distinguish between the two but any reference to CTC flexi crew or the like is referring to those employed by ARL.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 10:01
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So you know that after you finish you will probably end up as a casual worker earning barely pocket money. Presumably you also know how much this course costs for the possibility of being a casual worker. Yet you still want to pursue this?

I realise I haven't answered your question, but I am curious as to why people are still signing up for such a bad deal when all the facts are there on these forums, and now on the BALPA website as well.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 10:20
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VRB: I can understand your confusion, and I want to be a pilot. That's the only reason I would take on a stupid amount of debt.

Fingers crossed, after a couple of years building hours at Easy or similar, I can get a job somewhere else and start earning some (real) money. That's the plan. Let's face it, this is probably the best time for me to do this, while I don't have a house, family and other financial pressures to worry about.

Greywind: Excellent, that answers the question. Thanks

ROSCO: Loan from the BBVA, assuming that wasn't a sarcastic/rhetorical question.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 11:54
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Whilst the uniform might look good in the supermarket, if you fail to make a BBVA payment, your parents WILL loose their home!

Think on.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 11:58
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The latest permanent contracts that Ezy are handing out equate roughly to a 10,000 paycut. That's including pension and any extras.

Of course it won't get any worse than this...
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 12:03
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and the cancer continues
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 12:13
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Also remember to take any figure you think you may earn on Flexicrew and multiply by 0.75 should Ezy send you home for 3 months during the winter.

How are you going to pay back the loan that's secured on your parents house with no income for a quarter of the year?!
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 12:26
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Pensions will not exist by 2050, expert warns - Telegraph

And it's because of contracts like this.

Grow a brain and don't sign up for this. Go to Singapore, China, Middle East or whatever. Europe is a disgusting cesspit full of hypocritical people that think its alright if they're alright and then with the next breath have their hands out.

Audrey Hepburn said we have two hands - one to help ourselves and one to help others. Well, Whybyflier says Europeans have two hands - one to help themselves and one to take from others.

Get a grip people and start taking responsibilty for your actions.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 13:15
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Buggington,

Why, on earth, do you want to be a pilot?

I can understand why someone wants to go flying, but in the current collapse with no way out, why would you sign up to this nightmare?
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 13:27
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I was lucky and tagged by an airline during training. I graduated and, again, was very lucky and went straight in to a full-time, permanent job as an FO earning slightly above industry-standard (early 2008) money. I had to take on a loan of around 60k to finance the course - it is manageable but, after 5 years of repayment, I still have (unless I overpay) 6 YEARS left of repayment.

I have been lucky and everything worked out as planned HOWEVER I didn't, back during training, fully appreciate the size of this loan commitment with the benefit of hindsight. I'm now engaged and looking to buy a famly home - this loan commitment is having a HUGE bearing on my ability to get a mortgage in the SE of the UK in a decent area.

I knew what I was signing up for, everything went to plan and I am well paid. I am not, by any stretch, a low earner BUT I still have to compromise on lifestyle as a result of the loan.

My point is that loans of this magnitude WILL have a huge impact on your life for years. Just some candid, hopefully useful, feedback from someone who knows. Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying don't do it, I'm not saying I necessarily regret it, I'm just saying that even with my eyes wide open beforehand I am still sometimes frustrated by it's shadow over my life - things will just take that bit longer.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 14:29
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If I had any tears left I'd cry

I am utterly incredulous any intelligent, confident, self respecting child would think of signing up for such a proposition.

For gads sake, invest your energy and money in a profitable endeavor- you are staring at a possible financial abyss that threatens to blight your life and anyone connected with it.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 15:13
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It's flexiScrew.

The latest trend I hear is quite a few ex CTC just swapping for a clean sheet by declaring bankruptcy? Anyone know people personally? If so, great, tax payers picking up the bill. It's a disgrace.

My dear Buggington:

You shall be forgiven your sin, for it's the sin of youth.

So you want to "build time" on a jet? It was once upon a time that flying a jet, in many, if not most, parts of the world, came after years of working the GA. Hell, some guys took most of their entire careers before finally entering that stage.

In the Monarch threat, people report of candidates in the latest interview round being in their 40s and 50s.

There is clearly no rush.

EZY and RYR stopped expansion. There just isn't many opportunities. As proof, just monitor OAA's employment stats for this year.

Word is EK hold 2,000 CVs on file from people with tons of hours from all over the world. Over the past years, fast track progression may have been possible for a few ex RYR and EZY, but it will only get harder.

One guy in another thread was saying that CTC had started to inform people swimming in their ATP pool that there is no jobs for them in 2013. Their main cadets are looking at a wait until summer. At least. They may then get picked up. Again, that is they may.

While indeed it seems CTC have had a 100 percent placement record, who guarantees you that it will be like that forever? I certainly would not put my parents' house on it.

All it takes is very little disruption and boom, the industry is on its knees.

If someone wants to enter this profession, please, do so. Because only if you truly love what you do, you can develop that ultimate passion to succeed and put up with a ton of BS.

But when you decide to go for it, do it wisely.

Do something else first. Go get a degree. Learn a trade. Get just a plain, simple job. Learn appreciate the value of money first. While still living at home with no bills to pay, save enough money to cover your PPL. Then go from there. Try to get into one of those tagged programs. If you fail in doing that save some more and do your hour building, then your ATPLs.

It may take you all your 20s to complete these first three steps, and boy it is so not glamorous and requires so much commitment and self-discipline, but trust me on that one, it'll put you in a way much better spot.

In my book, a successful career already starts way before receiving your very first hour of flight training.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 19:21
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I've got to say, I'm overwhelmed with the negative response to this. I realised that things were far from perfect, but the deluge of negativity (realism?) has definitely made me stop in my tracks.

First of all, I'd like to point out that I am aware of the level of debt that this could get me into. I understand that it will make life hard for the first couple of years, but the plan was to live at home and over pay until it was done. Hopefully by then my salary would have risen, and I could get a life.

Since the beginning of that plan, I've looked into the Flexicrew salaries, and seen how they are. That's put a spanner in the works, to say the least.

In response to Piloto's comment about the jets - I don't necessarily plan to go straight into jets. I think I just assumed that I would go straight into the likes of EasyJet, but I wouldn't mind flying freight or props.

It's safe to say that flying as originally planned won't work. Does anyone know what the situation is like in the regional airlines (i.e. props) or freight? Given that it's a bit different to what everyone thinks of when they talk about being a pilot, maybe there's less competition?

Last edited by Buggington; 23rd Feb 2013 at 19:30.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 19:42
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Buggington said :
but I wouldn't mind flying freight or props.

He also said :
Does anyone know what the situation is like in the regional airlines (i.e. props) or freight? Given that it's a bit different to what everyone thinks of when they talk about being a pilot, maybe there's less competition?

Buggington, you are so funny, I'm splitting my sides here !!! Try telling the guys who fly Q400's, SAAB 340's or ATR's how easy it must be getting those jobs whilst there is a little less competition !! What is your scheduled finnish date ? Drop me a line when your done and I'll put a good word in to my fleet manager and with a nod and a wink you can come and join me flying the A330 !! Easy peesy !!
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 19:43
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Buggington

I notice you are only 17 and that is excuse enough for the extreme naivity you display.

The airline industry, in Europe, is in a dire position. It is impossible for anyone, and that means you, as well, to 'plan' a career because the well-worn system of entering airlines has been destroyed in the past 10years by the likes of the very system you espoused, in your initial post, to join.

Even the traditional route into the turbo prop operations are severely restricted and where are thes airlines? The UK has a monopoly turbo airline; that is financial dificulty and is making crew redundant.

Please read the thousands of wise words written in these fora by people who have been there, done it or tried to do it, and still have the blood on their tee-shirts.

This is not the right time to embark on a career as an airline pilot. Until such time as the mythical 'pilot shortage' occurs, stay put in any career that will not put an immeasurably heavy albatross around your neck.

Last edited by MaxReheat; 23rd Feb 2013 at 19:44.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 20:05
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Seamaster: My sarcasm senses are twitching. I'm glad I amuse though, assuming that wasn't also sarcasm.

I apologise if I'm being rude and annoying people with my naivety. Sadly, it's only from the advice of you guys that I can learn what it's really like out there. Up until maybe about a week ago I thought the worst I could face when I left the likes of CTC was a six - nine month wait in their hold pool.

Max: I'm really not sure what to say. Flying is all I've wanted to do, and
so thinking up an alternative is pretty hard to do.

A lot of people on here are suggesting that I go to university and think about my options. The trouble is that as it is I'm not enjoying college. I doubt I'm going to like university much more, especially when I have to spend 60k on it. I've been to the open days at a few different universities, looking at their Aerospace Engineering courses, but there just wasn't anything there that made me want to go.

I realise that there's cruel irony in what I just said about paying for university, considering I was thinking of spending 100k on training, but at least (previously, or the way that CTC/OAA are selling it) there was a job at the end of it.

Also, Max, if you think I'm naive, try going to the CTC and OAA open days. The naivety of the current cadets there is quite amazing - one of the guys I spoke to couldn't even give me a typical starting salary, and didn't know anything about the holding pool situation. I suspect that these are probably the types of people that most of the experienced pilots in the industry are basing the CTC graduates on.

Anyway, the main point of this post was that I don't know quite what to do if not flying.

Last edited by Buggington; 23rd Feb 2013 at 20:10.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 20:12
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Do a maths degree, work hard, don't get distracted - go work for a bank - they're immortal. If they run out of more then they print more. Job done.
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Old 23rd Feb 2013, 20:21
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I'm not sure Buggington, at 17, needs to be informed about things in quite the, erm, 'impassioned' way in which some are replying. There are a lot of home truths in replies on this thread, mine included, but steady on guys! Most of the pro pilots on this thread will have had dreams and plans just like Buggington's, minus the insider knowledge...again, just like Buggington.

It is a very tough climate at the minute, I joined the industry just before the economic meltdown in 2008 and when I started flying training the landscape was VERY different.

Ultimately everyone has to make their own decision after proper research, risk assessment and a healthy dose of soul-searching!

My advice would, humbly, be - if you haven't already, get some flying experience. I had a PPL before being fortunate enough to get on a tagged scheme. I also had a uni degree (like many in the general work force now) which is useful as a backup and puts your CV slightly higher up the pile.

I'm not sure what the status of the BA FPP scheme is at the minute but it seems to be the way that BA want to recruit their low-hour pilots at the moment. If you can get some kind of intent from an employer before you train (if that's what you do) then I think that's the ideal situation.

As frustrating as it is to delay what you want to do (fly!) most of the successful applicants on my course (not BA) and, I suspect, most of those successful in getting a spot on the BA FPP programme/other tagged schemes will be similar, were in their 20s, had a few years of work experience, had been to university and had flying experience of some sort.

All these things round you as a person/potential employee, give you more options in case your ambitions change (or the world goes against you) and make you much more competitive if you do aim for 'sponsored' schemes in the future. Subjectively, it SEEMED that those who trained where I did and had come straight from school to training were those least likely to go straight in to flying jobs (even when flying jobs were more plentiful) upon graduation.

I know uni funding has changed recently but I think there is a bit of misunderstanding among some - as I understand it, it can still be financed by an income-contingent loan i.e. you only pay back when you earn enough to pay back?

Lastly - a few of my friends who started airline flying at a similar time to myself are pondering or actively researching a change of career. Various reasons - mostly revolving around the job not being what they expected or the (often) lack of stability, clear career progression, etc. Not the majority by any stretch but a decent handful. The positives still far outweigh the negatives for me at the minute but I do ponder the future and what the job will be in years to come...

I think it's very much about contingency planning and having backup/escape plans...a bit like flying!

Anyway, good luck with your musings

Last edited by bucket_and_spade; 23rd Feb 2013 at 20:44.
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