are 3000 jet hours not enough for interview?

[mrx111]

I'm right now surprised, what airlines wants today. After 6 years of experience, flying B737NG and CL and having 3000hours on type, JAA ATPL, I can't find any way how to get invited to any interview. I applied to every reasonable offer, but usually no response or a general email stating they had enough candidates and I didn't fit to their requirements. My last airline didn't extend my contract, because at the moment they don't need experienced pilots and want only pilots with zero experience for P2F. I never did P2F and right now it seems I'm a victim of this program, where airlines are giving preference to pilots with zero experience and only wants to get a money from them.

[AvroRider]

because at the moment they don't need experienced pilots and want only pilots with zero experience for P2F.

I'm a victim of this program

preference to pilots with zero experience and only wants to get a money from them.

You just answered to your question my friend...And I know it's a shame and will hardly end...

[captjns]

It's a shame that there are so many children who have parents that are willing to buy int such schemes.

The worst part is that there are so called responsible adults willing to take a job with Ethiopian and fly revenue flights on $60 USD per day

[AvroRider]

Look what I found a few days ago :

Job Description
Cockpit Connect is an Airline crew leasing company based in Jakarta/Bali, Indonesia. On behalf of Citilink we are seeking Captains and First Officers to fly Airbus A320 aircraft for IMMEDIATE screening starting on 27th February 2013 in Amsterdam.

NOTE: We DO NOT charge any expense for this opportunity and we will NOT accept pilots who request to pay to fly.

And surprise, surprise from an other agency :

Job Description
Citilink the low cost carrier and daughter of Garuda Indonesia would like to invite A320 rated pilots with 250 - 499 hours on type.

Program:
This is a self financed program and will cost 25.000 USD
For this investment you will receive line training + 2 year contract.

Where is the error ?

[carlrsymington]

Supply and Demand

I am not a fan of big business but what you are experiencing is exactly this.

You want a high status job you love doing for big money, to see the world, maybe meet a few beautiful women, men (your choice). Who wouldn't.
Number of jobs < number of suckers willing to P2F
MOL and and a lot of airline MD's have realised this and will suck you dry.
I'd love to be a pilot but lack of skill, too much competition and an economic appraisal told me to go for an IT career.
I get\ got to see the world, USA 20 times on business plus a few others.
Training paid for by a state education and my employers. Not enough beautiful women at first but this is changing.
I get to sleep in my own bed and don't get jet lag unless I've come back from long haul holiday or work.
Fight the changes as hard and as long as you can. Use the whatever tactics are legal & ethical to maintain the staus quo or minimise degradation but the headwinds are against you (I don't know the METAR numbers).
Nice work from Balpa with a facebook page.. sarcasm mode = OFF
Law & IT seem to be flavour of the decade but I am sure there are others.
Finally, I do NOT wish for pilots or cabin crew to undergo any detrimental changes to T&C's but as always things are changing. I don't have solutions but you have my sympathy & support.

[el caballero rojo]

I don't want to disappoint you but with even 10000 hours and 6500 Jet hours, I did not get an invitation. I have been applying at a large cargo airline since 2003 with no joy. And when you apply at a LoCo who alledgely wants to hire experienced FO's, you don't even get an invitation.

[dondino]

Just to be sure....why dont you share your experience on the interview section....giving the idea to anyone is considering to go for those programs....everyone think that with 700 TT and 500 on type they are ESSENTIAL to the market....but reality comes to the truth and then you realize that even with such experience there are no or little jobs opportunities....
Hope this thing might go to an end...aviation seems to be a posh hobby!

[No RYR for me]

I never did P2F and right now it seems I'm a victim of this program, where airlines are giving preference to pilots with zero experience and only wants to get a money from them.

That is interesting... specially when reading what you wrote on the 26th of April 2009:

Is any chance to get a job on B737 with almost 500hrs on type? I've flown classic and NG together, but right now I'm considering to go to Eagle jet and buy some hours,

So let's get this straight... You bought a TR without a job, was willing to spend even more on a second TR and now you are ranting against P2F...

You made my day!

[What Now]

You are experiencing similar problems to those on the Military Experience Worthless thread.

[rightbank]

I was recently asked a question about how much the P2F schemes cost. As my company doesn't operate such a scheme I had to admit I didn't know. Can anyone give me details about how much those companies that do charge for the 'privilege' of being shafted while sitting in the rh seat.

I tried a quick look at the search facility and while there are many mentions of p2f, I couldn't find any mention of costs.

[mrx111]

I never did P2F, I've flown for a few airlines, always for a regular F/O salary. Nothing like today, P2F or if you're lucky you are employed and the salary is 4-5 times less then any regular F/O salary. All what I did is I paid my first and the only one type rating, that's all.

[RAT 5]

I would like to see a Jeremy Paxman type interview, perhaps Hard-Talk, confront a couple of guilty airline CEO's and a couple of CAA chiefs on this issue. Real dig deep into the phsycie of what's gong on. Get a few of the interviewees squirming. Let the pax know what's going on. Make a comparison to the health or dentist industry and as patients if they'd like this 'pay for a job' system there. I would have thought this was a classic scenario for the unions to get active on. A national union should be just that; caring for the whole industry, not just narrow minded on one or two companies and their local issues. The technical committees claim to look after all those aspects of the industry, as do the flight safety committees; why not then the T's & C's committees. Yet on this issue they have been conspicuous by their silence. They take their money by purporting to protect those who are already members. This is too narrow minded. I'm amazed the investigative media haven't latched onto what would be an interesting dig.

[uchy]

Sadly in the same your situation : 3500 jet hrs,I have applied almost everywhere and 0 invitation!!!

[captjns]

I would like to see a Jeremy Paxman type interview, perhaps Hard-Talk, confront a couple of guilty airline CEO's and a couple of CAA chiefs on this issue.

You need to include the miscreants who are eager to spend their parent's money, climb over the backs of the qualified pilots who have not conscience about short cutting the system.

[cldrvr]

Sadly in the same your situation : 3500 jet hrs,I have applied almost
everywhere and 0 invitation!!!

You are not going to get one as long as there are kids willing to pay for their own training and accepting sub standard conditions.

That is not going to change unless either the airlines change their policy, and that is not going to happen as long as the beancounters are in charge, or you need the existing crews putting a stop to it, and that is not going to happen either, too many of them are complicit in this practise.

You just wait till this current batch migrates to the LHS and accepts huge paycuts to do so, that will only accelerate the downward spiral. By the time that happens it will be too late for the exisiting senior crew to do anything about it, and all of them will come in here complaining how crap the industry has become.

[cldrvr]

All what I did is I paid my first and the only one type rating, that's
all.

By doing so you gave up the right to complain. I am glad you are not finding a job, lets hope there are hundreds more like you and that may just tip the balance and scare a few more in going down the same road you are now finding yourself on.

One can hope......Nah, not going to happen, plenty more muppets with more money than sense.

[Doodlebug]

Mr Rat your approach: ''Let the pax know what's going on. Make a comparison to the health or dentist industry and as patients if they'd like this 'pay for a job' system there'' seems to make a great deal of sense at first glance, however I feel that the pax couldn't care less, in fact I believe that these days your average man-in-the-street would be delighted to hear the sad facts. This is because of the pervasive envy apparent at all levels of society (oops, sorry, there are no levels in society) today. Witness the undisguised hatred vented at aircrew by the simians running the 'security'-charade at airports today as just one example. Also, your average Joe firmly believes that modern aircraft fly themselves, innit? So why should pilots warrant above-average terms and conditions, the 'logic' goes. Of course pilots as a group generally accelerate this trend by continuously down-playing the challenges of what we do - sadly usually an ugly manifestation of false modesty.

[Iver]

You are lucky you still have a job in Europe - stay positive! 3,000 hours and a type rating does not make you stand out from the crowd. There are plenty of people from distressed/no-growth airlines looking for jobs elsewhere. My advice: keep adding 737NG hours and get your command and valuable command time when possible.

If you were to have closer to 10,000 737NG hours plus command time with no incidents one would think you would be marketable elsewhere - especially in the Middle East where the growth continues unabated... Just read FlyDubai is expected to order 50-100 more aircraft (although some may replace existing 737NGs). Both Emirates and the other large UAE major are expanding big time. I would also keep applications current with both BA and VS just in case hiring opens up at some point.

Good luck!

[fade to grey]

Spot on , Doodlebug, spot on !
Sadly experience is actually seen as a negative by P2F companies.

Don't think command hours will get you out of the merde either. I thought that and it used to be 500 hrs P1 will get you a DEC.
but, oh no, goalposts move fluidly - 2000 P1 , 3000 P1. Widebody ? over ( insert random aircraft weight limit ).
Not so simple, and even if you are to go DEC, you are mainly looking at the dregs that advertise a lot like Ethiopian and Korean...

Good luck !

[Stick35]

This really surprises me. That amount of experience on a popular aircraft and still not finding anything. I thought that market nowadays was only for boeing and airbus rated people. And even then people are still doing P2F. The market is really sick. Mrx111, did you try flydubai and oman air? They are looking for guys of your size i thought.