EasyJet to create 330 pilot jobs
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As despicable as this offer is with regard to the zero hours aspect of this contract . I have some sympathy with ManUTD1999's view. After all I have a mortgage. My debts are my problem and should not be considered when it comes to pay negotiation.
If these people took out debt to train that's the risk they took. Cut your cloth fellows. Save up for the lean winter months.
The thing I want to see is easyjet pilots in easyjet planes.
If these people took out debt to train that's the risk they took. Cut your cloth fellows. Save up for the lean winter months.
The thing I want to see is easyjet pilots in easyjet planes.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 8
From: Put out to graze
They have to spend AT LEAST 24 months on a zero hours contract first. No fly-no money.
Age 22 and earning 35K aint bad. The reality is 35K, not a 'zero hours contract'.
If people are better at budgeting and save some summer pay for the lean winter months all would be well.
Before I am shot down, I DO NOT AGREE with the way easy are doing this, but I am putting some much needed perspective on it.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
There are indeed a significant number of our FOs driving cars that I could never dream of. I suspect that is a combination of rich parents, living at home and a willingness to take on debt that I would never countenance. At the end of the day, disposable income has to be just that and what people do with their money is their own problem. Also, the level of indebtedness they were willing to undertake to become a pilot is also their own personal problem. No one with a brain in their head could have gone into this without an idea of the massive risks involved financially. Also, no one is on a zero hours contract, however bad the situation is. Nonetheless, it is a B Scale and that must be fought or there will be a C and D scale to follow.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Manchester
This can all be resolved by incorporating the same 1500 hr minimum for airline pilots that the US are about to take on. No more CTC etc, airlines recruiting the DE and ex mil pilots out of work due to "trapped by loan" cadets willing to work for brass buttons, T&Cs improved as airlines now fight for the best of those few with enough hours and, type ratings provided by the operator.
No more buying your way into the flight deck, getting there purely through hard work and gaining the airmanship required along the way.
I was always taught that learning from your mistakes is good but learning from someone else's is better. Come on CAA sort this s**t out!
No more buying your way into the flight deck, getting there purely through hard work and gaining the airmanship required along the way.
I was always taught that learning from your mistakes is good but learning from someone else's is better. Come on CAA sort this s**t out!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: UK
Guys and gals
people is missing one massive point. Not all of the flexicrews are 22 years old cadets!!
There are guys circa 30-40 y/o, and as much as 7000-8000 TT. Just imagine how they (we) feel having our face slapped by this "offer".
Disgusting. Just disgusting
people is missing one massive point. Not all of the flexicrews are 22 years old cadets!!
There are guys circa 30-40 y/o, and as much as 7000-8000 TT. Just imagine how they (we) feel having our face slapped by this "offer".
Disgusting. Just disgusting
Joined: Nov 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 702
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From: CarrotLand
Nonetheless, it is a B Scale and that must be fought or there will be a C and D scale to follow.
We have already seen how things have gone that direction with the LIS contract... yes, it is "acceptable" to be on lower wages at the beginning of your career and that is now "not hurting you", well estabilished Captain in your own base, but no-one knows what can be the next offer, or to whom it will be directed.
First they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Pastor Martin Neimoller
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Pastor Martin Neimoller
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 3
From: United Kingdom
In that respect the loco's are very clever, they keep their captains well paid and in return very little trouble is caused as they destroy new FO T &Cs. No matter how many times you say it, you won't stop cadets risking their own and their parents money in pursuit of 'the dream'. If captains had taken a stand a few years back and refused to fly with any flexicrew pilot, we might not be in this situation now.
That said, I don't know much about the situation at Easyjet and it may be that people higher up the food-chain are indeed doing more than it seems from the outside.
That said, I don't know much about the situation at Easyjet and it may be that people higher up the food-chain are indeed doing more than it seems from the outside.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
If captains had taken a stand a few years back and refused to fly with any flexicrew pilot, we might not be in this situation now.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 693
From: UK
Originally Posted by ManUtd1999
If captains had taken a stand a few years back and refused to fly with any flexicrew pilot...
You don't really get this, do you?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: MAN
...then they would have been instantly dismissed.
You don't really get
this, do you?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 693
From: UK
cldrvr
Blame, blame, blame.
If you are a LTC/TRE and suddenly you mostly fail people where previously you mostly passed people, then you will either be dismissed for IA, or disciplined/demoted for failing to be a trainer who can train.
Remember that lots of our flexicrew have may thousands of hours on type, and are not 200 hour wonderboys. One chap I regularly fly with has 9500 Airbus hours.
The significant change is that now all of our 450 flexicrew are seriously pissed off ("disappointed") and are looking to get out. In the mean time, from 1st April, existing employees and new flexicrew converts will have the legal opportunity for the first time to take industrial action.
Blame, blame, blame.
If you are a LTC/TRE and suddenly you mostly fail people where previously you mostly passed people, then you will either be dismissed for IA, or disciplined/demoted for failing to be a trainer who can train.
Remember that lots of our flexicrew have may thousands of hours on type, and are not 200 hour wonderboys. One chap I regularly fly with has 9500 Airbus hours.
The significant change is that now all of our 450 flexicrew are seriously pissed off ("disappointed") and are looking to get out. In the mean time, from 1st April, existing employees and new flexicrew converts will have the legal opportunity for the first time to take industrial action.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: MAN
Blame, blame, blame.
10-15 years ago you guys were earning more than we did, that has now been reversed not only by yours going down, but ours are steadily improving.
Our longhaul drivers are now on contracts that even BA in its heyday could not reach. Long may it continue.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: MAN
Companies like eJ and FR will only pay what they have to and as long as there are guys either willing to pay for their own training/uniforms/base checks and guys like your 9500 hour driver accepting crap terms and as long as there are LHS drivers willing to fly with them and trainers willing to train them, this is only going to get worse, not better.
Our part time FA's are on better money than your RHS drivers are, what does this say about your part of the industry.
You guys are in a race to the bottom, you haven't reached it yet.
Our part time FA's are on better money than your RHS drivers are, what does this say about your part of the industry.
You guys are in a race to the bottom, you haven't reached it yet.
Last edited by cldrvr; 5th February 2013 at 07:59.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 928
Likes: 0
From: ex-DXB
Just stick on another 500kg's for flexi-crew per flight.
It worked when Andy threatened to take away the free tea and coffee a few years ago.
(good to see a few more ex-Easy captains propping up the EK seniority list these days)
It worked when Andy threatened to take away the free tea and coffee a few years ago.
(good to see a few more ex-Easy captains propping up the EK seniority list these days)
Last edited by Craggenmore; 5th February 2013 at 11:04.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
From: UK
Frankly they could pay FO's nothing for the first 2 years. Do you think they would struggle to find people? No. You've got £100,000 worth of debt and in 2 years you'll be on "better money". You just need to "suck it up" for the first little while.
The only way to improve things is to stop people taking on the debt in the first place by really educating people, particularly younger people, about what they're getting involved in. Once you've spent the money you're trapped and its game set and match to the airline!
The only way to improve things is to stop people taking on the debt in the first place by really educating people, particularly younger people, about what they're getting involved in. Once you've spent the money you're trapped and its game set and match to the airline!
Last edited by veetwo; 5th February 2013 at 17:22.