BA Recruitment

[overstress]

At least 12.

[Callsign Kilo]

I hope and pray that the recruitment chaps at "The Rivers," the guys that actually understand the perquisite skill-set that a commercial pilot must have are able persuade Human Resources that times have moved on. It is extremely unlikely that a commercial pilot in constant practice with continuous training and assessment is going to be any different than the one who walked out of Cranebank 18 months previously. If anything they should be a better product.

I have nothing against how BA assess their DEPs. However the 12 to 18 month rule is a killer and seems to bite the airline in the rear when a bit of a swerve ball is thrown into the mix. The irony here is that BA could require DEPs in the not to distant future. It is a heart wrenching fact, especially when you've put everything into something that offers a great deal and then watch it all crumble away at the last minute.

I really hope a particular pilot recruitment manager wins this battle of common sense.

[Al Murdoch]

Since when has common sense had anything to do with anything at BA?

[ALLOW]

Thanks for the info Wirbelstrum!!! Your inputs are greatly appreciated and more often than not seem to hit the nail on the head!
Good to know LC and company are still fighting for us. Thanks!!! I hope you succeed!!
I can accept the HR view to an extent but surely an informal interview in LHR would be sufficient to prove our commitment and extend our time a little longer. Dare I say it but this will save BA an awful lot of cash.....
Not only that they will have a very experienced and varied group of pilots ready to start at short notice.
A win win no??

[Pontius]

irregardless if its DEP or FPP positions.

So, does that mean 'regarding' then?

Pilot's get back to selecting people and put an end to Math's Test's, Psychometric Test's, Verbal Reasoning Test's, Group Exercise's, Spatial Awareness Test's

An excellent example of what not to write

There was a time when the pilots on the selection team were more involved with the written tests and actually got to mark the essays. I abhor aberrant apostrophes and this sort of thing would have gone straight in the bin.

Funnily enough, this helps to explain some of the reasoning behind the tests. Every man and his dog that applies for DEP has an ATPL and a shed-load of hours. Most of them can fly, although I was surprised at some of the efforts in the sim So it comes down to other tests to weed out the small number of pilots who are selected versus the number that apply; hey presto, a bunch of other hoops through which to jump.

You'll be surprised to know the pilot selectors actually work closely with the HR people and help design and modify the selection procedures. HR do not dictate the way things are done and are actually a vital part of the set-up to ensure everything is done legally and according to best practice etc. Yes, those are mealy-mouthed words but in today's litigious society it's important to have people that are experts in the field and help keep the amateurs (pilot selectors) on the straight and narrow. No, I'm not HR. Yes, I was a selector. No, I don't think the holding pool times are long enough.

[shaun ryder]

In keeping with the postings above, spelling and punctuation are important, 2 Whites, I have seen the essays being marked! Good luck, (check your apostrophes though).

WTF has this got to do with flying aeroplanes?

Good at grammar gets you in it seems? A few questionable types make it through with limited hand skills for sure. But great at writing essays.

[bylgw]

Maybe it has something to do with being able to interpret the OPS manuals?

No system is perfect. Thomson's is/was similar to BA's, but you still end up with the good, the bad and the ugly. Take all the HR bull' out, just have a nice chat and sim check, and you still end up with the good, the bad and the ugly. No system is perfect.

[NigelOnDraft]

WTF has this got to do with flying aeroplanes?

Not a lot, but then this thread is about BA recruitment, not being a Test Pilot.

BA's requirements "assume" you can fly an aircraft to the required (which is not exceptional) standard, and BA will provide the training to maintain / improve that.

The assessment / application process is designed to find those individuals who meet BA's requirements which include leadership, representing the company, going the extra mile, potential for training / management etc. Such matters as taking the care, and having the education, to write well are pretty fundamental to that.

[Full Left Rudder]

Wirbelsturm,

Just in case any of us holder poolers could be harbouring false hope from your post, do you know if the current in house discussions between recruitment and HR are regarding the current hold pool or is it with respect to future recruitment?

[Iver]

Going forward, what are the likely fleets that will require staffing with new joiners? Let's assume you meet the qualifications with room to spare - not on the lowest end. In the coming years, will new delivery aircraft like the 787 and even A380 (SO) options? Are former BMI pilots primarily assigned to short haul or are they being spread out among the fleets based on vacancies/seniority?

Should a potential newhire expect a Bus/737 slot over the next few years as newer aircraft arrive and existing pilots bid them?

Cheers

[Callsign Kilo]

The campaign from Oct 2010 saw type streaming due to number requirements/training capacity. A few unrated guys went to the 744.

Not totally sure about the campaign ending in 2008, however i believe it was mostly shorthaul.

In 2005 quite a few went to the 777.

The FPP scheme ensures cadets are prioritised to shorthaul. BA pilots are entitled to bid across fleets after a number of years, however a bid doesn't guarantee acceptance. I suppose no one really knows what the fleet requirements will be going forward. It would depend on too many variables. It probably doesn't matter to most people attempting to join BA anyway

[overstress]

shaun ryder, NoD has eloquently answered your question.

It's all about getting into BA. They assume you can fly an aircraft and operate as a crew member.

Iver, if you use phrases like

going forward

, non-sentences like

In the coming years, will new delivery aircraft like the 787 and even A380 (SO) options?

and descriptions such as

potential newhire

you could do well in BA management...

[Craggenmore]

Back in the 1980's, BA employed a chap called Robin Acton. He served as the head of pilot recruitment for many years. He was also largely responsible for the process that you have all undergone since.

At recruitment time he would write to his selectors beforehand with guidelines to be followed.

One letter that I have of his from the mid 1980's states........

"...it is strongly advised at this moment in time to avoid selecting married pilots..."

So firstly, if you we're a married pilot who failed selection in the mid 1980's, now you know.

And secondly, do these practices still exist within BA?

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Pontius.....

Apologies for the poor grammar in my previous post. Clearly it bothered you but in my defence I had just woken up and was still a bit jaded to say the least. The patronizing tone is rather uncalled for though. The amount of effort I put into my CV etc is far greater than the effort I put into posting on PPRUNE. I'm sure you're the same.

I do understand the importance of attention to detail and therefore why you would throw an application in the bin if it turned up on your desk with poor spelling and grammar etc. Frankly it says alot about the person if they can't be arsed at such an early stage......but just bear in mind that a well placed apostrophe won't save you when an engine goes bang after V1!

Enjoy the rest of your weekend and back to the topic at hand.....BA Recruitment.

Cheers

2W2R

[Count Niemantznarr]

The Future Pilot Programme is a very poor deal compared to the old Cadetship.

Also the FPP's will never earn the money the DEP's earn, whereas before the Cadets would meet the DEP payscale at paypoint A5.

[Cough]

Count,

Please provide the reference for your statement...

Originally Posted by Count Niemantznarr

Also the FPP's will never earn the money the DEP's earn, whereas before the Cadets would meet the DEP payscale at paypoint A5.

Thanks! I believe this to be rubbish, but happy and willing for you to prove me wrong!

[fade to grey]

It never ceases to amaze me that people apply, pass, hold, kicked out....go through it all again and again.

At what point do you say "'I'm not being treated this badly" and decide to not bother again. I mean, you really must have no self respect to be shafted more than once.

Now I understand BA offers the best pay, good rosters eventually, poor upgrade opportunities and an absolute bucketload of PC and incomprehensible management w£&k speak. But really...

[Abbey Road]

12+ years to command?

At least 12.

That is just the way it is, I'm afraid. The situation is likely to be made worse by the BMI integration. Just another fact of life, but it doesn't mean the job is an unpleasant one!

The Future Pilot Programme is a very poor deal compared to the old Cadetship.

Also the FPP's will never earn the money the DEP's earn, whereas before the Cadets would meet the DEP payscale at paypoint A5.

Count Niemantznarr, your point is ....... what? There are still an overwhelming number of applicants for the program because the pay, conditions, opportunities and route structure are still notably better than other UK and European employers. Your pronouncements indicate shallow knowledge and point to an underlying issue - you don't like pilots, particularly those in BA? Previously you have spouted such as this:

BMI cabin crew are not going to join the Legacy crew, that is for sure. There has been very little information about what will happen to the BMI cabin crew, but I feel there is a surprise coming.

Two things may happen; either they will end up on Mixed Fleet, or they will be the nucleus for BA Express. Mixed Fleet is being pulled off of the PHX route now after losing ATL. The future for this fleet due to 900 hour rule, is shorthaul and short longhaul.

Talk about highlighting your shortcomings! Got all that wrong, didn't you? Perhaps your time would be better spent spinning your untruths amongst your militant cabin crew colleagues? They might believe you.

[Libertine Winno]

As far as I know, FPP'ers will equate to the same salary as DEP FO's once the 7 years of bond repayment (£1,000/month)...?

[Callsign Kilo]

Fade to grey

People aren't being treated badly. Personal experience testifies that the recruiters have been both forthcoming and approachable throughout the duration of the hold pool. The pool 'officially' hasn't been closed (a la 2008) even though it has been explained in no uncertain terms that DEP recruitment isn't anticipated in 2013. There has been much 'behind the scenes' suggestion that debate still exists over what can be done for those 80 odd people that have been through selection. Only time will tell on that one, however it's probably correct in not hoping for too much. Anything else is a bonus, right?

BA are no different than anyone else. They are just a business whose primary function is to transport people from A to B in a tin can with wings. They are part of the same ****ty industry that makes people redundant, messes with peoples lives, raises their hopes and dashes them. They make no promise to offer enployment after passing selection and make this extremely clear with a big red disclaimer at the bottom of the application for their DEP program. In my experience they treat people differently than a lot of the airlines that I've experienced. Maybe that's why people go through selection, in the hope that they might get somewhere where they are treated that little bit better.