Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
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Taxation??
I understand this is most probably a question for the tax advisor/accountant but just thought some guys already on the contract may have a bit of inside info.
I have seen the the salary on the 'contract' position for DEC is 7500euro and then 800euro 'housing allowance', 500euro 'allowance' and then 18euro per block hour flown.
My question is if anybody has any first hand info on how this is being taxed for guys in Spain or UK?? Is it just the fixed salary which is taxed and the allowances are left alone or is the whole amount taxed at the same rate?
Obviously makes quite a difference to the take home pay which is where the interest comes from
Thanks to all kind enough to contribute.
I have seen the the salary on the 'contract' position for DEC is 7500euro and then 800euro 'housing allowance', 500euro 'allowance' and then 18euro per block hour flown.
My question is if anybody has any first hand info on how this is being taxed for guys in Spain or UK?? Is it just the fixed salary which is taxed and the allowances are left alone or is the whole amount taxed at the same rate?
Obviously makes quite a difference to the take home pay which is where the interest comes from
Thanks to all kind enough to contribute.
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Guys being taxed as "non-resident" are paying 24.75% (if I remember correctly) on everything.
Guys "tax-resident" pay normal Spanish tax on salary & hourly rate, the 1300€ is not taxed. This gives a pretty good balance between gross/net for the FO's, but I suspect the Capt's salary would attract higher tax rates, the FO's get away with 20.1% on salary + 4?/ 5? % social. . . I would guess a large part of Capt salary would be at (say) 40ish%, so , if not resident , non-resident tax would be the way to go I would hazard.
Guys "tax-resident" pay normal Spanish tax on salary & hourly rate, the 1300€ is not taxed. This gives a pretty good balance between gross/net for the FO's, but I suspect the Capt's salary would attract higher tax rates, the FO's get away with 20.1% on salary + 4?/ 5? % social. . . I would guess a large part of Capt salary would be at (say) 40ish%, so , if not resident , non-resident tax would be the way to go I would hazard.
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Mach85
The taxation issue is also complicated in the UK by which agency you are "employed" by.
This will all soon be academic as soon all the pilots will be employed by a local NAS subsidiary company.
This will all soon be academic as soon all the pilots will be employed by a local NAS subsidiary company.
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Captplaystation, A and C.
Many thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated.
Guess maybe its best to wait then for these new 'local NAS contracts' to come into effect and see how they pan out first.
Guess maybe its best to wait then for these new 'local NAS contracts' to come into effect and see how they pan out first.
Taxation is something for the experts.
24.75% (used to be 24%) in Spain is the so called Beckham tax and is for ex pats who are resident in Spain. This has to be applied to through the government, however, I believe this is not available and may even of been withdrawn, despite one having a 5 year certificate of entitlement!
The normal tax in Spain depends a lot upon mortgages, kids, schools etc.
All governments are broke and pilots are easy targets, dont expect a free ride!
24.75% (used to be 24%) in Spain is the so called Beckham tax and is for ex pats who are resident in Spain. This has to be applied to through the government, however, I believe this is not available and may even of been withdrawn, despite one having a 5 year certificate of entitlement!
The normal tax in Spain depends a lot upon mortgages, kids, schools etc.
All governments are broke and pilots are easy targets, dont expect a free ride!
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aircowboy,
Yes. . many (indeed most, except ex RYR guys ) I know have joined with only "Classic" time.
trancada,
google "Norwegian Air Shuttle /Madrid" . Big press conference, looks like June 2014
Cont (nice user name , especially with an Irish accent 
)
AFAIK still both.
Yes. . many (indeed most, except ex RYR guys ) I know have joined with only "Classic" time.
trancada,
google "Norwegian Air Shuttle /Madrid" . Big press conference, looks like June 2014
Cont (nice user name
, especially with an Irish accent )AFAIK still both.
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After many complaints & (a few) resignations a meeting was held between crew-planning & the pilots in LGW which has resulted in NAS "trialing" 5/4 in LGW base for Nov/Dec. Hopefully, it will work out OK & the rest of the contract bases will get the "core" roster pattern too.
Otherwise it is 12 OFF/mth variable. Most of the time it is OK, apart from LGW (previously) 2 off is rare & normally commuting is OK (depending on where your base/home are located, obviously.) The Canaries are a long way for anyone, even mainland Spain is a pain, HEL suits the Scandies (apart from the cost of living in Finland ) & LGW & the Spanish (mainland) bases are fairly OK to anywhere.
Commuting is a pain in the hole of course, but, what to do, unless you can go to, & stay at, one base long-term, which has not been the "contract pilot" experience in NAS thus far.
Otherwise it is 12 OFF/mth variable. Most of the time it is OK, apart from LGW (previously) 2 off is rare & normally commuting is OK (depending on where your base/home are located, obviously.) The Canaries are a long way for anyone, even mainland Spain is a pain, HEL suits the Scandies (apart from the cost of living in Finland ) & LGW & the Spanish (mainland) bases are fairly OK to anywhere.
Commuting is a pain in the hole of course, but, what to do, unless you can go to, & stay at, one base long-term, which has not been the "contract pilot" experience in NAS thus far.
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Hello captainplaystation.
As a former colleague of yours Im just about to resign from Europe's favorite low cost (enough of their bull****)
I've been offered a position with NAS starting next year but the idea of not knowing my allocated base at all worries me a lot as I do have family with me. I've read your post about lifestile and commuting but how long do you think it would take me to get; yes a base down in the Canaries. Do you have any idea of NAS plans for the Canaries.
And most important. Do you still concider it a good switch or it is more or less the same cr..
As a former colleague of yours Im just about to resign from Europe's favorite low cost (enough of their bull****)
I've been offered a position with NAS starting next year but the idea of not knowing my allocated base at all worries me a lot as I do have family with me. I've read your post about lifestile and commuting but how long do you think it would take me to get; yes a base down in the Canaries. Do you have any idea of NAS plans for the Canaries.
And most important. Do you still concider it a good switch or it is more or less the same cr..
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jedy
A good switch ? yes definitely. The events of a couple of weeks ago (the "taking it to the wire" strike threat ) have shown the value of Union representation, I hope all in Ryanair & the RPG have taken note.
For sure , particularly as it is only a 1 year deal, NAS wil "try it on " again in 1 years time. At the moment we have 660/680 ? "core" pilots & around 300? contractors, in 1 years time the proportion will be different, and NAS may feel a little braver to take it to the wire.
Of course, by then, a certain proportion of contractors should be "permanently employed" & hopefully we are going to learn the lessons from the Ryanair model & have all the European Pilot Unions communicating through the ECA , so that we remain a United Group (well, I can dream
) Another factor NAS should bear in mind, many of our Contractors are ex Ryanair, and have come here to escape the constant devaluing/ "adjusting" of contracts that NAS proposed this springtime, so, it won't ever be the walkover enjoyed by MOL.
For sure, long term, there is the risk of a deterioration, however, the future expansion means they should be of a mind to keep us semi-sweet, and we are starting from a higher point. The company culture is night & day from Ryanair, the only fly in the ointment being that when Bjorn Kjos finished reading Herb Kelleners biography, the next book he picked off the shelf was Michael O' Learys' one
Canaries base is a difficult one. Most of us are NOT there by choice & certainly it is a commuting nightmare for those who have their home elsewhere. The base (or rather bases ) are likely to shrink back down to max 1/2 aircraft again next Spring (not so good timing for you ) as they did last Spring time. There were rumoured to be 6 (or even 8 ) aircraft based in LPA this Winter, so far. . only 3, & TFS is (I think ) only 2. Lots of night-stopping crew from Scandilands, which is what they were trying to avoid by having Canarias bases. I think if you could get yourself into a base down there, the chance to stay is fairly reasonable, as most of us (regretably for our lifestyle) are commuting. It seems that unless you are really lucky , or are able to master coercion (a few have done) NAS will not guarantee a base until some stage during your training. They have appointed a new bod to deal with basings, the previous one was very pleasant
but I think she was maxed out by this & her numerous other responsibilities , so has moved sideways in the office to deal with less stressful things.
NAS have a fairly poor record with Contractors when it comes to base allocations versus date of entry in the company. With our new deal , it seems "date of entry" as a contractor may soon equate to "company seniority", hopefully this will result in base allocations becoming less "Ryanairesque".
Overall, I would say go for it, already better than Ryanair & likely to remain so, even if we have the odd moment of turbulence to overcome in the next fw years.
HEL based pilots will be 1st to receive a permanent contract from a "wholly owned subsidiary " of NAS, come March we will at this stage see the value the company places on its "valued loyal workforce" in Finland.
A good switch ? yes definitely. The events of a couple of weeks ago (the "taking it to the wire" strike threat ) have shown the value of Union representation, I hope all in Ryanair & the RPG have taken note.
For sure , particularly as it is only a 1 year deal, NAS wil "try it on " again in 1 years time. At the moment we have 660/680 ? "core" pilots & around 300? contractors, in 1 years time the proportion will be different, and NAS may feel a little braver to take it to the wire.
Of course, by then, a certain proportion of contractors should be "permanently employed" & hopefully we are going to learn the lessons from the Ryanair model & have all the European Pilot Unions communicating through the ECA , so that we remain a United Group (well, I can dream
) Another factor NAS should bear in mind, many of our Contractors are ex Ryanair, and have come here to escape the constant devaluing/ "adjusting" of contracts that NAS proposed this springtime, so, it won't ever be the walkover enjoyed by MOL.For sure, long term, there is the risk of a deterioration, however, the future expansion means they should be of a mind to keep us semi-sweet, and we are starting from a higher point. The company culture is night & day from Ryanair, the only fly in the ointment being that when Bjorn Kjos finished reading Herb Kelleners biography, the next book he picked off the shelf was Michael O' Learys' one
Canaries base is a difficult one. Most of us are NOT there by choice & certainly it is a commuting nightmare for those who have their home elsewhere. The base (or rather bases ) are likely to shrink back down to max 1/2 aircraft again next Spring (not so good timing for you ) as they did last Spring time. There were rumoured to be 6 (or even 8 ) aircraft based in LPA this Winter, so far. . only 3, & TFS is (I think ) only 2. Lots of night-stopping crew from Scandilands, which is what they were trying to avoid by having Canarias bases. I think if you could get yourself into a base down there, the chance to stay is fairly reasonable, as most of us (regretably for our lifestyle) are commuting. It seems that unless you are really lucky , or are able to master coercion (a few have done) NAS will not guarantee a base until some stage during your training. They have appointed a new bod to deal with basings, the previous one was very pleasant
but I think she was maxed out by this & her numerous other responsibilities , so has moved sideways in the office to deal with less stressful things. NAS have a fairly poor record with Contractors when it comes to base allocations versus date of entry in the company. With our new deal , it seems "date of entry" as a contractor may soon equate to "company seniority", hopefully this will result in base allocations becoming less "Ryanairesque".
Overall, I would say go for it, already better than Ryanair & likely to remain so, even if we have the odd moment of turbulence to overcome in the next fw years.
HEL based pilots will be 1st to receive a permanent contract from a "wholly owned subsidiary " of NAS, come March we will at this stage see the value the company places on its "valued loyal workforce" in Finland.
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Captplaystation,
Your info has been invaluable to people like me on the brink of making the jump, or maybe hop is more accurate.
Could you tell me what are the prospects for command for a reasonably high hour FO joining NAS now? I understand their minimums are 4000TT and a year in, once you meet these criteria is it easy enough to get a shot at command or is there anything else to complicate this for contractors?
Also how easy or difficult would it be to get LGW based? and do you have any idea what the typical flying schedule looks like from here, 2 or 4 sectors or many overnights?
Your info has been invaluable to people like me on the brink of making the jump, or maybe hop is more accurate.
Could you tell me what are the prospects for command for a reasonably high hour FO joining NAS now? I understand their minimums are 4000TT and a year in, once you meet these criteria is it easy enough to get a shot at command or is there anything else to complicate this for contractors?
Also how easy or difficult would it be to get LGW based? and do you have any idea what the typical flying schedule looks like from here, 2 or 4 sectors or many overnights?
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Tiempoby
The Command process at the moment seems to involve "core FO's" more than Contractors. It seems enough core guys are willing to take leave of absence to be Contract Capts to fill the vacancies. This is undoubtedly a little bit Union led, although I am not sure how happy the Union are about this. . . so, difficult to see how this will pan out.
I don't at this time know of one Contract FO undertaking Command, it may be happening & I just haven't heard, or met the person, but I believe that is the current status. As Contractors become a higher percentage of the total, this may change, however an added complication is that all "Contractors" are supposed to become "Permanent" & be integrated into one seniority list, this could be a "bad thing" for any Contractor looking for a quick upgrade ( ? )
LGW is a base with BIG expansion foreseen, shouldn't take too long I would imagine, even if you don't get it immediately on joining. They have (Nov/Dec) a 5/4 roster "on trial", hopefully this will work & be an ongoing feature , which may even trickle down to the other contract bases (hopefully)
I have heard that the workload there is amongst the highest of any NAS base, 4 sector fairly long days, not too many nightstops I would guess, but there must be some, as 6 sector days also happen & that must involve going "Ooop Norff" & bouncing around as nothing possible from LGW involving 6 sectors. There was a bit of hassle with many "Early Day1 /Late Day 5 " rosters, haven't heard if the 5/4 has sorted that out , one would hope so.
The Command process at the moment seems to involve "core FO's" more than Contractors. It seems enough core guys are willing to take leave of absence to be Contract Capts to fill the vacancies. This is undoubtedly a little bit Union led, although I am not sure how happy the Union are about this. . . so, difficult to see how this will pan out.
I don't at this time know of one Contract FO undertaking Command, it may be happening & I just haven't heard, or met the person, but I believe that is the current status. As Contractors become a higher percentage of the total, this may change, however an added complication is that all "Contractors" are supposed to become "Permanent" & be integrated into one seniority list, this could be a "bad thing" for any Contractor looking for a quick upgrade ( ? )
LGW is a base with BIG expansion foreseen, shouldn't take too long I would imagine, even if you don't get it immediately on joining. They have (Nov/Dec) a 5/4 roster "on trial", hopefully this will work & be an ongoing feature , which may even trickle down to the other contract bases (hopefully)
I have heard that the workload there is amongst the highest of any NAS base, 4 sector fairly long days, not too many nightstops I would guess, but there must be some, as 6 sector days also happen & that must involve going "Ooop Norff" & bouncing around as nothing possible from LGW involving 6 sectors. There was a bit of hassle with many "Early Day1 /Late Day 5 " rosters, haven't heard if the 5/4 has sorted that out , one would hope so.
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Thanks a lot. That sounds terribly close to an FR workload, as much as I'd prefer 2 sectors a week I suppose I am being a bit ambitious. Is there any word on more UK bases coming? MAN would be a dream.
Confusing situation for command hopefuls then, although they're clearly going to have a need for many Captains it would be frustrating to move from an airline where you're on the cusp of starting a course to be sidelined in favour of DECs. Decisions decisions ey.
Confusing situation for command hopefuls then, although they're clearly going to have a need for many Captains it would be frustrating to move from an airline where you're on the cusp of starting a course to be sidelined in favour of DECs. Decisions decisions ey.
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MAN was a rumour, but I think it was started by some guys who wanted a MAN base
You could always take the Command in FR & defer NAS for 18mths to join as DEC instead ? we "should" be recruiting DEC's for the foreseeable. . . of course, the policy could change & I would then regret giving you that advice.
I know guys who were offered the position, turned it down, and were welcome 6mths later when they realised they had backed the wrong horse. Unlike some other companies, they seem wiling to accept they are not the only show in town , and should you decide otherwise it is not held against you (I have heard the inverse about NAS long-haul however)
Certainly if you come along for assessment, and it is going OK, there would be no harm in instigating a frank discussion on staying with FR & gaining Command versus how long (?) to have a crack at it as a Contractor in NAS. They are normally quite amenable to answering these concerns, & realise you have your own life/career to run whether they are included or not.
You could always take the Command in FR & defer NAS for 18mths to join as DEC instead ? we "should" be recruiting DEC's for the foreseeable. . . of course, the policy could change & I would then regret giving you that advice.
I know guys who were offered the position, turned it down, and were welcome 6mths later when they realised they had backed the wrong horse. Unlike some other companies, they seem wiling to accept they are not the only show in town , and should you decide otherwise it is not held against you (I have heard the inverse about NAS long-haul however)
Certainly if you come along for assessment, and it is going OK, there would be no harm in instigating a frank discussion on staying with FR & gaining Command versus how long (?) to have a crack at it as a Contractor in NAS. They are normally quite amenable to answering these concerns, & realise you have your own life/career to run whether they are included or not.