Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes

[Watersidewonker]

they got nothing more than those that did not strike and were not BASSA members,

How could you not give those you've used and abused the same deal as those you didn't ?

Staff Travel was re-instated slowly

Crazy statement. You either get it or you don't. Everyone got it back in full at exactly the same time.

increasing threat to the long term survival of WW and EF

The threat has now been slowed somewhat - until the last one leaves eithe voluntarily or with an acceptable redundancy package.

So what sage advice do the wonder negotiators of BASSA have to give their comrades in arms at IBERIA?

I would say stick in until you have a package that's acceptable to you and gives you protections going forward. It worked for us.

[Wirbelsturm]

What was gained was contractual guarantee protecting all crew for the rest of their career on a whole range of issues from pay to forced transfer.

Only because BA had already achieved far beyond what was needed from the original demands.

It offered one off the aircraft and the CSD integrated into the cabin service.

That was what BA implemented after a failure to reach agreement. Not what BASSA 'offered'. Get it right.

Soon Wibbly, you and your colleagues will have your own Mixed Fleet to worry about as BA Express starts up. You know it is coming. What are you going to do about it?

Manager again this week? Once again the 'you're next' threat. Old news.

Absolutely 100% correct - 3500 members not 3500 reports.

There has been a special meeting called by BASSA over the bullying of cabin crew by pilots, and any neutral reader of this forum can see through the tone and aggression of some of the pilots here, that there is substance to the allegations as well as facts and incidents.

If such a number is true then surely we would see the same percentile reporting from MF. Oh but we don't do we, purely and simply yet another BASSA axe to grind. Bullying and harassment seems to be anyone who doesn't agree with the BASSA line.

Admittedly, in a large company such as BA, there will be cases and these are to be stamped upon. What the BASSArites don't want to admit to is that there are an awful lot of cases that go the other way.

The other academics were not 'led' by KD. Just your paranoia Wirby

The economy of the country was wrecked by the reckless actions of the Labour party and it's cronies who failed to save anything from one of the biggest boom periods of the 20th century. Now, during the resulting triple dip recession Ed Balls and all his finance 'experts/academics' claim constantly to know what needs doing and everything the Coalition is doing is rubbish. They had 13 years to prove the knew what they were doing and they didn't. I trust their 'experts/academics' as much as I trust those in the pocket of Unite and their pet party the Labour party. Ask a similar number of experts from the city and they will say that BA handled the dispute very well.

Oh well, nice to spy into the world of the red. Off to work now to bully and harass. I think this thread has strayed far too far from it's original intent. Enough from me, I'm tired of going around the houses with no cohesive argument coming from the other side. I live in a world of facts not hearsay and gesture. Enjoy you dreams Wonker and Count.

[Watersidewonker]

£3.50 per month x 10,000 is £35,000 per MONTH not per ANNUM the total is £420,000 per ANNUM.
Now I know barbies at Bedfont can cost a few bob and Willie Walsh masks for 10,000 cost a pretty penny but £420,000 per year to run a tinpot little outfit like BASSA not forgetting that UNITE take a bigger share of the pie and provide all the legals etc. even a dingbat like you should be able to manage.

Of course it is VC, how naughty of me. I meant to say £35,000pm which is nothing to run a branch of 10000 members. Office rental alone takes up a huge chunk. Please lay off the name calling and bullying VC.

[vctenderness]

Of course it is VC, how naughty of me. I meant to say £35,000pm which is nothing to run a branch of 10000 members. Office rental alone takes up a huge chunk. Please lay off the name calling and bullying VC.

Office rental? Firstly BA provided free of charge 2 offices at T5 for sole use of BASSA and the offices at UNITE are not charged for either. What office cost did you have then?


Not sure what bullying and name calling I have done.


Mind you everyone is a 'bully' if they don't bow down to the mighty BASSA and its adherents.

[Watersidewonker]

Office rental? Firstly BA provided free of charge 2 offices at T5 for sole use of BASSA and the offices at UNITE are not charged for either. What office cost did you have then?

Oh BASSA/Unite administrator now. Check your facts VC - your challenge for the week.
And purely as a payed up member of BASSA I have to say I am delighted at only having to pay only £200 per year for the protection it gives me, including access to a Rep 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 24 hour access to a lawyer.
I'm sure I get much more for my bucks than you get from your gentlemens club VC.
Goodbye Wirby, my dear friend - I'll miss your (right wing) views!

[WhyByFlier]

WW I'd stop while you're not further behind. There are those that don't know and those that don't know they don't know. You appear to be the later. You quote these supposed facts without thinking. They're evidence for nothing. How about you accept your social and financial position, accept that you affected it and stop trying to antagonise and leach from those that have achieved better than you. The sooner you learn that you can not win because your points are devoid of substance, the sooner you can get on with what's left of your life and take advantage of the position BA have very generously allowed for you.

[wiggy]

and any neutral reader of this forum can see through the tone and aggression of some of the pilots here, that there is substance to the allegations as well as facts and incidents.

I think the genuinely neutral reader can see that some people are arguing robustly with the BASSA line. Trying to draw a link between that and bullying and harrasment says a lot about the mindset of some posters.

in your case is currently stalled by Fat Cat senior Captains earning around £200,000 a year.

Ah so we're no longer throwing £300,000 into the mix?.....We'll get down to the genuine income received by most senior BA captains -eventually.

[Count Niemantznarr]

Well Wiggy, I didn't think it fair to call it £300,000 a year as that includes the pension. However total income of around £300,000 per annum is feasible and achievable.

WhyByFlier, your post displays the most breathtaking arrogance and would be funny if you were not being serious. There are many pilots who had regular jobs before they started their training, some were even cabin crew. A far as I know, the course is all about learning to fly an aeroplane, not becoming part of some master race. In fact there is no mystery to flying at all, my 61 year old neighbour has just got her PPL at Goodwood. When I spoke to her the other day, she still seemed perfectly normal.

[WhyByFlier]

Ok so you let your 61 year old lady friend take you up in an airliner if what we do is so easy. No? I didn't think you'd be keen.

[Watersidewonker]

How about you accept your social and financial position, accept that you affected it and stop trying to antagonise and leach from those that have achieved better than you.

WhyByFlyer, thanks. If ever there was proof needed of the sheer arrogance and dismissive attitude to colleagues yours is it.

[A and C]

Thread creep !

I logged on to this thread find out about the job losses at Iberia due to the BA take over.............the last twenty or so posts are so off topic that it seems they have nothing at all to do with the original subject.

Why do this BASSA lot seem to hijack anythread even remotely connected to BA ?

[Watersidewonker]

Sorry A and C, the arrogant self centred lot have to have the last word.
Anyway back on track - BALPA have just issued a statement supporting the Iberia crews and have said that under no circumstances will they allow BA to strike break. Paella on Wednesday boys? (Free!)

[Count Niemantznarr]

Really Wonker?

Here is the Mutuality Agreement between BALPA and SEPLA.

BALPA | BA AND IBERIA PILOT UNIONS TO WORK TOGETHER

[BlueUpGood]

BALPA's statement:

Please see below a statement from the British Airline Pilots’ Association on the eve of industrial action involving Spanish pilots employed by Iberia and represented by the Spanish Pilots’ Association, Sepla. Spanish pilots are due to take industrial action from 4-8 March 2013.

We are disappointed that Iberia missed a golden opportunity to reach an agreement on jobs and cost-saving measures with the Spanish trade unions representing pilots, cabin crew and ground staff. The airline’s disproportionate response – 3,800 compulsory job losses and pay cuts – has inevitably triggered a new round of strikes as Iberia employees understandably seek to protect their livelihoods.

BALPA is now seriously concerned that Iberia’s inability to secure support amongst its own employees for its restructuring plans will engulf the Spanish flag carrier in industrial turmoil for months to come and inflict lasting damage on its business.

BALPA's own recent experience of helping redefine and rebuild the BA brand is that it is through a joint approach built on mutual respect that success comes. That is a key missing ingredient in the Iberia dispute and one that has to be found quickly. BALPA will offer what help it can to help the parties to that end.

BALPA stresses that it will resist any management move to draw BA pilots into Iberia operations in this dispute. Such a move has the potential to backfire hugely and, rather than help solve a dispute in Spain, is more likely to create another in Britain and divert BA from the effort and attention it has recently played in rebuilding BA.

We therefore call on Iberia and IAG management to reconsider their proposals and redouble their efforts to reach an agreement with the Spanish trade unions.

[Juan Tugoh]

BALPA have just issued a statement supporting the Iberia crews and have said that under circumstances will they allow BA to strike break. Paella on Wednesday boys?

And here we have it, a lovely piece of mischief that illustrates the cancer at the core of BASSA.

Unions do not "allow" their members to do anything, they make no laws nor do they grant any rights or privileges. They negotiate terms and conditions of employment and support their members when those members need support. Union members are not an army of mindless fools there only to do as their bosses allow and dictate.

This one illuminating detail of the mindset of BASSA shows clearly how firmly they are stuck in the 70s, the decade that saw the destruction of British manufacturing industry as it became more and more mired in strikes, lead by hapless union barons. Hapless union barons such as Len McKlusley, who personally oversaw the virtual elimination of the Liverpool dockworkers. This same hapless fool is now in charge of UNITE, of which BASSA is a branch.

Proof in one short post exactly how irrelevant and dangerous advice from this source would be to those in IB.

[Count Niemantznarr]

BALPA's assistance to BA during the cabin crew strike certainly backfired spectacularly. Perhaps a lesson has been learned to keep your nose out of other people's business?

Unfortunately Walsh has put Iberia into its own version of coffin corner. The difference between taking on just the cabin crew at BA and the whole airline virtually at Iberia, could mean the end of the Spanish carrier. Why? Because the BA brand is much stronger and has been able to withstand strikes and the infliction of sub-standard low cost employees on its customers. At Iberia, the brand is nowhere near as resilient, and has not much appeal amongst the travelling public.

Iberia could have been turned round, but it will not survive the Walsh style and is now doomed to fail.

[Charlie Pop]

How did that backfire? I didn't notice any negative outcome. The only difference was a few stroppy cabin crew declaring they "weren't going to socialise with flight deck", but given they didn't do that previously and most pilots have no interests in doing that even if it was offered it's hardly a negative.

I think you've got your events arse about face there Count. IB is in coffin corner precisely because it has not much appeal amongst the public. By the way, customer satisfaction remains high amongst passengers with the 'sub-standard, low cost employees', and I for one find it a breathe of fresh air to go to SEP with people who actually know their stuff rather than fluffing their door drills, ditching procedures and cabin searches like legacy do every flipping year.

[Watersidewonker]

And here we have it, a lovely piece of mischief that illustrates the cancer at the core of BASSA

It's actually BALPA that put out the press release JT, not BASSA.
Shame, has BALPA ruined your mini holiday?

Iberia Limits Strike Impact as Walsh Told Not to Draft BA Pilots - Bloomberg

[Charlie Pop]

Errm wasn't it you that posted some rubbish about allowing Walsh to strike break? I can't see those words in the BALPA release. Seems like Juan got it right, you are imagining meanings which aren't there, no doubt driven by your misconceptions about union control of it's members. I'm sure BA pilots will act in accordance with the laws of the UK. By the way, whatever happened tothe support of the Teamsters in the USA during your squabble. I'd heard they were going to cripple BA but it didn't seem to happen. Probably because 50% of BASSA members went into work (according to the latest release by Admin anyway!).

[Count Niemantznarr]

I think you are all "Mixed" up Charlie Pop ref your comments about SEP. The new fleet are now sharing SEP days in the mock ups, yet they sit their exam somewhere else. Surely they are not there to raise the standards of Legacy crew?

Here is a nice sycophantic article about our friends, but it is the comments from the customers that are most interesting. You know Charlie, the people that pay your wages.
What You Need To Know About British Airways' New Mixed Fleet || Jaunted

Returning to topic, if Willie Walsh orders BA pilots to fly Iberia planes or services in BA aircraft, they will do what they are told, regardless of what their toothless association says.