Ryanair pilot terms & endearment (Merged)
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Ms. Turret's Propaganda Efforts
Way back on December 23rd this entirely fictitious Ryanair pilot Ms. Turret failed to respond to the accurate post by “Wonder Brat and the rest of the whingers” and came up with a figure of 4k. per month (“she” claims this would be worth the “discomfort” described by Wonder Brat). This 4k, via a post of “7k so far this month” is now 11k per month. The trick is to persuade you to do lots of multiplying by 12, plus some self-persuasion that it would be worth it “in the short term” or “just to get started” or even worth it “in the long term when I can earn that kind of money”.
There have been enough warnings here to know exactly what you are getting into if you join Ryanair. If you are going to do it however, just do this: get them to tell you, in writing, IN ADVANCE OF BEING TRAPPED what you terms and conditions will be. The more junior and the more inexperienced you are THE MORE IMPORTANT THIS ADVICE. When they tell you that you will get your final contract later, this will constitute your final chance to escape.
Hey there mistress Ozi, any chance you could tell us about this paradise – the one you describe above: “…my last company. 2 sector days, hour and a half between turn arounds, 5 star hotels when down route..”? Which company paradise was this - like the NAME!?
There have been enough warnings here to know exactly what you are getting into if you join Ryanair. If you are going to do it however, just do this: get them to tell you, in writing, IN ADVANCE OF BEING TRAPPED what you terms and conditions will be. The more junior and the more inexperienced you are THE MORE IMPORTANT THIS ADVICE. When they tell you that you will get your final contract later, this will constitute your final chance to escape.
Hey there mistress Ozi, any chance you could tell us about this paradise – the one you describe above: “…my last company. 2 sector days, hour and a half between turn arounds, 5 star hotels when down route..”? Which company paradise was this - like the NAME!?
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Your thinly veiled threat is a joke Ms Turret. How much did I earn? Is mine bigger than yours?
This thread is about the appaling COS at Ryanair, and you can try and sugarcoat it as much as you like, but the reality is, it's crap. Now, you seem to be going off on a tangent about the "bad old days" when pilots were treated like people, god forbid. How is it then, that here we still get the 5 star treatment, water and food (!) and continue to make a very sizeable profit every year? You can't blame the pilots, or the unions, for causing airline bankruptcy. Why don't management (thats obviously what you are) ever blame themselves and their piss poor management and business plans when things go wrong? Its always the same, blame the pilots, its their wages that made us go broke!
You can't "save" an airline into profitability. I understand that Ryanair does not yet have that problem, and good on them for making money, but why not share the wealth a little? You have a very unhappy workforce, so time to remove head from ass and realise that. If you want to go around bagging other airlines, because they have a good COS for their staff, and call them power hungry Atlantic Barons, then you had be pretty bloody sure your not doing the same.
It might interest you to note the thread running about the tsunami victims being charged exhorbitant fees to get home, maybe, as a management type, you would like to explain that little pearler?
Nice one Ryanair top brass.
This thread is about the appaling COS at Ryanair, and you can try and sugarcoat it as much as you like, but the reality is, it's crap. Now, you seem to be going off on a tangent about the "bad old days" when pilots were treated like people, god forbid. How is it then, that here we still get the 5 star treatment, water and food (!) and continue to make a very sizeable profit every year? You can't blame the pilots, or the unions, for causing airline bankruptcy. Why don't management (thats obviously what you are) ever blame themselves and their piss poor management and business plans when things go wrong? Its always the same, blame the pilots, its their wages that made us go broke! You can't "save" an airline into profitability. I understand that Ryanair does not yet have that problem, and good on them for making money, but why not share the wealth a little? You have a very unhappy workforce, so time to remove head from ass and realise that. If you want to go around bagging other airlines, because they have a good COS for their staff, and call them power hungry Atlantic Barons, then you had be pretty bloody sure your not doing the same. It might interest you to note the thread running about the tsunami victims being charged exhorbitant fees to get home, maybe, as a management type, you would like to explain that little pearler?
Nice one Ryanair top brass.
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Nosegear failure.
“7k so far this month” is now 11k per month.
This thread is about the appaling COS at Ryanair, SIC my italics
How is it then, that here we still get the 5 star treatment, water and food (!) and continue to make a very sizeable profit every year?
its their wages that made us go broke!
but why not share the wealth a little?
Listen carefully. If you don't like what we at Ryanair have on offer, stay away. If you're already here and don't like it, leave. The market will determine our success or failure as an airline, and the market will determine, whether you like it or not, Nosey, the nature of the terms and conditions Ryanair offers to its pilot employees. I'm one of them, around for longer in this business than I care to remember, and I took home to my family’s table over €11000 last month, and yes, dreadful as it may seem, I actually had to fill a water bottle and take a jar of Nescafé to work in my flight bag. Oh dear!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Ms. Turret (Ozi) = Moritz Suter.
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I have to say Ms Turret, you have crossed a very sensitive line by aligning pilot unions with terrorists. I think an apology is in order there mate, and fast. I also see (a while ago) we will never agree, however, I would, along with others, like to see answers to the questions posed.
If you read carefully, instead of looking for ways to turn my points into some kind of attack on successful companies, then you would note that I am not against companies such as Ryanair making money. But why not, if you are as successful as you say, start to look after your employees? Its a simple question. It's not about some old Das Capital or whatever you think you are quoting there. As for sticking my hand out, you have obviously not heard of SARS and the way the company and employees came together. Maybe look that up before you sling your crap as facts.
I will see you in a year, then we will compare T's and C's. I look forward to it and an apology for your appaling comment above.
If you read carefully, instead of looking for ways to turn my points into some kind of attack on successful companies, then you would note that I am not against companies such as Ryanair making money. But why not, if you are as successful as you say, start to look after your employees? Its a simple question. It's not about some old Das Capital or whatever you think you are quoting there. As for sticking my hand out, you have obviously not heard of SARS and the way the company and employees came together. Maybe look that up before you sling your crap as facts.
I will see you in a year, then we will compare T's and C's. I look forward to it and an apology for your appaling comment above.
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Turret-Ozi. You are an appalling piece of work and it comes as no surprise that you work for a company peopled by an appalling, offensive, bullying and generally objectionable senior management team which is devoid of any moral substance. You complain about marxist ideologues without apparently having the faintest sense of how utterly ideological you are yourself - and all of your posts, regardless of the identity you use - always revert to the same extemist ideological message: "greed is good" and "money is the measure of all things". Like all ideologues, the world will catch up with you and reality will come to bear. You can then retire sure in the knowledge that the world has not been equal to your superiour skills. Nothing, not all the money in the world, can compensate you for being so utterly repugnant and objectionable, not that you will ever notice.
You will not, of course, withdraw the terrorist statement you made above. I justify my comments above on the utter unacceptability of your comment.
You will not, of course, withdraw the terrorist statement you made above. I justify my comments above on the utter unacceptability of your comment.
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As the big red caveat at the bottom of the page so clearly applies to the malodourous Ms Turret, has the time not come to ban this berk of questionable gender from these columns?
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Its the threat to the business model and, crucially, continued production that represents the knife held to the throat of airline businesses.
As a manager, Ozi, you clearly missed out of the valuable lesson that the happier the staff, the more productive they are.
I also submit that the real "knife held to the throat of airline businesses" is in fact vastly incompetent management. I could list numerous examples here of how management, not the pilots, got airlines into the financial trouble that killed/crippled them. But I can't really be bothered getting into a pi$$ing contest with someone who, if not my esteemed CEO in person, is someone acting as his mouthpiece. We all know who I'm talking about.
Did no-one tell you that your brand of IR went out, as unsustainable, with the Dickension era?
By the way, and lastly, €340,000 for the water for one year is 0.15% of the 2004 profit of €226m (as an accountant, you probably know that anyway). A case of penny sensible and pound foolish?
Joe le Taxi:
Ban Ozi, I think not? This is the kind of censorship that he would love within FR. No need to lower to that level. Anyway, his twitterings are amusing.
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Dear Miss Turret,
A great piece of union bashing. I don’t work for your company, but I do share your work place in the European sky, so I will make a comment or two. Know of any companies that went T/U because of a Union? I know of none. I do however know lots that are now has -beens because of arrogant and greedy managers. What “hidden union agenda”? Your company was modeled after WN, or South West Airlines. You might want to take a better look, as they are one of the most successful airlines on the planet, and guess what they are the MOST UNIONIZED ONE, in the U.S. aviation market place. Funny huh? Their pilots are well paid, may be one of the best paid 737 drivers in America, and guess what they use a SENIORITY based system. The premise of treating your employees like people is what makes a winning team, you’ll find that out sooner or later. Good work REPA !!!!!! WE behind the old iron curtain are far away from all this, but it sounds all too familiar, we do stand in solidarity, at least some of us!!!!!!!
Bratko
A great piece of union bashing. I don’t work for your company, but I do share your work place in the European sky, so I will make a comment or two. Know of any companies that went T/U because of a Union? I know of none. I do however know lots that are now has -beens because of arrogant and greedy managers. What “hidden union agenda”? Your company was modeled after WN, or South West Airlines. You might want to take a better look, as they are one of the most successful airlines on the planet, and guess what they are the MOST UNIONIZED ONE, in the U.S. aviation market place. Funny huh? Their pilots are well paid, may be one of the best paid 737 drivers in America, and guess what they use a SENIORITY based system. The premise of treating your employees like people is what makes a winning team, you’ll find that out sooner or later. Good work REPA !!!!!! WE behind the old iron curtain are far away from all this, but it sounds all too familiar, we do stand in solidarity, at least some of us!!!!!!!
Bratko
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In modern times I was of the opinion that the best way unions could enhance the lot of their members was to ensure the continuing and most profitable future of their employers. Employees do not want to spend a life changing horses unnecessarily, but would like a steady FAIR career. Unions in a public quoted company have no interest in their members committing financial suicide, and will not aid nor abet it.
Management should have the same goal, but as often seen, their aim is short-term self gain with little long-term responsibility to their charge of care. It should not be thus, but history bears it out.
Now Ms Turret, which of these 2 parties has the best interest of the airline at heart? The one who wishes to operate on the principle of:
1. a fair days works for a fair days age,
2. mutual respect
3. solid team working towards the same goal
or the one who operates on the principle of:
1. unilateral decision making including change of T's & C's
2. disrespect & indeed loathing of employees who are not simple minded 'yes' men
3. no care about morale, and encouragment of career minded employees. If you leave there are more where you came from.
4. demands/expects total loyalty & flexibility at whatever personal cost.
Why is it that neraly every airline management operates completely outside the CRM box which it insists its flight crew work within? Those that do the former are in the vast majority and use management techniques that are medieval and were disgraced decades ago. Somewhere there is a special airline management college, hidden so deep, that it has remained untouched by the modern industrial world.
Unions were formed to provide a balance/opposition to such mamagement methods. The lack of discussion and mutual respect caused the destructive "them & us' attitude of a few decades ago. Mistrust etc.
I know of 1 airline where this was the case and it was losing money. Unhappy workforce, which was unionised, was uncooperative and unproductive. In came a caring but strict business minded management. they formed a team with the employees & union and established that they were all a team focused on the same goal. T's & C's improved and they turned round into a profit. Shock horror.
Sadly with the new breed of macho managers associated with LCC's. especially, as long as they make a profit there is no reason to change. The bottom line will make the rules. Damn shame.
Management should have the same goal, but as often seen, their aim is short-term self gain with little long-term responsibility to their charge of care. It should not be thus, but history bears it out.
Now Ms Turret, which of these 2 parties has the best interest of the airline at heart? The one who wishes to operate on the principle of:
1. a fair days works for a fair days age,
2. mutual respect
3. solid team working towards the same goal
or the one who operates on the principle of:
1. unilateral decision making including change of T's & C's
2. disrespect & indeed loathing of employees who are not simple minded 'yes' men
3. no care about morale, and encouragment of career minded employees. If you leave there are more where you came from.
4. demands/expects total loyalty & flexibility at whatever personal cost.
Why is it that neraly every airline management operates completely outside the CRM box which it insists its flight crew work within? Those that do the former are in the vast majority and use management techniques that are medieval and were disgraced decades ago. Somewhere there is a special airline management college, hidden so deep, that it has remained untouched by the modern industrial world.
Unions were formed to provide a balance/opposition to such mamagement methods. The lack of discussion and mutual respect caused the destructive "them & us' attitude of a few decades ago. Mistrust etc.
I know of 1 airline where this was the case and it was losing money. Unhappy workforce, which was unionised, was uncooperative and unproductive. In came a caring but strict business minded management. they formed a team with the employees & union and established that they were all a team focused on the same goal. T's & C's improved and they turned round into a profit. Shock horror.
Sadly with the new breed of macho managers associated with LCC's. especially, as long as they make a profit there is no reason to change. The bottom line will make the rules. Damn shame.
Last edited by RAT 5; 9th Jan 2005 at 10:40.
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nosey,don't you know that ryanair never apologises.
in aligning pilots with terrorists,we may have in ms.turret one and the same persons who delivered the recent ryanair memo advocating joining the taliban.
i think ryanair are the leaders in financial terrorism.screwing everybody for the last buck.
in aligning pilots with terrorists,we may have in ms.turret one and the same persons who delivered the recent ryanair memo advocating joining the taliban.
i think ryanair are the leaders in financial terrorism.screwing everybody for the last buck.
