Staff Travel for bmi retirees
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When Company B buys Company A, Company B thereby accepts responsibility for the pension scheme of Company A.
Apparently, the above somehow doesn't apply when Company BA buys another Company.
Apparently, the above somehow doesn't apply when Company BA buys another Company.
Uncle Pete
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jhr187,
I think you'll find that IAG has bought bmi, minus of course the pension fund and bmiRegional and all perfectly legally?? They got stuck with bmiBaby which ceases operation in September
Apologies to those who are regulars for repeating the recent events but our friend here looks a bit new and perhaps is still finding his way around pprune.
I think you'll find that IAG has bought bmi, minus of course the pension fund and bmiRegional and all perfectly legally?? They got stuck with bmiBaby which ceases operation in September
Apologies to those who are regulars for repeating the recent events but our friend here looks a bit new and perhaps is still finding his way around pprune.
Last edited by MaximumPete; 15th Jul 2012 at 16:03.
Uncle Pete
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Lufthansa refused to enter a legal binding agreement to continue to fund the bmi Pension Scheme.
Lufthansa put the Pension Scheme into a shell company with a single German director and funds of £1
Lufthansa made the shell company insolvent, forcing the scheme into the assessment period with the PPF
Enough said on that one or I'll get banned from this site!
Lufthansa put the Pension Scheme into a shell company with a single German director and funds of £1
Lufthansa made the shell company insolvent, forcing the scheme into the assessment period with the PPF
Enough said on that one or I'll get banned from this site!
Last edited by MaximumPete; 16th Jul 2012 at 22:28.
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Pete
Ignoring the rather assumptive and rude 'look he's only a newbie' comment, it doesn't make my one sentence contribution to this topic any less relevant.
I fully empathise with the people who are losing something with this deal, be it majorly with Baby, or minorly - staff travel perks for retired staff. Let us not forget that, although maybe not to be praised in their handling of the deal, IAG were not the ones who steered the BMI fiscal situation to where it was.
Frankly, and without meaning to be personal, I would have thought that the lack of travel perks for retired staff, once their previous employer has been sold to a new company, is way at the bottom of the list of things to bemoan.
Ignoring the rather assumptive and rude 'look he's only a newbie' comment, it doesn't make my one sentence contribution to this topic any less relevant.
I fully empathise with the people who are losing something with this deal, be it majorly with Baby, or minorly - staff travel perks for retired staff. Let us not forget that, although maybe not to be praised in their handling of the deal, IAG were not the ones who steered the BMI fiscal situation to where it was.
Frankly, and without meaning to be personal, I would have thought that the lack of travel perks for retired staff, once their previous employer has been sold to a new company, is way at the bottom of the list of things to bemoan.
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As newly retired BA flight crew myself, I'm very sorry for the BMI pension state of affairs, but utterly ashamed and disgusted that all staff in BMI, including retirees have not been given full staff travel rights with BA . I would like to have seen them given full recognition for years of service, comparable concessions and full staff travel rights within BA.
Rumour has it that a few commuting cabin crew were at the root of it; I can well believe it. Whereas most flight crew I know if caught commuting bought the occasional full fare ticket...I watched cabin crew go sick with the same self centred lack of principle that I saw them attempting to dictate to me as Captain, and then watch the BASSA have flights cancelled to protect their members. On behalf of all the good folk in BA, I apologise for those in the BA community who have so stuffed them over staff travel.
If anything, the standards of BMI flight crew are higher than BA, and I welcome their addition to strengthen BA and aplogise for their shoody treatment for which I and many are heartily ashamed.
Rumour has it that a few commuting cabin crew were at the root of it; I can well believe it. Whereas most flight crew I know if caught commuting bought the occasional full fare ticket...I watched cabin crew go sick with the same self centred lack of principle that I saw them attempting to dictate to me as Captain, and then watch the BASSA have flights cancelled to protect their members. On behalf of all the good folk in BA, I apologise for those in the BA community who have so stuffed them over staff travel.
If anything, the standards of BMI flight crew are higher than BA, and I welcome their addition to strengthen BA and aplogise for their shoody treatment for which I and many are heartily ashamed.
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Just a very simple Management issue that has not been addressed correctly. The very reason Unions became established. At the start of my career I held the view that if Management was really good, there would be no need for a Union. The extremely poor management & lack of professional management skill has led to the simple issue under discussion here. Bmi pilots are being "absorbed" and should ease into all benefits on a pro rata basis. Not easy to solve all of the issues but isn't that what we expect from the "Management Team" ?
Staff Travel is a concession & one which can be reviewed and/or removed at any time. Pilots with long service develop an expectation. That expectation should be reviewed and understood by management.
Colleague & dear friend of mine just (forced) into early retirement by GulfAir after 17 years service was dismayed when he lost ALL staff travel entitlement. Cost cutting meant that new rules came into force recognising only, at least 20 years service. The benefit would last for only half of the time served. This from a Company still trading but, clearly, under difficult conditions. My mate made a big noise to everyone he could think of who MIGHT listen. His Staff Travel letter stated "in recognition of your long service" and went on to list the benefits. Someone did listen & to the company's credit, reviewed and re-instated all with 15 years minimum unbroken service. Small concession but a thinking Management.
The wider problem is that as a profession, this is one of the few where after long service, should your employer go bust or get involved in ghastly take-overs, you go to the bottom of the pile & have to start over. Senior Captain one day, junior First Officer the next.
I am just coming up for the infamous swan song & am, quite frankly, glad to be out of it. No, want nothing to do with staff travel or indeed even to look at an airport again. Moving in to a nice Villa in the Med & looking forward to joining the Cruise Liner brigade for the odd getaway. Sub-load,security, miserable, envious ground staff..............bye.
Staff Travel is a concession & one which can be reviewed and/or removed at any time. Pilots with long service develop an expectation. That expectation should be reviewed and understood by management.
Colleague & dear friend of mine just (forced) into early retirement by GulfAir after 17 years service was dismayed when he lost ALL staff travel entitlement. Cost cutting meant that new rules came into force recognising only, at least 20 years service. The benefit would last for only half of the time served. This from a Company still trading but, clearly, under difficult conditions. My mate made a big noise to everyone he could think of who MIGHT listen. His Staff Travel letter stated "in recognition of your long service" and went on to list the benefits. Someone did listen & to the company's credit, reviewed and re-instated all with 15 years minimum unbroken service. Small concession but a thinking Management.
The wider problem is that as a profession, this is one of the few where after long service, should your employer go bust or get involved in ghastly take-overs, you go to the bottom of the pile & have to start over. Senior Captain one day, junior First Officer the next.
I am just coming up for the infamous swan song & am, quite frankly, glad to be out of it. No, want nothing to do with staff travel or indeed even to look at an airport again. Moving in to a nice Villa in the Med & looking forward to joining the Cruise Liner brigade for the odd getaway. Sub-load,security, miserable, envious ground staff..............bye.
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IAG were not the ones who steered the BMI fiscal situation to where it was.
Lets try again, just for the pedants:
When Company IA buys Company G, Company IA thereby accepts responsibility for the pension scheme of Company G.
Apparently, the above somehow doesn't apply when Company IAG buys another Company.
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Erwin,
sadly your understanding of business is not all that it might be. The simplistic and somewhat naive model that you seem to believe in is not in any way accurate.
The sale of BMI was conditional on several things, one of which was that IAG would not take on the pension liability for the BMI group and that Lufty would keep this fiscal responsibility. If this condition had not been made BMI would not have been bought and right now they would being wound up. No-one from BMI would have jobs let alone staff travel entitlements. Think BMI baby but for the whole BMI group.
The vile behaviour of Lufty in abandoning it's responsibility to the BMI pensioners is worthy of censure, trying to somehow blame IAG for Lufty's sharp practices is hard to comprehend
sadly your understanding of business is not all that it might be. The simplistic and somewhat naive model that you seem to believe in is not in any way accurate.
The sale of BMI was conditional on several things, one of which was that IAG would not take on the pension liability for the BMI group and that Lufty would keep this fiscal responsibility. If this condition had not been made BMI would not have been bought and right now they would being wound up. No-one from BMI would have jobs let alone staff travel entitlements. Think BMI baby but for the whole BMI group.
The vile behaviour of Lufty in abandoning it's responsibility to the BMI pensioners is worthy of censure, trying to somehow blame IAG for Lufty's sharp practices is hard to comprehend
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 16th Jul 2012 at 10:32.
Uncle Pete
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JT
There must have been some collusion for this to take place.
If studi is to be half believed, personally I reckon he's just a wind-up merchant, Lufthansa would not have dreamed this one up.
Right until the bitter end memos were coming thick and fast from Management saying the Pension Scheme would be safe-guarded, ring-fenced or whatever you prefer to call it, we were going to be safe.
There must have been some collusion for this to take place.
If studi is to be half believed, personally I reckon he's just a wind-up merchant, Lufthansa would not have dreamed this one up.
Right until the bitter end memos were coming thick and fast from Management saying the Pension Scheme would be safe-guarded, ring-fenced or whatever you prefer to call it, we were going to be safe.
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The bmi pension debacle should worry everyone with a pension in the UK, not just those at bmi. If a solvent company can walk away from it's responsibilities as easily as DLH have done, then no-one's pension is safe.
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Hi MP. I do not see evidence of collusion. I do see clear evidence of a cunning plan but no evidence that the cunning plan was shared between the parties. It seems IAG has fulfilled it's side of the deal just that Lufty has wriggled out of its moral and probably legal obligations.
Studi can probably fill us in on the details of how his ethically driven band of brothers will soon force Lufty to do the right thing.
Studi can probably fill us in on the details of how his ethically driven band of brothers will soon force Lufty to do the right thing.
Uncle Pete
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Say again s l o w ly
Yeah, that's exactly the point that Parliament needs to address.
This head in sand, we're alright jack that has prevailed for many years must cease and you can bet your life the politicians have got their pensions stitched up, courtesy of you and me.
We were not allowed to put in more than 15% of our gross pay into our pension fund, that was the law. Companies took pension "hollidays". The rest is history.
It may be too late to help us but remember you could be next if your company becomes the target of a tackeover bid
Yeah, that's exactly the point that Parliament needs to address.
This head in sand, we're alright jack that has prevailed for many years must cease and you can bet your life the politicians have got their pensions stitched up, courtesy of you and me.
We were not allowed to put in more than 15% of our gross pay into our pension fund, that was the law. Companies took pension "hollidays". The rest is history.
It may be too late to help us but remember you could be next if your company becomes the target of a tackeover bid
Last edited by MaximumPete; 16th Jul 2012 at 15:36.
Uncle Pete
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JT
Collusion is probably the wrong word. I meant to suggest that IAG had intimate knowledge about how the Pension Scheme would be made to disappear from the deal.
If you're shelling out £200+million you'll want to know what the crack is!
Collusion is probably the wrong word. I meant to suggest that IAG had intimate knowledge about how the Pension Scheme would be made to disappear from the deal.
If you're shelling out £200+million you'll want to know what the crack is!
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I guess we'll just have to disagreeing this one. I am sure all IAG were interested in regarding the pension deal is that they would not be responsible for the debt and that the pension obligation would be born by Lufty. As to Lufty's reprehensible actions why would IAG care? Essentially having secured the deal it was beyond their remit to worry about how Lufty intended to discharge their responsibilities
Uncle Pete
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I go back to the comment I made at the end of my opening post:-
"They don't mind, we don't matter"
And that my friends is what life is all about
"They don't mind, we don't matter"
And that my friends is what life is all about
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If a solvent company can walk away from it's responsibilities as easily as DLH have done...