EZY Captain v VAA F/O
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Yeah think that was the 3.6% tolerance bit I mentioned. Did my maths on the back of an envelope but was just trying to highlight a significant difference which only gets worse the older you are.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Kempus I was just pointing out the annual increment would be £800 different incase this wasn't general knowledge. I hadn't looked at the affect of this over a career. The new pp34 isn't negotiable. At the moment the only option to us is to vote for Bmi integration and accept the above or vote no an face the possibility of a jetstar/Iberia express at LHR. ( enough of that as I don't want to hijack the thread)
Sorry to those I may have offended by mentioning BA as an option but as Ron is in the hold pool and VA isn't the safest option at present I don't think it's totally off topic and is worth considering.
And enough of the Nigel bashing ;-)
Sorry to those I may have offended by mentioning BA as an option but as Ron is in the hold pool and VA isn't the safest option at present I don't think it's totally off topic and is worth considering.
And enough of the Nigel bashing ;-)
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Obviously the money is a lot better staying where I am, but with over 30 years 'theoretically' left flying should that be priority number 1!?!?
In view of this, I would certainly not move to a long haul only carrier. As already mentioned, people will most likely shift from long haul to short haul vacations especially when fuel prices and taxes go up.
I have never done long haul, but feedback from friends who have done it would strongly suggest that it potentially shortens one's life span. Short haul on EZY for many years really isn't that bad, I've done it for almost nine now and the ACARS makes life much easier. Working out of a more northern base like MAN would give you the chance to do 'pretend' long haul flying to places like Sharm and Paphos. Sure, there's long 4 sector days, but we also get 2 & 3 sector days as well as SBY's. The fixed roster allows me to plan my life well ahead (I could work out if I am on a day off on the 24th of Dec 2020!) And the crew food really ain't that bad! One of my few complaints is the lack of staff travel on IATA airlines. That's certainly an advantage of working for airlines like BA or EK, especially considering the premium class privileges. If you could get your partner to work for BA, then you really have the full package!
I have never done long haul, but feedback from friends who have done it would strongly suggest that it potentially shortens one's life span.
Mind you the new EASA rules may well change all that - for the worse.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Compare that to the stability of a 5/4 roster, always home at the end of a working day, earlies nicely separated from lates, etc.
It's not as black and white as that. At EZY LGW you would have at least one transition on day 5 of earliers per month meaning you would finish at 23.30 and not midday.
One a month for 12 months? That's 6 more days at work in the company's time that you're not reimbursed for financially and you do not get that rest back in another block. By 1300 on that 5th day you should be at home resting, not starting! Period.
And regarding the 5th day of lates - I ask you; is it really 4 days off after lates. You're not even home by midnight and then on your 4th 'day off' you have to be up by 0430 the following day to start day 1 of earlies thereby rendering that final half-day as, by and large, useless..!
FLR - I agree, what is it about the pressurisation of EZY's 319's. My ears were always popping in the climb and descent. I think we had the cabin up at 8700 in the cruise did we not.
On the 330 I'm now on we have it at 6400 ish and I've yet to pop..! Beautifully comfortable: ok:
Technicalities dear Craggenmore, the kind of which I'm sure my colleagues at other (legacy) airlines have to endure once in a while. At least we do not transition to earlies.
At the moment I'm following a nice discussion at the worlds oldest airline regarding age discrimination and pilots who 'dare' to fly beyond their 56th birthday. So much emotion, so much hatred for their own colleagues, my goodness. I thought those guys were the happiest people on the planet flying for the best of the best...
Actually I understand perfectly well what they are going through, it just shows that everything is relative and that the grass is never really much greener.
At the moment I'm following a nice discussion at the worlds oldest airline regarding age discrimination and pilots who 'dare' to fly beyond their 56th birthday. So much emotion, so much hatred for their own colleagues, my goodness. I thought those guys were the happiest people on the planet flying for the best of the best...
Actually I understand perfectly well what they are going through, it just shows that everything is relative and that the grass is never really much greener.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Drying and Dying.
FL430 in the "large" corporate jet I fly (occasionally) has Cabin Altitude of +/- 3500 feet.
Crew food is good too.
Not being flippant, I used to fly A320,330 and 340. I always felt "dry as a bone" by the end of a long day and regularly had ear pops. Especially on the A320.
Flying is bad for you whatever. Try to do as little as possible is my aim.
Crew food is good too.
Not being flippant, I used to fly A320,330 and 340. I always felt "dry as a bone" by the end of a long day and regularly had ear pops. Especially on the A320.
Flying is bad for you whatever. Try to do as little as possible is my aim.
Last edited by Narrow Runway; 29th Jan 2012 at 11:59.
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Comanche
And how many Millisieverts of Cosmic Radiation do I get in my 250 hours flying a year compared to 750 or 900 hours airline flying? Especially as we don't go anywhere near Polar regions.
Last time I checked, there wasn't much.
But thanks for your misguided concern. Appreciated.
Anyhow, let's get back to the real debate. And it isn't the one about cabin altitude.
Last time I checked, there wasn't much.
But thanks for your misguided concern. Appreciated.
Anyhow, let's get back to the real debate. And it isn't the one about cabin altitude.
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I always felt "dry as a bone" by the end of a long day and regularly had ear pops. Especially on the A320.
As for the 60 million Dollar question, EZY command v.s. long haul F/O, it all comes down to how you are situated in life.
*) Marriage problems: happen both in short haul and long haul. If someone can not keep their
inside their pants on a nightstop, then something is usually something fundamentally wrong in the marriage, or the person in question has very limited personal responsibility, again a fundamental issue which has little to do with long haul or short haul.*) Money: sure, money makes the world go round and it's important to get a proper compensation for the work and responsibilities involved. However, that said, again I see a lot of very irresponsible pilots around. People who squander enormous amounts of money on cars, gadgets, clothes, houses, vacations etc without paying off their student debt. These people are and will be permanently caught in a rat race where a promotion (capt) will only lead to more spending. It's these kind of 'command and/or type rating chasers' that usually recommend you to follow the money (short haul upgrade) instead of working for a decent outfit doing a job you enjoy despite having less money at the end of the month. I never forget the time with EZY and comparing my roster to the person left of me. I "only" had 20-30 sectors that month and the captain I was flying with me was suggesting that 'that's bad, because you don't make a lot of money.' The look on his face was priceless when I told him that I couldn't care less about the money and preferred to live healthy, but hey, this guy had an expensive car, an ex-wife (see point number 1 about marriage!) and a very expensive lifestyle to pay for so he needed all those sectors. Talking about being a slave to debt...
*) Job satisfaction: for lot's of people being a captain is the ultimate in job satisfaction, or so they think being an F/O's. Some people love those 4 sector days of up-and-down's. For others it's those long straight and level sectors, the long haul life of actually seeing something of this planet we live on instead of just tarmacs and the road to/from work.
It's all personal, don't let 'the four stripes' or the 'wide body jet rating' be instrumental in making the decision.
Life is more than just hard work, and if you think you will enjoy long haul, if you can be reasonably sure that the wife won't end up in bed with the tennis teacher or yourself in bed with some trolley dolly, if you are responsible with money and you don't need the extra cash 4 stripes bring you, if you're sick and tired (literally!) from flogging a 737 or 319 throughout Europe, if you are willing to take the risk of switching jobs in economic uncertain times, and last but not least, if you can join a stable career oriented airline which offers both long haul and also short haul then I would definitely consider it.
As for myself, when I left EZY, I never had to think long or hard whether or not to take the job offer for the company I now work for. I don't live to work, I work to live and in EZY I found that I was not living my life the way I wanted. In EZY I was having serious health problems with those continuous 'early-to-late' duties with only a few days in between which were only enough to rest, never enough to really fully recover. I felt that I was ageing twice as fast in EZY and despite some jet lag, my life, health and social life have improved by 100% after leaving that Orange bullsh!t behind. I felt like a zombie in EZY, always behind the powercurve for as far as fatigue was concerned. Five long 10-11 duty hours EZY earlies with barely enough time to drive home, get a proper (not crew!) meal at home and sleep, and I was a complete wreck. Social life: nearly non-existent. Same for the short haul lates.
In my current long haul job I'm also occasionally tired, however I'm not wrecked from squeezing out 4 short haul sectors on pure adrenaline after a bad night's sleep. There's a big difference between being tired or being wrecked! I'm 'just' tired after a long (night) flight and usually I have a couple of days off to fully recharge the battery. My sleep pattern has improved (despite long haul!), I have more energy, I do more sports, meet more people and I'm rarely ill.
As for job security: there is none! Nowhere! Sure, perhaps if the whole world economy implodes then the EZY and RYR pilots will still have a "job" but don't ask how much they will be making in real terms (net pay minus their liabilities), or under what conditions. Personally, I'm pretty sure I'd rather be unemployed, live off my savings or venture into a completely different career instead of working for a low cost airline in such a scenario.
That said, timing is everything, and in today's economic reality I would definitely wait a bit until things stabilize before switching companies.
p.s. be careful judging the merit of the recommendations you read here because with a few exceptions, most people recommending the EZY 4 stripes probably never have flown long haul. When I left EZY, lot's of FO's and young freshly upgraded captains (mind you, all these people only had short haul experience!) were trying to convince me to stay in EZY and go for my command with all kinds of horror stories they had heard about long haul flying. Most simply had (and still have!) no clue what they are talking about, and the ones that did have a clue (ex-BA B747 pilots who joined EZY after retirement) all actually recommended making the move.
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Marriage problems: happen both in short haul and long haul. If someone can not keep their inside their pants on a nightstop, then something is usually something fundamentally wrong in the marriage, or the person in question has very limited personal responsibility, again a fundamental issue which has little to do with long haul or short haul.
inside their pants on a nightstop, then something is usually something fundamentally wrong in the marriage, or the person in question has very limited personal responsibility, again a fundamental issue which has little to do with long haul or short haul.
Dude enough with your long haul advertising campaign already. We get it, you love your new job.
This thread is about the move to VAA, which in my opinion would be wrong because I don't see how in these days and age (internet, hotel websites, cheap flights etc..) a charter company can ever make money and expand again.
So to be at the bottom of the seniority list of a difficult (from the career point of view, considering the jobs available on the market) airplane doesn't make sense if you are employed by one of the biggest and most profitable company in Europe.
We need to respect what we have, especially in the times we are going through.
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Dude enough with your long haul advertising campaign already. We get it, you love your new job.
As for VAA, I definitely would recommend against joining VAA, period. They have a nasty reputation of 'not standing by their staff' in times of turmoil, instead firing them at the first sign of trouble. But yes, there is life beyond low cost short haul...
No simple answer here as it's always going to be a personal choice. Virgin is a deeply unhappy company at the moment and there is no sign things will improve. Quite the opposite in fact. The company will try and use every trick in the book to adopt a new scheduling agreement that will doubtless see pilots working harder under the false promise of improved bid satisfaction if the pilots are dumb enough to vote for it.
Is it all bad? Well no actually. But the odd good trip still to be had doesn't pay the mortgage, won't compensate for a possible 15 year wait for command and the inherent lack of job security in a company that does not value it's pilots.
Is it all bad? Well no actually. But the odd good trip still to be had doesn't pay the mortgage, won't compensate for a possible 15 year wait for command and the inherent lack of job security in a company that does not value it's pilots.
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What exactly was the terms of those made redundant last time round?
I have heard a multitude of different stories, ranging from full redundancy (compulsory), some offered re-employment but having to re-attend selection (!), through to temporary sabbaticals.
What exactly did happen? Did you get a choice?
I have heard a multitude of different stories, ranging from full redundancy (compulsory), some offered re-employment but having to re-attend selection (!), through to temporary sabbaticals.
What exactly did happen? Did you get a choice?
