Easy Jet Lisbon
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Where the boss is
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah yeah yeah...
Try to fly for a private guy who just doesn't follow ANY roster and gives you a poorer life than ever by letting you spend your time in a hotel somewhere with your family away from you. Then even the lifestyle roster will be cool.
It's just a matter of stop complaining all the time.
Now enjoy the orange Bus, try to KEEP our conditions and better them. If you really wanna fry yourself somewhere in the midst of a ****ty place, then you are more than ever pleased to do it and you will (maybe) write me again some time about "how to join EZ"!!!
Cheers
Try to fly for a private guy who just doesn't follow ANY roster and gives you a poorer life than ever by letting you spend your time in a hotel somewhere with your family away from you. Then even the lifestyle roster will be cool.
It's just a matter of stop complaining all the time.
Now enjoy the orange Bus, try to KEEP our conditions and better them. If you really wanna fry yourself somewhere in the midst of a ****ty place, then you are more than ever pleased to do it and you will (maybe) write me again some time about "how to join EZ"!!!
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not saying that this is what would be implemented in Lisbon, but it may be as Easyjet already own and use the software.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not UK
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lear.
I've done my share of VIP flying and largely enjoyed it. There are plenty of guys in corporate /VIP who wouldn't dream of doing anything else (some who crossed over from airlines).
Your location states "where the boss is". Is that always a shxxxy hole, or does it also include spells in, say, Nice in the summer? I've seen plenty of Lears there.
Every job has ups and downs. You can't blame people for trying to get more of the former, and less of the latter.
If your not happy with your current position, go somewhere else.
I've done my share of VIP flying and largely enjoyed it. There are plenty of guys in corporate /VIP who wouldn't dream of doing anything else (some who crossed over from airlines).
Your location states "where the boss is". Is that always a shxxxy hole, or does it also include spells in, say, Nice in the summer? I've seen plenty of Lears there.
Every job has ups and downs. You can't blame people for trying to get more of the former, and less of the latter.
If your not happy with your current position, go somewhere else.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real selling point of Lisbon is not the Lisbon contract. It gives external captains a realistic chance of a way into easyJet if they can tolerate the dire contract for 2 years. There are no guarantees, but once you have done your time you should be able to work within easyJet on the bigger money deals in just about every other base, subject to vacancies. I cannot imagine any other reason for taking it. I would be going for a China contract job first otherwise.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think AdM is probably correct on that one. Unless you blot your copybook, i imagine that it's likely you'll become a permanent employee.
I personally believe this is the new way of easyJet supplementing required Captain numbers. And lowering costs for a rolling 2 years.
All part of the bigger picture.
I personally believe this is the new way of easyJet supplementing required Captain numbers. And lowering costs for a rolling 2 years.
All part of the bigger picture.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LocBlew - That is indeed the problem, as there are no guarantees. What you can guarantee, however, is that there is absolutely no other way into easyJet as a Captain except taking a chance on the Lisbon contract. I recognise it is far from ideal, but in all honesty we are not really in the business of making things ideal for external Captains taking jobs from our own First Officers. It would be difficult to overstate to an external candidate the angst that this deal has generated internally within the Company. Many people are rightly hopping mad at the handling of this whole situation, and it has been very damaging to pilot-management relations at a time when we least needed it. We have numerous well-qualified and competent First Officers waiting for Command Courses, and it is difficult to think of any credible justification for Direct Entry Captains. You will appreciate this is not a personal thing against individuals outside, but simply a desire to look after our own employees' interests. Nonetheless, there are still many positive aspects at working for easyJet, and I cannot blame anyone on the outside, working for the numerous smaller and unscrupulous A320 operators out there, wanting to join us instead. Compared to virtually any of those Companies, easyJet is a substantially better place to work.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Not home
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A de M.
Thank you for a refreshingly candid and honest response.
If that attitude is reflected universally in Ezy it will simply make people want to join even more.
Thank you for a refreshingly candid and honest response.
If that attitude is reflected universally in Ezy it will simply make people want to join even more.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alexander de Meerkat,
I understand the interest of Pilots not flying in Western Europe to give up a few thousands of Euros for two years, in exchange for lifestyle and the chance of getting a permanent contract with one of the best non-flag carriers to work for in Europe. I suppose that's the profile EZY was looking for. Not local Pilots flying locally, like some people here suggested... That would simply not happen under these terms and conditions.
I can only imagine what is going through the minds of easyJet's SFOs. There aren't many other things that feel more unfair than changing the rules of the game like this. For no good reason.
If easyJet was desperate for experienced FOs, we could all understand this. But having a decent poll of FOs waiting to start their Command courses, this feels like a new direction the company is taking. And that is most worrying.
It is a shame that, apparently, there were no actions taken by Pilots and their Unions to stop this. The fact that so many Unions in so many different countries represent easyJet's Pilots, along with this being a base in a new country - where the local Union is still out of the equation - was the perfect setup for this kind of Management decision.
To be honest, I expected a firmer position from the Unions but... I guess only half the company's Pilots are affected by this. Surely the weaker, younger half. And that makes a world of difference.
I understand the interest of Pilots not flying in Western Europe to give up a few thousands of Euros for two years, in exchange for lifestyle and the chance of getting a permanent contract with one of the best non-flag carriers to work for in Europe. I suppose that's the profile EZY was looking for. Not local Pilots flying locally, like some people here suggested... That would simply not happen under these terms and conditions.
I can only imagine what is going through the minds of easyJet's SFOs. There aren't many other things that feel more unfair than changing the rules of the game like this. For no good reason.
If easyJet was desperate for experienced FOs, we could all understand this. But having a decent poll of FOs waiting to start their Command courses, this feels like a new direction the company is taking. And that is most worrying.
It is a shame that, apparently, there were no actions taken by Pilots and their Unions to stop this. The fact that so many Unions in so many different countries represent easyJet's Pilots, along with this being a base in a new country - where the local Union is still out of the equation - was the perfect setup for this kind of Management decision.
To be honest, I expected a firmer position from the Unions but... I guess only half the company's Pilots are affected by this. Surely the weaker, younger half. And that makes a world of difference.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LocBlew - This is a very difficult and complex subject. EasyJet operates within many different European countries. Each one of those countries has a pilot union representing its members. The reality is that some of those unions are stronger than others, due to the existing legislation covering union activities within each one of the countries concerned. As we do not have a base in Portugal at the moment, there is no union in place to deal with contracts there. Possibly not surprising, the contract on offer there is much poorer than all the other contracts within easyJet. The reality is that no union I am aware of has the right to prevent easyJet from doing this in a country where they are not currently working.
It is easyJet's stated view that they would like local pilots as opposed to commuters. The problem with that is that people tend to work where the money is. The Lisbon contract is so much worse than all the other ones that, even if you were a Portuguese pilot, it is inevitable you would attempt to leave and work in Spain, for example. In easyJet's defence, it was a very marginal decision to start the Lisbon base in the first place, as Portugal is in an economic shambles. What they do not want is to expose themselves to the liabilities of permanent employees in Portugal when they can have contract pilots the first two years as they wait and see if the business is successful or not. As in all countries, sooner or later they will have to comply with Portuguese law and liabilities if they wish to do business there. They did not, however, need to do that initially. It is always a balance. All easyJet employees wish easyJet to be successful, but not at any price. We will just have to see how this all pans out, but my gut feeling is that in two years time the base will have been successful and permanent contracts will be given to all employees there.
It is easyJet's stated view that they would like local pilots as opposed to commuters. The problem with that is that people tend to work where the money is. The Lisbon contract is so much worse than all the other ones that, even if you were a Portuguese pilot, it is inevitable you would attempt to leave and work in Spain, for example. In easyJet's defence, it was a very marginal decision to start the Lisbon base in the first place, as Portugal is in an economic shambles. What they do not want is to expose themselves to the liabilities of permanent employees in Portugal when they can have contract pilots the first two years as they wait and see if the business is successful or not. As in all countries, sooner or later they will have to comply with Portuguese law and liabilities if they wish to do business there. They did not, however, need to do that initially. It is always a balance. All easyJet employees wish easyJet to be successful, but not at any price. We will just have to see how this all pans out, but my gut feeling is that in two years time the base will have been successful and permanent contracts will be given to all employees there.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hangar 69
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest, I expected a firmer position from the Unions but... I guess only half the company's Pilots are affected by this. Surely the weaker, younger half. And that makes a world of difference.
As long as weak (pro-)management pilots like AdM don't outright condemn this kind of behaviour, companies will get continue to get away with offering less and less, as evidenced in this topic. It get's even worse as AdM starts defending the positive aspects (seeing a lousy deal as getting a foot in the door of a fantastic career airline
) whilst backstabbing the SF/O's that he probably daily flies with or meets in the crew room who are waiting for a command. Great CRM mate, great CRM! If he was truly colleague/CRM minded he could perhaps stop undermining his colleagues and instead could perhaps recommend anyone not take this deal so that they would have to improve the package and/or give SF/O's a shot at a command, but hey, that's probably not where his loyalty lies... With pro-management colleagues like these, you don't need any more office manager/bean counter to twist the knife that is sticking out your back.
If anyone wants to find out what kind of 'fantastic career' is ahead of them, if someone wants to know what a Ryanair with an orange paint job feels like and how a company treats their present (SF/O) and future (2 year lousy contract) employees, then look no further than the offer on the table for LIS!
All the backstabbing of colleagues, naive wishful thinking (hoping you'll get a decent contract after 2 years), sucking up to management and deteriorating T&C's in this industry are perfectly summarized in this thread.
The real selling point of Lisbon is not the Lisbon contract. It gives external captains a realistic chance of a way into easyJet if they can tolerate the dire contract for 2 years.
Anyway, seriously now. For anyone considering this, ask yourself: why doesn't a career company offer a good (i.e. normal) deal now, but instead they might offer you a better deal in two years time? I thought we were talking about a real 'career company' here, not some kind of rinky dink flying club working on two year contracts?
What 'career company' treats their employees as slave contractors and leaves them in a very vulnerable position in 2014 when their contract is up for renewal and the economy hasn't magically and drastically improved? Will AdM recommend you in 2014 to accept another lousy deal for another 2 years because Project Merlin will improve everything?
Although the results of Project Merlin are not guaranteed, it seems very likely that we will have significant movement on that front next year
It's beyond me why anyone still gives this snake oil salesman any credibility after he has proven to be almost 100% wrong regarding his insights on the development of T&C's!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: World
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What AdM says makes sense to me, but it is hard to believe that a local Cpt will accept a salary reduction of 35-45%.
Life in Portugal is becoming unsustainable... with so many (high) taxes. The VAT at the moment is 23%, which makes everything extremely expensive and almost unbearable, like auto fuel prices, house renting, car prices, food, utilities, education, insurances, etc.
Everybody agrees that working for EZY is not that bad after all. I have been listening some interesting feedback from some EZY fellow Cpts.
But who's going to accept a two year contract, working for peanuts without any guarantees in relation to the future? And if Portugal abandons the euro zone or the euro currency? That's scary isn't it? Does anyone imagine that?
Life in Portugal is becoming unsustainable... with so many (high) taxes. The VAT at the moment is 23%, which makes everything extremely expensive and almost unbearable, like auto fuel prices, house renting, car prices, food, utilities, education, insurances, etc.
Everybody agrees that working for EZY is not that bad after all. I have been listening some interesting feedback from some EZY fellow Cpts.
But who's going to accept a two year contract, working for peanuts without any guarantees in relation to the future? And if Portugal abandons the euro zone or the euro currency? That's scary isn't it? Does anyone imagine that?
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: hotel
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AdM, PARC told me that it is indeed a contract with EZY direct, but LIS ONLY! Flying out of other bases may happen, but no access to transfer lists. If LIS closes you are back on the street. Terms are way below the going rates for contractors.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sarah737 - that may indeed be the case in terms of how Parc are presenting things. You have to bear in mind that we were clearly told a few month ago that there were no plans to employ our 737 contract captains after the 737 left. Lo and behold, they are now on Airbus courses and will be used to crew Lisbon. On one level, what you say is music to my ears, but I have to say that life is never that simple. As I said previously, if I had to bet on it then all the contract crew in Lisbon will be offered jobs in easyJet at the end. You may be interested to know that if you are an internal applicant (not that there are many), you are guaranteed a return to the country of your departure if it all goes wrong. EasyJet are just hedging their bets, and there is a lot of water to go under the bridge before any final decision is made. You do need to be aware, however, that the unions will rightly fight tooth and nail to prevent any contract captains being offered permanent contract as long as there are First Officers available internally to fill those vacancies.
On display here we have here the two extremes of easyJet life - myself and Doug the Head. Doug hates working for easyJet and I quite enjoy it - it is up to others to decide who is right and who is wrong. It would not be an exaggeration to say that easyJet could give Doug a Ferrari and it would be wrong colour, or a bag of gold and it would be too heavy. What can be done to help such people? Very little unfortunately, other than to do what I have done on many occasions and recommend he finds alternative employment. I am not aware of defending the Lisbon contract, but again others must decide.
It is a statement of the obvious that many pilots from outside easyJet want to joint us - possibly showing that Doug may not be totally correct in regarding easyJet as the worst airline on the planet. We can hardly blame them for that, but I am nonetheless dismayed that we did not give our own First Officers the opportunity to bid for the Command slots in Lisbon, rather than take external candidates. That is an internal issue for us to deal with - once the Project Merlin saga is over, we must go into attack mode to deal with that.
Overall, however, in my judgement we are in a good company with a bright future. You must decide whether to take Doug's view or mine - the bare fact is that if you do not want to join us then there is no shortage of external applicants who do.
On display here we have here the two extremes of easyJet life - myself and Doug the Head. Doug hates working for easyJet and I quite enjoy it - it is up to others to decide who is right and who is wrong. It would not be an exaggeration to say that easyJet could give Doug a Ferrari and it would be wrong colour, or a bag of gold and it would be too heavy. What can be done to help such people? Very little unfortunately, other than to do what I have done on many occasions and recommend he finds alternative employment. I am not aware of defending the Lisbon contract, but again others must decide.
It is a statement of the obvious that many pilots from outside easyJet want to joint us - possibly showing that Doug may not be totally correct in regarding easyJet as the worst airline on the planet. We can hardly blame them for that, but I am nonetheless dismayed that we did not give our own First Officers the opportunity to bid for the Command slots in Lisbon, rather than take external candidates. That is an internal issue for us to deal with - once the Project Merlin saga is over, we must go into attack mode to deal with that.
Overall, however, in my judgement we are in a good company with a bright future. You must decide whether to take Doug's view or mine - the bare fact is that if you do not want to join us then there is no shortage of external applicants who do.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: u.k
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You do need to be aware, however, that the unions will rightly fight tooth and nail to prevent any contract captains being offered permanent contract as long as there are First Officers available internally to fill those vacancies
You mean just like the CC have 'fought tooth and nail' to prevent the contract CP's in LIS, In reality after 2 yrs the CC will roll over & agree to letting them move internally.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not UK
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quoteBut who's going to accept a two year contract][/quote]
I wonder how many of the people who attend the selection are unemployed?
Poor pay is better than no pay!
Orange coloured 'ivory castles' come to mind.
I wonder how many of the people who attend the selection are unemployed?
Poor pay is better than no pay!
Orange coloured 'ivory castles' come to mind.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Does anyone have a few more details about the situation in Lisbon ?
Is the contract as bas as expected ? I heard that more aircrafts were to be based there after the Madrid closure and i wanted to know how it was ? Is it better than a flexicrew contract ?
Thanks
Does anyone have a few more details about the situation in Lisbon ?
Is the contract as bas as expected ? I heard that more aircrafts were to be based there after the Madrid closure and i wanted to know how it was ? Is it better than a flexicrew contract ?
Thanks
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: AROUND
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I don't want any of you here sneaking in the back door! The work that are sfo's put into their command course from start to finish and then to be offered this crap!! Completely unacceptable!! Ezy pilots/ Ezy aircraft. End of.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rosco
The problem is that these are being offered as easyJet contracts: therefore your argument of easy pilots for easy aircraft doesn't stand up.
You'd better rethink your argument.
The only difference here is Direct Entry Commanders accepting lower than current rates.
If I were you, I'd take the Command in LIS before things get worse.
You'd better rethink your argument.
The only difference here is Direct Entry Commanders accepting lower than current rates.
If I were you, I'd take the Command in LIS before things get worse.