JET AIRWAYS
JET AIRWAYS
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1. Jet Airways has the most drunk pilots in India - ref Times of India, link:
57 pilots found drunk on duty in '09-10, 11 lost jobs - Times Of India
2. Jet Airways Chief Operating Officer is Mr. Hamid Ali, formerly of Gulf Air. Mr. Ali was the A320 Training Manager when a perfectly serviceable A320 (GF072) was crashed in to the sea after a missed approach. The ICAO report stated the causes as pilot error and gross deficiencies in A320 training at Gulf Air. Mr. Ali refuses to accept the cause of the accident - ref ICAO report, BBC news links:
GF072 Final Report
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Gulf Air improves offer
"Captain Hamid Ali, has previously rejected reports that pilot error was behind the crash".
3. The first revenue flight of the second 777 delivered to Jet Airways, BOM-LHR, was crewed by two Captains, neither of whom had been given a 777 simulator check nor 777 line check by Jet Airways.
Apparently, Mr. Ali has learned nothing from his previous "management" experience at Gulf Air.
4. Mr. Ali appeared on Indian TV to berate and vilify the Indian pilots during the contentious Jet Airways pilot strike. However, the Indian pilots obediently accept a Bahraini national as their superior.
5. If you have never experienced India, may I suggest you:
a. find a bucket
b. puke in it
c. defecate in it
d. unrinate in it
e. put your head in the bucket and smell
You have now experienced incredible India !!!!!!!!!
57 pilots found drunk on duty in '09-10, 11 lost jobs - Times Of India
2. Jet Airways Chief Operating Officer is Mr. Hamid Ali, formerly of Gulf Air. Mr. Ali was the A320 Training Manager when a perfectly serviceable A320 (GF072) was crashed in to the sea after a missed approach. The ICAO report stated the causes as pilot error and gross deficiencies in A320 training at Gulf Air. Mr. Ali refuses to accept the cause of the accident - ref ICAO report, BBC news links:
GF072 Final Report
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Gulf Air improves offer
"Captain Hamid Ali, has previously rejected reports that pilot error was behind the crash".
3. The first revenue flight of the second 777 delivered to Jet Airways, BOM-LHR, was crewed by two Captains, neither of whom had been given a 777 simulator check nor 777 line check by Jet Airways.
Apparently, Mr. Ali has learned nothing from his previous "management" experience at Gulf Air.
4. Mr. Ali appeared on Indian TV to berate and vilify the Indian pilots during the contentious Jet Airways pilot strike. However, the Indian pilots obediently accept a Bahraini national as their superior.
5. If you have never experienced India, may I suggest you:
a. find a bucket
b. puke in it
c. defecate in it
d. unrinate in it
e. put your head in the bucket and smell
You have now experienced incredible India !!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Tommy Tilt; 20th Aug 2011 at 16:53.
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Despite his shortcomings, Mr. Ali is such a social butterfly. He was having dinner at the Leela Hotel the other night with a couple of the expat 777 Captains who recently returned from servitude at AI and RBI.
I imagine the dinner meetings are more intimate than the sham group meetings formerly held in BRU.
Got to hand it to him, he certainly knows how to keep the local Indian pilots in line and the expats happy. He probably has Indian servants back in Bahrain too.
I imagine the dinner meetings are more intimate than the sham group meetings formerly held in BRU.
Got to hand it to him, he certainly knows how to keep the local Indian pilots in line and the expats happy. He probably has Indian servants back in Bahrain too.
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Incredible India?
If you have never experienced India, may I suggest you:
a. find a bucket
b. puke in it
c. defecate in it
d. unrinate in it
e. put your head in the bucket and smell
a. find a bucket
b. puke in it
c. defecate in it
d. unrinate in it
e. put your head in the bucket and smell
I'm sure everyone can see the jointly exhaustive relationship between that and this:
Himachal Pardesh
Spare a thought for those born here.
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Jet Airways may be the best carrier to be employed with in India.
Have not heard great things about Spice or Indian Express.
Accommodations are provided paid for by Jet in good hotels.
On full payroll when one reports for training.
Crew transport provided to and from training and the airport for flying duties.
Good Mx.
Good food allowances when on layover, also at good hotels.
Business Class, space available, to and from home during block off.
Monthly pay in the pocket net of taxes going up to $9,500 effective 1st, Oct.
Friends and Colleagues of mine on the B737 are enjoying the flying over there. But at the end of the day expat flying is not for everyone.
The south of India where the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal mix is quite nice. Lots of tourist from Europe flock there. Excellent sea food in abundance and quite safe to eat. The North in the mountains is beautiful too for hiking. The air is pure too.If one has been to and lived in India, then perhaps one has the right to make comment as one deems appropriate.
Now regarding the Indian Medical. There is some truth to the fact that the decision making process by the Indian Air Force Medical Examiners is arbitrary and capricious. However that is in the minority. The majority of the doctors are fair-minded. Yes it has been related to me that the standards of the Indian Air Force are greater than that of perhaps the FAA, or EASA. However as I understand one submits to a thorough pre-medical about two weeks before their scheduled medicals in either Bangalore or Delhi. I have not heard any objections to the premedical. Nobody complained about the lack of cleanliness of the medical facilities or the professionalism of the staff. In fact compliments have been given in Chennai, and Mumbai. I’ve been told the cost for a total fitness exam including x-ray, stress test, sonogram, blood work, and consultation averages about $75 to $100 US. Anyway I’ve heard their companies reimburse the expats for their pre-medicals and cab fare to and from the hospitals. Not a bad investment in one’s health nor profession to say the least. Some of contemporaries I know and spoken to who have been through the process, especially the older ones, were happy to learn they had correctible problems.
When you think about it most may have to submit to six medicals a year. Two from their home country (FAA)… two pre-medicals, and two Air Force Medicals. Some from Europe only need one medical a year thus only five would be required from them. After the first major initial medical, normal medicals are given for the next 2 ½ years. Then the process repeats itself again.
However, they feel that the company doctors may have dropped the ball by allowing them to proceed for the Indian Air Force for their medicals. When at the IAM facility and the doctors have questions or issues on the reports they will require additional testing to rule out any abnormalities or problems. In a way it’s a way to cover their butts.
Personally, I’ve been through the CAAC medical, and it sounds similar to the Indian Medical. At least in India the medical can be postponed if the results of the premedical are less than favorable. In China you are sent away to correct the deficiency and return for a re-examination and a hopeful pass.
Perhaps if all the airlines hired retired Indian Air Force Medical Examiners as consultants, the results could be better and the procedure less painful. But that’s just part of the game.
The Indian Air Force have only their own guidelines to abide by as they do not follow the ICAO medical standards.
Besides Ethiopian and Fly Dubai, India is offering opportunities for those in their golden years who are not ready to hang up their goggles. With that being a thorough medical examination should be taken before reporting for training.
They younger guys and gals have greater options to choose from.
Have not heard great things about Spice or Indian Express.
Accommodations are provided paid for by Jet in good hotels.
On full payroll when one reports for training.
Crew transport provided to and from training and the airport for flying duties.
Good Mx.
Good food allowances when on layover, also at good hotels.
Business Class, space available, to and from home during block off.
Monthly pay in the pocket net of taxes going up to $9,500 effective 1st, Oct.
Friends and Colleagues of mine on the B737 are enjoying the flying over there. But at the end of the day expat flying is not for everyone.
The south of India where the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal mix is quite nice. Lots of tourist from Europe flock there. Excellent sea food in abundance and quite safe to eat. The North in the mountains is beautiful too for hiking. The air is pure too.If one has been to and lived in India, then perhaps one has the right to make comment as one deems appropriate.
Now regarding the Indian Medical. There is some truth to the fact that the decision making process by the Indian Air Force Medical Examiners is arbitrary and capricious. However that is in the minority. The majority of the doctors are fair-minded. Yes it has been related to me that the standards of the Indian Air Force are greater than that of perhaps the FAA, or EASA. However as I understand one submits to a thorough pre-medical about two weeks before their scheduled medicals in either Bangalore or Delhi. I have not heard any objections to the premedical. Nobody complained about the lack of cleanliness of the medical facilities or the professionalism of the staff. In fact compliments have been given in Chennai, and Mumbai. I’ve been told the cost for a total fitness exam including x-ray, stress test, sonogram, blood work, and consultation averages about $75 to $100 US. Anyway I’ve heard their companies reimburse the expats for their pre-medicals and cab fare to and from the hospitals. Not a bad investment in one’s health nor profession to say the least. Some of contemporaries I know and spoken to who have been through the process, especially the older ones, were happy to learn they had correctible problems.
When you think about it most may have to submit to six medicals a year. Two from their home country (FAA)… two pre-medicals, and two Air Force Medicals. Some from Europe only need one medical a year thus only five would be required from them. After the first major initial medical, normal medicals are given for the next 2 ½ years. Then the process repeats itself again.
However, they feel that the company doctors may have dropped the ball by allowing them to proceed for the Indian Air Force for their medicals. When at the IAM facility and the doctors have questions or issues on the reports they will require additional testing to rule out any abnormalities or problems. In a way it’s a way to cover their butts.
Personally, I’ve been through the CAAC medical, and it sounds similar to the Indian Medical. At least in India the medical can be postponed if the results of the premedical are less than favorable. In China you are sent away to correct the deficiency and return for a re-examination and a hopeful pass.
Perhaps if all the airlines hired retired Indian Air Force Medical Examiners as consultants, the results could be better and the procedure less painful. But that’s just part of the game.
The Indian Air Force have only their own guidelines to abide by as they do not follow the ICAO medical standards.
Besides Ethiopian and Fly Dubai, India is offering opportunities for those in their golden years who are not ready to hang up their goggles. With that being a thorough medical examination should be taken before reporting for training.
They younger guys and gals have greater options to choose from.
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Captjins
...said "But at the end of the day expat flying is not for everyone.
The south of India where the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal mix is quite nice. Lots of tourist from Europe flock there.Excellent sea food in abundance and quite safe to eat. The North in the mountains is beautiful too for hiking. The air is pure too.If one has been to and lived in India, then perhaps one has the right to make comment as one deems appropriate."
Your friends just forgot to tell you that they work their butts off 6 days on ,1 day off, out of bad airports, with a terrible ATC (everybody, even the locals, use the 'say again' all the time), lots of traffic congestion, in the air and on the ground, smelly, poluted cities.
No time to enjoy any of the nice things mentioned, trust me. You just crash at the hotel, nothing really high standard by the way.
After 8 weeks away from anything that resembles your home country you're just thinking about give up (lots of resignations every month, after tasting the 'Indian adventure")
It's hard, very hard work. Go only in case you need it desperately. Or running from an evil ex wife.
Before that, consider anything at your home country.
The south of India where the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal mix is quite nice. Lots of tourist from Europe flock there.Excellent sea food in abundance and quite safe to eat. The North in the mountains is beautiful too for hiking. The air is pure too.If one has been to and lived in India, then perhaps one has the right to make comment as one deems appropriate."
Your friends just forgot to tell you that they work their butts off 6 days on ,1 day off, out of bad airports, with a terrible ATC (everybody, even the locals, use the 'say again' all the time), lots of traffic congestion, in the air and on the ground, smelly, poluted cities.
No time to enjoy any of the nice things mentioned, trust me. You just crash at the hotel, nothing really high standard by the way.
After 8 weeks away from anything that resembles your home country you're just thinking about give up (lots of resignations every month, after tasting the 'Indian adventure")
It's hard, very hard work. Go only in case you need it desperately. Or running from an evil ex wife.
Before that, consider anything at your home country.
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You are painting such a dismal picture about Jet Airways, whilst a number of guys, who have been there for the past 2 to 3 years are OK with their terms and conditions, as well as living conditions. There are two chaps I know who had bad problems with Jet and sought employment back in the UK. But other then from what I've been told, it's the best 737 gig out there for lads in the mid 50's and older.
By the way Full FWD... are your statements based on your personal experience Jet Ariways? I no.. then how did you arrive at your summation about Jet Airways? Not looking for a confrontation or anything... just curious is all. If your essay is based on your actual experiences, then you are entitled to your opinion.
Now I will say that I have colleagues at Spice and Indian Express that are very unhappy with their respective carriers.
By the way Full FWD... are your statements based on your personal experience Jet Ariways? I no.. then how did you arrive at your summation about Jet Airways? Not looking for a confrontation or anything... just curious is all. If your essay is based on your actual experiences, then you are entitled to your opinion.
Now I will say that I have colleagues at Spice and Indian Express that are very unhappy with their respective carriers.
Last edited by captjns; 18th Aug 2011 at 21:02.
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However, the Indian pilots obediently accept a Bahraini national as their superior.
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What's special about that?
Clearly you have never spent time in the Middle East.
You may wish to view the link below which deals with systematic abuse of Indian workers by Bahraini employers. You might then understand why I for one, am surprised that any Indian would accept being subordinate, in their own country, to a Bahraini, whose countrymen treat Indian nationals in such an abhorrent way. Notwithstanding, Mr. Ali's apperance on Indian TV in which he berates and vilifies the Indian pilots for strike action, in their attempt to form a union to achieve better terms and conditons for the workforce.
Indian Worker Kidnapped, Tortured and Starved by his Bahraini Sponsor
"A Bahraini sponsor is suspected of kidnapping and torturing his runaway worker, the Gulf Daily News reported last week.
The Indian worker, K. T. Najeeb, 44, ran away from his sponsor four years ago because he was not receiving salaries, and since then was doing odd jobs to make ends meet. On January 9th, the sponsor located the worker in Manama, kidnapped him and locked him up in an apartment in Hoora. For four days Najeeb was held there without any food, as he was repeatedly assaulted by several men. According to Najeeb, the sponsor demanded 2,000 Bahraini dinars ($5,300) from him for his release.
When a friend of Najeeb’s called his phone, the sponsor demanded the sum of money from him; he refused to discuss the matter with Indian embassy officials without receiving money. After torturing the worker, the sponsor brought him to the police and reported him as a runaway. In a clear act of perverted justice, Najeeb was then sent to a detention center in Asry".
Last edited by Tommy Tilt; 25th Aug 2011 at 15:53.
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Working for Jet Airways
Is there any pilots on this forum that actually work for Jet Airways?
I have been given a contract to report Sept 15 and am curious about flying for them.
I am 55 and want to finish my next 10 years with only one carrier and wonder if Jet Airways is the right one.
How is training and how long is it? I have done a pre-medical here in the USA for the DGCA so I think I will pass their's in India.
Are you getting to fly overtime each month? I am looking forward to maxing out at 1000/year to finish building my retirement account. Is this possible and practical with Jet?
I have been given a contract to report Sept 15 and am curious about flying for them.
I am 55 and want to finish my next 10 years with only one carrier and wonder if Jet Airways is the right one.
How is training and how long is it? I have done a pre-medical here in the USA for the DGCA so I think I will pass their's in India.
Are you getting to fly overtime each month? I am looking forward to maxing out at 1000/year to finish building my retirement account. Is this possible and practical with Jet?
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Under the current Validation regulations you can have four years in India. Unless it changes, Indian Pilots will not support that, you cannot stay 10 years with one carrier in India on the validation. Greetings into the Valley of the Sun.
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The PM cloak of secrecy.....
Feel free to PM me
Is there information re Jet Airways that captjns would rather other members not see?
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TT
Agreed.
That's really unfortunate.
There's nothing particularly wrong with Jet Airways. The standards are good, the airline looks to be reasonably managed.
But please read again my post above, India is another world, not necessarily in the best sense. Every western that had lived there for some time will understand what I mean. For a lot of people being several weeks away from family at such enviroment could be the route for severe depression.
Most important: everybody looking into a long term assignment in India need to think twice. The airline is kept under their knees by the local union pilots.
If and when they decide to run with the expats be sure that everyone will get a kiss goodbye, no matter what the contract says. Forget about any stability.
Back in 2007 they hired 120 B777 expat captains, on similar contracts, to crew their brand new 11 aircraft fleet. At the first coughings on 2008 recession they booted all of them and leased all but 3 acft to other operators.
With a new recession looming and keeping in mind that India economy is very dependant on US, EU and China, don't hold your breath that they will not hesitate in giving the boot to all expats, wie.
If look for more serious business and stability, look at China/Korea/Vietnam.
That's really unfortunate.
There's nothing particularly wrong with Jet Airways. The standards are good, the airline looks to be reasonably managed.
But please read again my post above, India is another world, not necessarily in the best sense. Every western that had lived there for some time will understand what I mean. For a lot of people being several weeks away from family at such enviroment could be the route for severe depression.
Most important: everybody looking into a long term assignment in India need to think twice. The airline is kept under their knees by the local union pilots.
If and when they decide to run with the expats be sure that everyone will get a kiss goodbye, no matter what the contract says. Forget about any stability.
Back in 2007 they hired 120 B777 expat captains, on similar contracts, to crew their brand new 11 aircraft fleet. At the first coughings on 2008 recession they booted all of them and leased all but 3 acft to other operators.
With a new recession looming and keeping in mind that India economy is very dependant on US, EU and China, don't hold your breath that they will not hesitate in giving the boot to all expats, wie.
If look for more serious business and stability, look at China/Korea/Vietnam.
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Fullforward... you are correct in your assessment. I've been an expat for the past 21 years in 6 of the 7 continents of the globe.
I've always looked at the fact that my next flight may very well be my last flight with that particular airline. Fortunate for me that prophecy came true only twice.
Don't be surprised... the Indian economy is not as dependent on the US or EU business as you may think.
Living away from home from the family is not the best alternative. However coming home to a house where the bills and mortgage are current is a far better alternative. There has always been an excellent support system with the expats where ever I’ve been.
There were very low incidences of depression or animosity amongst all the groups I’ve been associated, as long as the company was a stand up company to work for.
But then again, I’ve always done my homework before going to work for a carrier over seas.
I've always looked at the fact that my next flight may very well be my last flight with that particular airline. Fortunate for me that prophecy came true only twice.
Don't be surprised... the Indian economy is not as dependent on the US or EU business as you may think.
Living away from home from the family is not the best alternative. However coming home to a house where the bills and mortgage are current is a far better alternative. There has always been an excellent support system with the expats where ever I’ve been.
There were very low incidences of depression or animosity amongst all the groups I’ve been associated, as long as the company was a stand up company to work for.
But then again, I’ve always done my homework before going to work for a carrier over seas.
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Jet Air is the most proffesionaly run airline in India,and if possible try getting Bangalore Base,as the weather is conducive to expatriates.The rest of the horror stories are simply untrue
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curryfan
Lots of good things about working at Jetairways. Those who moan about it on this forum seem to have some axe to grind. As an expat flying job goes it's fine. I have heard very few complaints from the expats here. Applicants should not be put off by childish rants. Some patience is required when joining, just roll with it. Hotels are fine, aircraft well maintained, paid on time, admin does well considering the numbers they have to deal with. Everyone here knows their job and does it well. I've been an expat for 20+ years, been there, done that, etc. On my 4th boeing now. Jet is a good company and it's a good contract. I plan on renewing when the time comes.
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MANAGEMENT
...nice to know the management has being doing their homework!... spending some time at pprune.
Like everything else, it always depends on how desperate you are.
Some people are too fast on wearing the rose glasses...or plainlly naive.
Like everything else, it always depends on how desperate you are.
Some people are too fast on wearing the rose glasses...or plainlly naive.
Last edited by fullforward; 2nd Sep 2011 at 16:53.