Wizz Air
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Wizz Air
Hi all
Looking for some details regarding Wizz T&Cs for Captains based in Bucharest.
a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?
b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help
c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.
Any other info which would help reaching a decision will be appreciated
Thanks
Looking for some details regarding Wizz T&Cs for Captains based in Bucharest.
a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?
b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help
c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.
Any other info which would help reaching a decision will be appreciated
Thanks
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Bbu capt roster
Hi Bike:
I'm SFO here in BBU
Answers to your questions
a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?
Roster Stable 6-4 or 6-1-6-7 (13-7)
b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help
Average 30 sectors monthly. Short few of them, medium 40%, long all the Spanish and LTN
c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.
Bad.... my friend.... The housing price is the same and now we won't have HA. Apartment in a western mentality not less than 6oo€ and less if you want to share. The cost of living is a 20% less than Western Europe
Until the cut of the HA... the atmosphere was nice..... now....
Best Regards
I'm SFO here in BBU
Answers to your questions
a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?
Roster Stable 6-4 or 6-1-6-7 (13-7)
b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help
Average 30 sectors monthly. Short few of them, medium 40%, long all the Spanish and LTN
c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.
Bad.... my friend.... The housing price is the same and now we won't have HA. Apartment in a western mentality not less than 6oo€ and less if you want to share. The cost of living is a 20% less than Western Europe
Until the cut of the HA... the atmosphere was nice..... now....
Best Regards
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I've been told it's good only for upgrades if you need it.
Do you agree ? How long for the upgrade if still possible ?
Right now recruiting only Cpt maybe in october could change ?
Thanks for the infos.
Do you agree ? How long for the upgrade if still possible ?
Right now recruiting only Cpt maybe in october could change ?
Thanks for the infos.
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Thanks for the replies.
I guess that it needs a little bit of thinking, as far as the monthly expenses are concerned.
linza, a last question: Do you guys need a car, both for going to work but also for your personal / social living (I hope there is some
)
I guess that it needs a little bit of thinking, as far as the monthly expenses are concerned.
linza, a last question: Do you guys need a car, both for going to work but also for your personal / social living (I hope there is some
)
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To make it simple, many of BBU based pilots are busy updating their CV's, rather than describe the T&C's erosion happening these days...
The atmosphere swung in a matter of a week, most are disgusted by the loss of living allowance, which represents about 30 to 35% of an FO salary.
If you plan to spend your time off in Romania, you might get by, but if you commute, it'll start to cost a lot, having to rent 2 places, one for work, and one for you country of origin.
As for thinking of bringing the family to live here with you, forget it, it might cost you your marriage. BBU is survivable only if your family is from Romania.
The atmosphere swung in a matter of a week, most are disgusted by the loss of living allowance, which represents about 30 to 35% of an FO salary.
If you plan to spend your time off in Romania, you might get by, but if you commute, it'll start to cost a lot, having to rent 2 places, one for work, and one for you country of origin.
As for thinking of bringing the family to live here with you, forget it, it might cost you your marriage. BBU is survivable only if your family is from Romania.
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But that really counts for the whole of Wizz: in the long term it works for the local pilots and doesn't work for the expats. The management knows it and that's their strategy as well. Why hire expensive work force if you can pay less money for local people and give them the lifestyle they want - they can work from home instead of commuting. Everybody's happy.
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Understand that there is a huge pile at both BA and Ezy as well as GermanWings of Wizz drivers... Agree with the assesment that only locals will stay and expats will leave.
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Biting the hand that feeds you.
I think this will make easily identifiable by former colleagues.
I spent 2 years at Wizz until recently. I had a lot of worldwide experience of large Airbus aircraft as an FO before I joined.
Wizz Air gave me a DEC.
They left me alone and allowed me to develop as a Captain, without fear of dismissal if I made a minor error. I could uplift extra fuel and never have to explain why. I could pick up a phone and get advice if needed at any time.
I was promoted to a Base Captain role after 15 months in the company. A very difficult job, in a challenging base, which I did my best to run fairly - and professionally.
I was given the chance to perhaps enter the training department - but declined as I knew I would be leaving soon after.
Wizz Air paid me, on time and every month. They gave me a port in a storm in 2009 when Virgin Atlantic were binning me for being near the bottom of their seniority list. They gave me my Command - and I'll always be glad of that.
So, is it sh1t? Well, the money could be better - especially for FO's.
But, for BBU pilots to think they should be treated differently is not correct. I had to pay €1000 per month in Katowice for an apartment when I was based there. Do you think Warsaw or Prague is a cheaper city to live in than Bucharest? Do you think Katowice is prettier than Bucharest? Get over it. The housing allowance was divisive - no other bases got it, so why should you? I tried my hardest for my pilots in my base, via a letter to senior management, and was royally slapped down for it. I never really did expect to get them a housing allowance, because BBU pilots received €1200 a month and only spent €500 of it on rent - whilst letting it be known that was the case. Smart? Hardly.
To put €1200 a month in perspective: the Base Captains only receive €1000 a month for all the hassle they endure....
So, as an ex-pat, I took as much as I could from Wizz Air and left when I got a better offer.
2 1/2 years ago, I was an FO with no prospects in Virgin Atlantic. Redundancy loomed.
After working hard, making sacrifices and being lonely whilst away from my family, I got a far, far better job back in the UK. I even had a choice - because I am now a Captain.
The moral of the story? Wizz Air will give you chances if you want to step up to the plate to take them. But don't stay too long if you're an expat, and if you really think it's so sh1t: either don't apply, or just leave for better things.
I spent 2 years at Wizz until recently. I had a lot of worldwide experience of large Airbus aircraft as an FO before I joined.
Wizz Air gave me a DEC.
They left me alone and allowed me to develop as a Captain, without fear of dismissal if I made a minor error. I could uplift extra fuel and never have to explain why. I could pick up a phone and get advice if needed at any time.
I was promoted to a Base Captain role after 15 months in the company. A very difficult job, in a challenging base, which I did my best to run fairly - and professionally.
I was given the chance to perhaps enter the training department - but declined as I knew I would be leaving soon after.
Wizz Air paid me, on time and every month. They gave me a port in a storm in 2009 when Virgin Atlantic were binning me for being near the bottom of their seniority list. They gave me my Command - and I'll always be glad of that.
So, is it sh1t? Well, the money could be better - especially for FO's.
But, for BBU pilots to think they should be treated differently is not correct. I had to pay €1000 per month in Katowice for an apartment when I was based there. Do you think Warsaw or Prague is a cheaper city to live in than Bucharest? Do you think Katowice is prettier than Bucharest? Get over it. The housing allowance was divisive - no other bases got it, so why should you? I tried my hardest for my pilots in my base, via a letter to senior management, and was royally slapped down for it. I never really did expect to get them a housing allowance, because BBU pilots received €1200 a month and only spent €500 of it on rent - whilst letting it be known that was the case. Smart? Hardly.
To put €1200 a month in perspective: the Base Captains only receive €1000 a month for all the hassle they endure....
So, as an ex-pat, I took as much as I could from Wizz Air and left when I got a better offer.
2 1/2 years ago, I was an FO with no prospects in Virgin Atlantic. Redundancy loomed.
After working hard, making sacrifices and being lonely whilst away from my family, I got a far, far better job back in the UK. I even had a choice - because I am now a Captain.
The moral of the story? Wizz Air will give you chances if you want to step up to the plate to take them. But don't stay too long if you're an expat, and if you really think it's so sh1t: either don't apply, or just leave for better things.
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Narrow Runway
You forget one minor point: evryone here is naming the BBU allowance a "housing allowance". That is only part of the story.
To be completely fair in your assessment of BBU "privileges", we could compare how many sectors the Wizz pilots fly per month in Gdansk or Katowice. Every month is about 50 sectors or more. BBu has long night flights and longer sectors in general, many pilots don't exceed 30 sectors per month.
This allowance was taking this into account too.
Flex
You forget one minor point: evryone here is naming the BBU allowance a "housing allowance". That is only part of the story.
To be completely fair in your assessment of BBU "privileges", we could compare how many sectors the Wizz pilots fly per month in Gdansk or Katowice. Every month is about 50 sectors or more. BBu has long night flights and longer sectors in general, many pilots don't exceed 30 sectors per month.
This allowance was taking this into account too.
Flex
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Housing Allowance or Sector Pay Compensation
Hi Flex,
It is called a housing allowance, but is used to compensate for less sectors?
But in that case, what about the bases in CLJ, SOF, KBP & TSR that all do similar numbers of sectors, i.e. 30 or so a month?
In CLJ, for example, a case was made for the "housing allowance or sector compensation" to be paid. It was declined.
If it were a true sector pay compensation, then all bases with similar sector lengths should be entitled to it and not just BBU. At least that's my view.
Either way, the housing allowance dated back to a time when Wizz could not get pilots to go to BBU (about 2007 or 2008, I believe). Since then, the company is inundated with unemployed pilots and believes it can do away with such a scheme. Rightly, or wrongly, thats their view.
I'm not saying I agree with removing it - but I can see why the company have done so.
In the bigger picture of things, it's unjustified.
If BBU is unliveable without the allowance, why not try another base? GDN would perhaps provide a nice mix of sectors and nicer architecture. And there are significantly fewer wild dogs running about.
It is called a housing allowance, but is used to compensate for less sectors?
But in that case, what about the bases in CLJ, SOF, KBP & TSR that all do similar numbers of sectors, i.e. 30 or so a month?
In CLJ, for example, a case was made for the "housing allowance or sector compensation" to be paid. It was declined.
If it were a true sector pay compensation, then all bases with similar sector lengths should be entitled to it and not just BBU. At least that's my view.
Either way, the housing allowance dated back to a time when Wizz could not get pilots to go to BBU (about 2007 or 2008, I believe). Since then, the company is inundated with unemployed pilots and believes it can do away with such a scheme. Rightly, or wrongly, thats their view.
I'm not saying I agree with removing it - but I can see why the company have done so.
In the bigger picture of things, it's unjustified.
If BBU is unliveable without the allowance, why not try another base? GDN would perhaps provide a nice mix of sectors and nicer architecture. And there are significantly fewer wild dogs running about.
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Narrow Runway
With all due respect , you have made it plain in your previous post, you no longer work for Wizz Air. For someone who neither works or worked in BBU you have alot of opinions about the circumstances of those that DO still work there. Please consider the circumstances of those struggling in BBU before you post your "justifications".
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Wizz and Expats
Hi everyb,
I support Narrow Rw's post 100%.
I came back to work in my country for Wizz after 15 years of expat wide-body flying.
I cannot be happier. Of course I took 60% pay cut from my previous A340 command job, but we know we can't have everything, eh...
Expats should treat Wizz as a temporary shelter (if you are a captain) or upgrade opportunity (for F/O), and should understand that management are very flexible and basically it's better for them to have local pilots.
IMHO the situation will change dramatically within 2-3 years, when CEE pilots have full access to the job market in Europe. At that time I believe Wizz T&C will become closer to Easy, Air Berlin etc.
I support Narrow Rw's post 100%.
I came back to work in my country for Wizz after 15 years of expat wide-body flying.
I cannot be happier. Of course I took 60% pay cut from my previous A340 command job, but we know we can't have everything, eh...
Expats should treat Wizz as a temporary shelter (if you are a captain) or upgrade opportunity (for F/O), and should understand that management are very flexible and basically it's better for them to have local pilots.
IMHO the situation will change dramatically within 2-3 years, when CEE pilots have full access to the job market in Europe. At that time I believe Wizz T&C will become closer to Easy, Air Berlin etc.
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Mondeoman
I thought I was quite straight in all fairness.
If you can tell me, without emotion, why you deserve the housing allowance when your colleagues in CLJ, TSR, KBP and SOF do not, I will happily listen.
Until then, I don't think I've said anything incorrect and I fully stand by my previous posts.
If you are struggling in BBU, then request a base move. Then, you will know if indeed you were so hard done by.
If you can tell me, without emotion, why you deserve the housing allowance when your colleagues in CLJ, TSR, KBP and SOF do not, I will happily listen.
Until then, I don't think I've said anything incorrect and I fully stand by my previous posts.
If you are struggling in BBU, then request a base move. Then, you will know if indeed you were so hard done by.
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why you deserve the housing allowance
This is not "fair", as It was said on the official notification...
If they wanna make it "fair", let´s stablish a payroll system based on flight hour
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Narrow Runway
Thanks for your insight. Why no allowance in CLJ or TGM? could that be because the housing is costing a third of what you find in BBU? Could that be that when you go to the restaurant in Cluj you will pay 50 lei for dinner for 3 persons?
As for Wizzair being inondated with unemployed pilots, it may be true, but the ones with proper experience, I doubt. I can see numerous roster days where I don't have an FO until the night before, I am called on my days off on a regular basis (once a month) from Budapest because they're short of piloot/captains. Maybe the "inundating pilots" don't have the right experience, or maybe after applying when they find out they will be sent to CLJ or TGM, they think twice.
On the BBU specifics, although everyone thinks they are special, well, BBU is a bit special, as it is filled with expats, commuting pilots who otherwise would not be able to work in Wizzair on any other base (in Romania in the example), as TGM for example leaves pilots with little or no commuting possibilities.
And when these expats will have finally enough (enough hours to get out or enough of the degrading conditions, whichever comes first), I hope I'll be around to see the available Romanian pilots (with due respect) inundating BBU offices to beg for a job.
There are little or no pilots available from Romania to fill the gaps. And the few available are very aware, by now, that the pay has been cut by more than 30% as an F/O.
Pilots will vote with their feet, it's as good an any union on the long term.
Flex
Thanks for your insight. Why no allowance in CLJ or TGM? could that be because the housing is costing a third of what you find in BBU? Could that be that when you go to the restaurant in Cluj you will pay 50 lei for dinner for 3 persons?
As for Wizzair being inondated with unemployed pilots, it may be true, but the ones with proper experience, I doubt. I can see numerous roster days where I don't have an FO until the night before, I am called on my days off on a regular basis (once a month) from Budapest because they're short of piloot/captains. Maybe the "inundating pilots" don't have the right experience, or maybe after applying when they find out they will be sent to CLJ or TGM, they think twice.
On the BBU specifics, although everyone thinks they are special, well, BBU is a bit special, as it is filled with expats, commuting pilots who otherwise would not be able to work in Wizzair on any other base (in Romania in the example), as TGM for example leaves pilots with little or no commuting possibilities.
And when these expats will have finally enough (enough hours to get out or enough of the degrading conditions, whichever comes first), I hope I'll be around to see the available Romanian pilots (with due respect) inundating BBU offices to beg for a job.
There are little or no pilots available from Romania to fill the gaps. And the few available are very aware, by now, that the pay has been cut by more than 30% as an F/O.
Pilots will vote with their feet, it's as good an any union on the long term.
Flex
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Oh I forgot one little detail:
28 short sectors for a captain represents around 1680 euros
56 short sectors for a captain represents around 3360 euros
so the difference is around 1680 euros. Only with the sector (e.g BBU Vs Gdansk), the allowance was not event covering the difference.
28 short sectors for a captain represents around 1680 euros
56 short sectors for a captain represents around 3360 euros
so the difference is around 1680 euros. Only with the sector (e.g BBU Vs Gdansk), the allowance was not event covering the difference.
Last edited by FLEXPWR; 28th Jun 2011 at 07:08. Reason: clarity
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Flex
Hi Flex,
I don't think you are being entirely accurate in your analysis:
1) you still have the €1200 per month until September, and then it is being reduced by €100 each month for a year until it no longer features. Therefore, you have not yet "suffered" as another poster says;
2) there are commuters in both TGM and CLJ. I was one for starters, there are others. In fact, CLJ is full of commuters - Hungarian commuters perhaps, but commuters nonetheless. Therefore, commuters are nothing special in BBU. Admittedly, there are lots of you, but it's your choice, not the company's to make you stay there. As I've said before, move base if you think it'll be unmanageable after the housing allowance disappears;
3) an apartment in CLJ is approximately €400 per month, plus bills for 80sq metres. Many of you live, or lived, in serviced apartments near BBU which were about €600 per month. Therefore, hardly expensive. In fact a lot less than I paid in KTW;
4) I agree totally with moving to flying hourly pay. I put this to both the HFO and Fleet Captain. The idea was not accepted as being workable. I disagree with their analysis, but could not get them to change their views, and;
5) Pilots in BBU do not fly only 26 SHORT sectors a month. It's all long or medium. Still less than other bases, but not so dramatic as you point out. For Capptains, the pay gap is less, but I admit for FO's it's awful;
My issue was not one of "BBU should not have such extra pay", rather one of "all bases with low sectors should be equally compensated".
Do you guys really think I am some kind of Wizz Air management sympathiser? I had some huge arguments with the HFO over the way things were being done in Wizz Air. I worked myself to the edge of exhaustion trying my best to improve what I could. Ultimately, I realised things would never improve. I left.
Wizz Air is not making money. The investors want returns. I can't see things improving in the current climate - and the only thing people can, or will, do is leave for better things.
I don't think you are being entirely accurate in your analysis:
1) you still have the €1200 per month until September, and then it is being reduced by €100 each month for a year until it no longer features. Therefore, you have not yet "suffered" as another poster says;
2) there are commuters in both TGM and CLJ. I was one for starters, there are others. In fact, CLJ is full of commuters - Hungarian commuters perhaps, but commuters nonetheless. Therefore, commuters are nothing special in BBU. Admittedly, there are lots of you, but it's your choice, not the company's to make you stay there. As I've said before, move base if you think it'll be unmanageable after the housing allowance disappears;
3) an apartment in CLJ is approximately €400 per month, plus bills for 80sq metres. Many of you live, or lived, in serviced apartments near BBU which were about €600 per month. Therefore, hardly expensive. In fact a lot less than I paid in KTW;
4) I agree totally with moving to flying hourly pay. I put this to both the HFO and Fleet Captain. The idea was not accepted as being workable. I disagree with their analysis, but could not get them to change their views, and;
5) Pilots in BBU do not fly only 26 SHORT sectors a month. It's all long or medium. Still less than other bases, but not so dramatic as you point out. For Capptains, the pay gap is less, but I admit for FO's it's awful;
My issue was not one of "BBU should not have such extra pay", rather one of "all bases with low sectors should be equally compensated".
Do you guys really think I am some kind of Wizz Air management sympathiser? I had some huge arguments with the HFO over the way things were being done in Wizz Air. I worked myself to the edge of exhaustion trying my best to improve what I could. Ultimately, I realised things would never improve. I left.
Wizz Air is not making money. The investors want returns. I can't see things improving in the current climate - and the only thing people can, or will, do is leave for better things.
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Lakunas,
The last I was told is that the company was not making much money, nor was it losing much money. That is why expansion has stopped, in an effort to mature the existing markets/routes in order to create returns for the investors.
If a Captain earns €35 a sector in VNO, then that is a new low. That is more or less what FO's get for a long sector in other bases.
The last I was told is that the company was not making much money, nor was it losing much money. That is why expansion has stopped, in an effort to mature the existing markets/routes in order to create returns for the investors.
If a Captain earns €35 a sector in VNO, then that is a new low. That is more or less what FO's get for a long sector in other bases.