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BA recruiting now for service pilots only.

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BA recruiting now for service pilots only.

Old 1st Apr 2011, 09:46
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BA recruiting now for service pilots only.

Just received an email from BA recruitment website. Good luck to all you service guys & girls!



Ref UKLHR1232
Region UK - Heathrow
Location London - Heathrow
Category Technical & Operations
*


Job Description

The*Managed Path Direct Entry Pilot Scheme*is for experienced, high calibre qualified service pilots of the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy, Royal Marines and Army Air Corps who want to develop their careers with one of the most progressive international airlines in the business.
*
Please note that this is a dedicated recruitment path for service pilots only. Please do not apply if you are not a UK service pilot.

Principal Accountabilities

You will need:
A minimum of 1500 hours flying experience on any service aircraft.
If you are interested in being streamed to a longhaul vacancy in British Airways straight from your military service you will also need to satisfy additional hours and licensing requirements which are: A UK issued*JAA/CAA ATPL(A), 2000 hours total flying time including 1000 hours on Jet transport category aircraft with MTOM greater than 25 tonnes, or Multi-crew turbo-prop transport aircraft or Military equivalent with MTOM greater than 50 tonnes. You must also have flown the qualifying aircraft*in the*relevant, aforementioned weight category,*in the*12 months preceding the start of your conversion course at British Airways. Further advice is available from the Pilot Recruitment Team.
Please ensure you have these hours now, at the point of application.

The Individual

You will need to obtain a UK issued*JAA/CAA ATPL(A) or*'Frozen' ATPL before you commence your employment with British Airways, although you do not need to have any civilian flying qualifications at the point you make your application to Managed Path. Please refer to the CAA guide LASORS - Section G2 for more information.
You will need a first class flying record and a good level of physical fitness
You will demonstrate evidence of leadership, intellect, resilience, reliability, adaptability, high personal standards, motivation and flexibility, together with well developed customer service skills and the ability to build strong working relationships
You will be physically fit and in possession of a JAA/UK CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airways’ medical criteria for employment is of a higher standard than the CAA requirement
Height between 1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height (height is accurately determined during the assessment process). Qualified pilots who are taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet the requirements of the seating positions in the British Airways fleet of aircraft
You will have fluency in spoken and written English, and will hold ICAO Level 6 Language Proficiency in English.

Application Process

All applicants are required to answer the following questions, each within 250 words. Please prepare your answers in advance.
What are the behaviours that demonstrate your motivation and commitment to your current service employer?
Give a recent example of when you have made an important decision. Consider the sources of information you used to make your decision, how you prioritised your actions and how you influenced others to implement your decision
Give an example of when you have been involved in a major change in the work environment. How did you adapt to this and what did you learn?
Explain the competitive threat facing British Airways at present. Describe how you, in the role of Flight Crew, can contribute to the overall success of the business
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 14:56
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Any reason why a QSP with a UK issued*JAA/CAA ATPL(A), 2000 hours total flying time including 1000 hours on Jet transport category aircraft with MTOM greater than 25 tonnes, or Multi-crew turbo-prop transport aircraft or Military equivalent with MTOM greater than 50 tonnes, can go straight onto BA longhaul. However a civi guy with same experience on say a 320 or 737 had to be rated to apply for the B747?
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 15:22
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So that 75,000 pilots don't apply? Sifting through 75,000 applications would be too much work. I'd have thought 99.9999999999999999999% of pilots under 35 in Europe would apply. And probably 70% of pilots in the 35-40 bracket. Plus all the pilots in the middle east. It's not fair as such but it is understandable. HR don't like working hard at the best of times in my experience.
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 17:10
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Recruiting only Service Pilots Is it discrimination ?

If an airline has a policy of recruiting military pilots with lower professional qualifications and experiance than the civilians its prepared to recruit could the airline be accused of discrimination.

In order to become a UK military pilot you have to be a British and also have to satisfy British residency requirements.

It would not be possible for European pilots who have the right to live and work in the UK, for example individuals from Germany or Portugal, to meet the nationaliity requirements to serve in the British military and so the airline by stipulating British military only is potentially being racially discriminatory.

While the UK MOD has immunity from many aspects of employment law airlines do not have such immunity.

By saying RN, AAC and RAF qualified pilots its the equivalent of saying British only need apply and im wondering if this is okay under employment law.

Of course be a very brave bunny to take a pop at an airline for this policy but is this something that BALPA should have a look at ?
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 17:22
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Or you could check the date?
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 17:30
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McC Is this a April fools joke ?

Brilliant if it is ?

I bit !
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 18:47
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Don't fret; you'll find that most military pilots won't qualify. It's targeted at a small number who fulfil a particular contractual requirement.

It won't make any significant threat to the job market for non tr civilian pilots.
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 19:06
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Maybe it gives BA the opportunity to select British pilots, much as European flag carriers discriminate against the Brits on language proficiency ... ?

In principal I do not have any problem with Flag carriers having a preference for their "native" pilots ... This may be a mechanism for them to realise this preference too ..

I. Duke
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 19:24
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Not an April fools joke, it's on their jobs website.
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 19:58
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Paul Rice, you probably should have worked harder at school, then you wouldn't have to play the discrimination card
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Old 1st Apr 2011, 21:38
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I wouldn't worry.
There are so few of us left nowadays, we really won't affect the numbers much.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 05:04
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This isn't new. 'Managed Path' is the child of another scheme set up in the late 1990s which was called RAFCARS (the RAF Civil Airline Recruitment Scheme) which was actulally set up by the RAF itself and was designed to seamlessly transfer pilots who has completed their RAF engagements directly into airlines participating in the scheme. The benefit to the RAF was that pilots would complete their full contracts and not be tempted to leave early safe in the knowledge thay have a job lined up. The benefit to the airline was that they could cherry pick some quality candidates. There were about six or seven ailines in the scheme including BA, Air 2000 (at the time) and Monarch. the scheme was set up with BALPAs approval - and although BALPA can't represent RAF pilots, many were members.

But it didn't necessarily give the pilots an easier time. The airlines had access to information that would not be available for other candidates. I joined the scheme when it started and I was suprised at how involved the application form was. Far more information that required of a normal application and I had to write down my Commanding Officer's assessment of my ability for each tour of duty. Far more information on my ability as a pilot was available to the particpating airlines than with any regular applicant for employment.

I'm not sure how many people got jobs through RAFCARS. I only know of three - including the chap at the Personnel Admin centre who set it up! I didn't as my main target for employment wasn't part of the scheme. It seems that BA have resurrected it. It makes recruitment easier for them as they know exactly what they are getting and a lot of their selection process has already been done for them by the military.

Is it fair? Depends on your point of view. But most things in life aren't, particularly so in this industry.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 05:26
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DW

Great to see a well-informed, honest post on the subject. Cheers Dan.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 05:59
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Several Nimrod mates entered by this method. The RAF, Balpa & the CAA actively encouraged the process. Ratings were awarded by CAA examiners during flights & simulators with the hours provided freely by the RAF.

The advantage to the airlines was that the RAF had done all of the initial selection, training etc. It was a low cost, virtually risk free method of recruitment & it rewarded experienced military pilots who had willingly served their country.

For people to talk of discrimination & legal action only serves to prove how this country has changed, for the worse.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 08:26
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On one hand I do value the hard work and risk to life and limb undertaken by our service personnel in the name of Queen and Country. They do not get sufficient recognition or support in our modern society. I studied with a few of them during my ATPL groundschool. They were great people and I wish them well.

On the other hand, service personnel have benefitted hugely from extensive and very expensive flight training at the taxpayers' expense, good wages from a young age and they get a golden goodbye from the MoD in most circumstances. The recent BA recruitment drive did not discriminate against them.

It is a basic moral and legal principle that discrimination is unfair. Are we to forget this principle when those who benefit deserve it?
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 11:28
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It is a basic moral and legal principle that discrimination is unfair. Are we to forget this principle when those who benefit deserve it?
Maybe that's so within the EU. Oh b*gger, UK's a member. Let's have a referendum so that we can leave & ditch the European Court of Justice at the same time!
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 12:42
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Iron Duke, Paul Rice, MH and all others mentioning the D-word,

Let's not confuse things here. It is perfectly legal for a company to decide on which criteria they use to select candidates (including employment history, training and language skills), provided they comply with the prohibition of discrimination. Allow me to explain:

Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) forbids discrimination based on sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status with respect to rights under the Convention. These are not infringed by not offering you a job or denying access to a selection process based on the fact that you don't speak a certain language or have a specific training/employment history. It would be illegal for a company not to consider you as a candidate based on the fact that you do speak a certain language or have a certain training/employment background.

The right to live and work in any country in the EU is therefore not affected by asking for the ability to speak a certain language (you are free to learn it). IMHO it would be more appropriate to blame the UK government or education system for not stimulating it's citizens to speak more than only English.

Back on topic: the BA requirements for military pilots to meet are pretty stringent and will result in only few candidates. Then again: a good military pilot does not necessarily make a good commercial pilot...

Last edited by Longhitter; 2nd Apr 2011 at 13:14.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 16:35
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"On the other hand, service personnel have benefitted hugely from extensive and very expensive flight training at the taxpayers' expense, good wages from a young age and they get a golden goodbye from the MoD in most circumstances."

Go on then, explain how we have benefitted.
Our expensive flying training might make us good at flying military aircraft, but as has been pointed out many times, this does not make us good civvy pilots, and anyway, civvy airlines seem to have absolutely no interest how good you are as long as you pass the minimum on courses/checks, and it certainly does not get us our licenses.
The taxpayer spends a lot of money to make us good at our job, and then gets the full benefit back from us doing our jobs in the military.

Good wages, dont make me laugh. It is ok, we don't starve, but we don't do it for the money.
Find out what a 20 year captain of a C17 or tristar or VC10 gets and then compare that to a 20yr seniority civvy captain.
Of course along with this is the fact that the Officer also has his real job of being an officer to do, so we should be compared with management wages for fairness.
Why do you think we get flying pay and retention bonuses to stop us leaving for more money!?

The Golden goodbye, as you call it is the standard payment to all ex military to aid reintegration into the civvy world. Hardly a special gift. Plenty of civvy companies do the same after a long career. Added to this, our pension des not even take our flying pay into account.

To those who are playing the discrimination card, seriously, get a life. I sincerely hope to never end up in a cockpit with anyone who could look themselves in a mirror and honestly believe that an ex mil pilot has somehow hed an easy route into an airline.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 17:09
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Airlines have been discriminating in favour of military pilots ever since the days airlines came into existence. The military has always been one of the favoured sources for recruiting experienced pilot applicants.

The discrimination is the same sort of discrimination that favours type rated and experienced applicants over non-type rated and inexperienced applicants. It is the same sort of discrimination that favours integrated full time courses for cadet applicants, over modular piece meal programmes for cadet applicants.

It is the same sort of discrimination that allows a company or an individual to recruit what they perceive as the best applicants for a particular role. Discrimination is positive, and at the basic level a survival necessity. It may be "unfair" on ocaissions, but is neither unlawful nor immoral.

There are forms of discrimination that are unlawful, but since there is no suggestion that these companies are excluding anybody by virtue of that persons race, gender, sexual orientation or age, that wouldn't appear to be the case here.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 17:09
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Those pulling the D-card really need to get a grip of themselves and look at the big picture. Since the thaw a few months ago there have been five recruitment openings into BA: 4 for civvies, one for military guys. Hardly discriminatory is it?

And regarding 'well paid', a first year Ryanair FO contractor takes home more than a middle seniority Flight Lieutenant on middle rate flying pay.
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