XLS job or Ryanair?
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XLS job or Ryanair?
Hi guys I have a an Important decision to make. I'm a 700hr TT pilot with 300hrs on light turboprop.
I did an Interview and sim check with a biz jet operator, and have been on the waiting list for several months. In the meantime I attended a Ryanair assessment, and passed. I recently was informed that a position on the citation xls is available for me. The typerating is partly self funded I will be looking at approx £9000 out of my own pocket with a salary of about £2000/month after tax starting as FO. I would have to move to eastern europe but would be working for a western european company. I will be provided with the exact contract in a few days.
On the other hand I allready have a typerating starting date with ryanair and will have to make the £22000 payment for 737-NG rating within the next weeks. I would have to take on a loan in both cases... plus I'm getting close to 30 years old and this might be my last chance to get onto an airliner.
I'm really not sure what the right move here is.
What would you guys do?
I will have to make a choice within the next week.
Thx for your advise
I did an Interview and sim check with a biz jet operator, and have been on the waiting list for several months. In the meantime I attended a Ryanair assessment, and passed. I recently was informed that a position on the citation xls is available for me. The typerating is partly self funded I will be looking at approx £9000 out of my own pocket with a salary of about £2000/month after tax starting as FO. I would have to move to eastern europe but would be working for a western european company. I will be provided with the exact contract in a few days.
On the other hand I allready have a typerating starting date with ryanair and will have to make the £22000 payment for 737-NG rating within the next weeks. I would have to take on a loan in both cases... plus I'm getting close to 30 years old and this might be my last chance to get onto an airliner.
I'm really not sure what the right move here is.
What would you guys do?
I will have to make a choice within the next week.
Thx for your advise
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Only you can answer this.
What flying do you want to do?
Bizjet or airline?
What flying do you want to do?
Bizjet or airline?
I'd go airline, but that is me. I do not work for FR, but work for one of FR's competitors. Never interested me going Biz Jet, always wanted airline flying myself. Agree with the previous post, only you can really answer the question you posted.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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I'd choose Ryanair. Fair schedule, home every night, good 737NG time and experience. With airline experience you can consider other legacy airlines down the road if you wish. XLS would be fun flying but job security could be questionable long term.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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id go for ryan too,stay on good terms with the XLS boys,just in case! If you dont like it then you can always leave after 2-3 years(like so many at the mo)or head off to the sand.
think of your family and commuting if you need to.best of luck!!
think of your family and commuting if you need to.best of luck!!
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I'd take the 737 just because it's easier to transfer over to Bizjets later from the airlines than the other way round. It wasn't the case even five years ago, but today you're fighting an uphill battle to get into the airlines without a TR and 500hrs on type.
Go to Ryanair, do your time and then the world will almost be your oyster!
Go to Ryanair, do your time and then the world will almost be your oyster!
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Think twice...
You should read more about Ryanair and the way they treat their employees especially F.O.s... Lots of guys got the assesment, went through the TR and still waited months for line training. And while you are doing your L.T. you get peanuts. Think about it before you fork out 25,000 + pounds!
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If you are intent on living in Girona, perhaps you should reconsider Ryanair given today's news:
Ryanair (Dublin) has announced it will pull five Boeing 737-800s from its Girona base (near Barcelona) on the Costa Brava as the new regional government choose not to honor the previous agreement signed between the airline and the previous Catalonia government.
So, hypothetically, if you are hired into a base that gets downsized at some point, would you get to bid other Ryanair bases that are seeing growth? What is the general policy for bidding other Ryanair bases (i.e., start in the UK and then bid a base in Italy or Spain)? Is there a mandatory base-lock time for newhires before you can bid another base (that experiences growth)?
Ryanair (Dublin) has announced it will pull five Boeing 737-800s from its Girona base (near Barcelona) on the Costa Brava as the new regional government choose not to honor the previous agreement signed between the airline and the previous Catalonia government.
So, hypothetically, if you are hired into a base that gets downsized at some point, would you get to bid other Ryanair bases that are seeing growth? What is the general policy for bidding other Ryanair bases (i.e., start in the UK and then bid a base in Italy or Spain)? Is there a mandatory base-lock time for newhires before you can bid another base (that experiences growth)?
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I can give you my experience :
started Ryanair and after 3 years joined Netjets.
The crisis made bizjet jobs the worst place to be, but still the quality of life is higher.
I can tell you one thing, if i had not my B737NG rating and 2500 on type right now i would have been jobless in the bizworld instead i found many airlines jobs.
So i suggest go to airline THEN go to biz, so u can jump back and forth.
The other way around its hard due to rating.
D
started Ryanair and after 3 years joined Netjets.
The crisis made bizjet jobs the worst place to be, but still the quality of life is higher.
I can tell you one thing, if i had not my B737NG rating and 2500 on type right now i would have been jobless in the bizworld instead i found many airlines jobs.
So i suggest go to airline THEN go to biz, so u can jump back and forth.
The other way around its hard due to rating.
D
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A few years ago i was in the same position as you: ryanair or bizjet. I would say: what is the field there are operating with xls? The biz company i was working for was flying to africa, middle east, far east, canada and other places. I must admit: what i've learned in those 3 years was unbeatable with the airline.
On the otherside, it is indeed not so easy to switch from biz to airline i think.
On the otherside, it is indeed not so easy to switch from biz to airline i think.
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737NG pros: medium jet(over 60 tones); airline environment
XLS pros: charters -- learn a lot of things regarding navigation ; interesting operation...
Some guys made a good point to go airline first and then biz; it is a lot easier. T&C vary a lot but thing of the options you may have down the road.
XLS pros: charters -- learn a lot of things regarding navigation ; interesting operation...
Some guys made a good point to go airline first and then biz; it is a lot easier. T&C vary a lot but thing of the options you may have down the road.
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Hi Ronand,
as you can see most answers in the 'bizjet' forum are biased towards the XLS & in this forum towards the 737.
Coming from the bizjet world myself, I would suggest you go for the XLS, however i tend to agree with those who suggest that you go for the 737.
A few hours in the 737 will get you into the biz jet world much easier if you find out that airline work is not for you & if it is .....well you are there already.
We all know that things at Ryanair are not ideal, however in my opinion this bizjet outfit are taking the p&%s when they are asking you to part pay the Type Rating, relocate to Eastern Europe (i guess at your own expense) & the salary is not that great either.....you might aswell provide the lube!!.
Good Luck with your future!
as you can see most answers in the 'bizjet' forum are biased towards the XLS & in this forum towards the 737.
Coming from the bizjet world myself, I would suggest you go for the XLS, however i tend to agree with those who suggest that you go for the 737.
A few hours in the 737 will get you into the biz jet world much easier if you find out that airline work is not for you & if it is .....well you are there already.
We all know that things at Ryanair are not ideal, however in my opinion this bizjet outfit are taking the p&%s when they are asking you to part pay the Type Rating, relocate to Eastern Europe (i guess at your own expense) & the salary is not that great either.....you might aswell provide the lube!!.
Good Luck with your future!
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I have a friend in Ryanair.... They are NOT nice people. They dont really have a bidding policy. They can change you to anywhere in their network, PERMANENTLY. They dont have any seniority there. No leave pay. No sick pay. Self employed contracts.
He was initially based at east mids, it took him 2 years to even SPEAK to the person who organised the bids to move to his preferred base of Bristol. Emails/phone calls were never replied to.
Anyway, he eventually got it.
Then 2 months after being at Bristol they phoned him up, ''yeah we're making some changes now, you are going to have to be based in Brussels. Permanently!!!''
He had 2 weeks to sort accommodation, was coming back on the eurostar on his days off, (There were no ryanair flights direct back home), and he could be posted to fly out of any ryanair base within the roster aswell! Trains and hotels were needed to get to airports too, obviously at his own cost.
You do your own tax returns (and although this is not much of a problem), but now i have been told, recently they have yet another way to rip their pilots off. They have set up their own financial company who sorts the accounts at the ryanair side of things, which is a total farce, as they take some of your salary each month, when it has NOTHING to do with them.
He never got the leave he requested.
SO MANY OTHER STORIES!
Rant over....... Ironically, I would go for Ryanair, BUT, only if you dont mind being dick*ed around too much, and dont expect many good gestures from them. Do your time and leave.
Just in the recent recruitment for BA, he go in there! so now he's loving it.
He was initially based at east mids, it took him 2 years to even SPEAK to the person who organised the bids to move to his preferred base of Bristol. Emails/phone calls were never replied to.
Anyway, he eventually got it.
Then 2 months after being at Bristol they phoned him up, ''yeah we're making some changes now, you are going to have to be based in Brussels. Permanently!!!''
He had 2 weeks to sort accommodation, was coming back on the eurostar on his days off, (There were no ryanair flights direct back home), and he could be posted to fly out of any ryanair base within the roster aswell! Trains and hotels were needed to get to airports too, obviously at his own cost.
You do your own tax returns (and although this is not much of a problem), but now i have been told, recently they have yet another way to rip their pilots off. They have set up their own financial company who sorts the accounts at the ryanair side of things, which is a total farce, as they take some of your salary each month, when it has NOTHING to do with them.
He never got the leave he requested.
SO MANY OTHER STORIES!
Rant over....... Ironically, I would go for Ryanair, BUT, only if you dont mind being dick*ed around too much, and dont expect many good gestures from them. Do your time and leave.
Just in the recent recruitment for BA, he go in there! so now he's loving it.
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Not sure about that!
IVER -
I have to ask where you consider 'HOME' to be?
Join Ryanair, put in your list of bases, and then expect them to not be one of your choices.
PEBA -
I would think of my family by not taking a job with no idea of where you will based at the end of your type rating.
At least the XLS job has told you WHERE you will be living and based from.
DRAKESTREAM -
Total garbage! You are planning on paying for a type rating with Ryanair now as a first officer for £22,000. If you go off to fly bizjets and in 5 years want to come to airlines, you will STILL have to pay £22,000 to be a cadet in Ryanair.
Bizjets are reluctant to go near Airline guys because they have the wrong attitude. It is all about SAVE FUEL - ON TIME. Bizjets are all about HURRY UP AND WAIT - Take the principle guest where ever he wants to go.
Private is even more the case, only now you take enough fuel to take the principle anywhere he wants, or might want!
If you ask me, take the XLS job. It is cheaper, it will be more fun, it has a base location that you know, and once you are in the private jet world and have the experience, doors open.
If you want to get into the airlines, you can always pay at any point, whether it be now, or 5 years time!
I'd choose Ryanair. Fair schedule, home every night, good 737NG time and experience.
Join Ryanair, put in your list of bases, and then expect them to not be one of your choices.
PEBA -
think of your family and commuting if you need to.best of luck!!
At least the XLS job has told you WHERE you will be living and based from.
DRAKESTREAM -
I'd take the 737 just because it's easier to transfer over to Bizjets later from the airlines than the other way round.
Bizjets are reluctant to go near Airline guys because they have the wrong attitude. It is all about SAVE FUEL - ON TIME. Bizjets are all about HURRY UP AND WAIT - Take the principle guest where ever he wants to go.
Private is even more the case, only now you take enough fuel to take the principle anywhere he wants, or might want!
If you ask me, take the XLS job. It is cheaper, it will be more fun, it has a base location that you know, and once you are in the private jet world and have the experience, doors open.
If you want to get into the airlines, you can always pay at any point, whether it be now, or 5 years time!
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Ryanair still makes more sense in my opinion. Other people have their own opinions. With Ryanair you will get good training, experience and a type rating you can leverage worldwide. Despite Ryanair's poor reputation for employee treatment, you get a known operator and experience that other people respect for the most part. Plus, I know some Ryanair pilots who really enjoy their jobs - although they got the base they wanted early in the process.
Where you would be located will be an important consideration. If you are English and you end up at a Ryanair base in Poland or Germany, perhpas that would not provide the QOL you want. Then again, moving to Eastern Europe for the XLS job might not be favorable either. Hopefully you could get some indication from Ryanair on the possible bases for newbies.
Bottom line: flying for Ryanair for a few years will not hurt your career options in the long run. Maybe you will actually like it.
Good luck
Where you would be located will be an important consideration. If you are English and you end up at a Ryanair base in Poland or Germany, perhpas that would not provide the QOL you want. Then again, moving to Eastern Europe for the XLS job might not be favorable either. Hopefully you could get some indication from Ryanair on the possible bases for newbies.
Bottom line: flying for Ryanair for a few years will not hurt your career options in the long run. Maybe you will actually like it.
Good luck
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Another financial fact, if you are based away from home, but at an airport commutable by Ryanair for home, your travel costs are ZERO. Free travel in uniform any time you like.
If you are thinking of commuting home from somewhere in E Europe you will be buying a ticket, probably at very short notice/high cost, everytime you want to come back.
And, with most affordable tickets, if your schedule/days off are changed, and in a small bizjet company I would think that is a given, you will lose the value of the ticket and have to shell out for a new one.
Couple of years in Ryanair, gain a solid grounding in 2 crew medium jet ops, and you can go where you like afterwards if you should feel so inclined.
Having spent 6 fairly happy years there, I would say its a nobrainer.
If you are thinking of commuting home from somewhere in E Europe you will be buying a ticket, probably at very short notice/high cost, everytime you want to come back.
And, with most affordable tickets, if your schedule/days off are changed, and in a small bizjet company I would think that is a given, you will lose the value of the ticket and have to shell out for a new one.
Couple of years in Ryanair, gain a solid grounding in 2 crew medium jet ops, and you can go where you like afterwards if you should feel so inclined.
Having spent 6 fairly happy years there, I would say its a nobrainer.
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Would advise you to go to RYR, purely for the likelyhood that you'll recieve more consistent training to a likely higher standard. You'll also benefit from a more structured SOP environment whilst you learn your trade.
Many many guys and girls struggle with the bizjet to airline transition, the same certainly isn't true with airline to bizjet (just look at TAG, Nietjets..plus a few more besides) although to be fair, it is a totally different world to airline flying.
I've flown GA, Airlines, then went to Bizjets, and am now working back in the Airlines. My personal preference would have been to stay in the Bizjet world..but with a wife, kiddies and mortgage..bizjets just dont offer that financial security...unless of course you are one of the 5% or so who bag a job with a great owner/family who view you as an idespensible member of their team.
Go to RYR, experience the life...then when you are settled and dont have to think too hard about actually flying anymore...have a look at bizjets if you are still interested.
One last thing...the biggest issue ex airline guys face with their transition to bizjets is quite simple..FLEXIBILITY...so if you are prepared to be flexible...a few thousand 737 hours will look good on your CV, better in fact than 500 XLS hours to the vast majority of mid-sized and larger bizjet operators (cos they pay better!)
Many many guys and girls struggle with the bizjet to airline transition, the same certainly isn't true with airline to bizjet (just look at TAG, Nietjets..plus a few more besides) although to be fair, it is a totally different world to airline flying.
I've flown GA, Airlines, then went to Bizjets, and am now working back in the Airlines. My personal preference would have been to stay in the Bizjet world..but with a wife, kiddies and mortgage..bizjets just dont offer that financial security...unless of course you are one of the 5% or so who bag a job with a great owner/family who view you as an idespensible member of their team.
Go to RYR, experience the life...then when you are settled and dont have to think too hard about actually flying anymore...have a look at bizjets if you are still interested.
One last thing...the biggest issue ex airline guys face with their transition to bizjets is quite simple..FLEXIBILITY...so if you are prepared to be flexible...a few thousand 737 hours will look good on your CV, better in fact than 500 XLS hours to the vast majority of mid-sized and larger bizjet operators (cos they pay better!)
