Agent is BROOKFIELD working as AIR CREW overseas - Social Ins. & Pension payments?
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Agent is BROOKFIELD working as AIR CREW overseas - Social Ins. & Pension payments?
I fellow Pilot picked up on this and not sure what to make of it? -
What is the deal if one is working for and thru Brookfield Aviation International in China for an Airline (I think they have us at Air China and Henan?), but as AIR CREW and obviously outside of the U.K.?
Are they not supposed to make deductions and forward for HM Revenue- specifically make Social payments and pension contributions?
We have been asking but "silence seems to indicate ?".
Thanks in advance.
What is the deal if one is working for and thru Brookfield Aviation International in China for an Airline (I think they have us at Air China and Henan?), but as AIR CREW and obviously outside of the U.K.?
Are they not supposed to make deductions and forward for HM Revenue- specifically make Social payments and pension contributions?
We have been asking but "silence seems to indicate ?".
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by WellFrackMe; 7th Jan 2011 at 08:31. Reason: Clarify
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slightly off subject, I admit, but it is of interest to those of us thinking about going the contract route. I hear the new BRK RYR pilots are set up as self-employed with some construction involving an accountant and a few colleagues. The question is; if they are selling their services to a UK agency are they charging VATon behalf of their company? If not, why not? If I contract a plumber for a few hours the bill includes VAT.
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Whom am I working for and what Insurances are being paid by my Broker/Agent????
FRACKME comes up with something I missed when I signed up.
I do not work for Henan, but for Hainan on the 330. My contract is with "Brookield Aviation International". BUT they are NOT listed after checking as a U.K. Registered Company..... Why?
So now I am thinking is has to do with HM Revenue issues such as social insurance and pension payments that should be made I assume on my behalf?
HALLO Brookfield - if you are reading, which I assume you are, ignoring my Emails???
I have asked several times thru E-mails and Frackme at Air China told me about this and now it is time for answers from you...
1. Why do you make contracts with a non-U.K. registered company on your letterhead for a company which is not even registered in the UK?
2. Why do I do not get a monthly statement with my deductions for HM Revenue or any breakdowns of taxes ,etc?
Sorry to have to drag this into an open forum,,, but you have not responded for over 6 months to my questions but u seems to get $ from my airline to be my agent and do almost no efforts for it.
I do not work for Henan, but for Hainan on the 330. My contract is with "Brookield Aviation International". BUT they are NOT listed after checking as a U.K. Registered Company..... Why?
So now I am thinking is has to do with HM Revenue issues such as social insurance and pension payments that should be made I assume on my behalf?
HALLO Brookfield - if you are reading, which I assume you are, ignoring my Emails???
I have asked several times thru E-mails and Frackme at Air China told me about this and now it is time for answers from you...
1. Why do you make contracts with a non-U.K. registered company on your letterhead for a company which is not even registered in the UK?
2. Why do I do not get a monthly statement with my deductions for HM Revenue or any breakdowns of taxes ,etc?
Sorry to have to drag this into an open forum,,, but you have not responded for over 6 months to my questions but u seems to get $ from my airline to be my agent and do almost no efforts for it.
Last edited by Brookfield Abused; 10th Jan 2011 at 12:55. Reason: More defining and binding statements.
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The aim of Brookfield is to avoid social security payments to the HMRS. It's also a well known fact that Brookfield is in fact owned by the same shareholders as Ryanair. In fact, Mr. Declan used to work for Ryanair.
When he quit Ryanair that's when Brookfield was born. Here's the beauty of the scheme. Because Ryanair was growing so quickly it needed more pilots and cabin crew. If they were to hire all those people on a Ryanair contract, Ryanair would have to pay the social security, pension contributions and healthcare contributions to the Irish government. Add to that such an enormous administration requires a lot of effort, people (read: money) to run.
Because the Irish Revenue Service is notoriously inefficient it took them years to figure out that strangely enough, Ryanair kept expanding at a rate of more than 50 aircraft per year, however magically the amount of Ryanair employees remained the same.
That's when the Irish Revenue figured out that something was amiss. They investigated Ryanair at Dublin airport, the only place where the irish have legal power, and told Ryanair off.
Up to this point the Brookfield contracts were a joke. They did not check where your income was going and so you had a bunch of people who were effectively cashing in more than €10,000 a month without paying any taxes.
At this point Ryanair realised they had to thrown a bone for the irish Revenue. That's when they adjusted their contracts into the form they come in today. Where you are forced to join a ltd. company run by on of 3 friendly accountant firms in Dublin.
The advantage for Ryanair.
1) Because your income flows into an Irish company, you are forced to pay taxes in Ireland. This pleases the Irish Revenue and keeps them off Ryanair's back.
2) Because your income flows into your own company you become responsible for your own social security, healthcare and such.
3) 3% reduction of your pay flows directly back to Brookfield. Think about it. The cost to run your company for you is fixed. Regardless of your income. Strangely enough though, the higher your income, the larger the 3% of that income will be.
By the way. All brookfield payments originate from Gibraltar.
edit: Oh and by the way, important side-note.
When you enter into the CXC system you're a director of the company holding 33% shares. Mind you, not 33.333..%! So there's 3 pilots owning 99% of the company and here it comes. 1% of the company is owned by CXC.
This means that even if 3 pilots decide to band together they still have to deal with CXC as a shareholder in their company. Good luck explaining that to your local banker trying to get a mortgage.
"Yes sir. My main income originates from a foreign company which I'm not even majority shareholder of.". He's going to have a field day with you.
When he quit Ryanair that's when Brookfield was born. Here's the beauty of the scheme. Because Ryanair was growing so quickly it needed more pilots and cabin crew. If they were to hire all those people on a Ryanair contract, Ryanair would have to pay the social security, pension contributions and healthcare contributions to the Irish government. Add to that such an enormous administration requires a lot of effort, people (read: money) to run.
Because the Irish Revenue Service is notoriously inefficient it took them years to figure out that strangely enough, Ryanair kept expanding at a rate of more than 50 aircraft per year, however magically the amount of Ryanair employees remained the same.
That's when the Irish Revenue figured out that something was amiss. They investigated Ryanair at Dublin airport, the only place where the irish have legal power, and told Ryanair off.
Up to this point the Brookfield contracts were a joke. They did not check where your income was going and so you had a bunch of people who were effectively cashing in more than €10,000 a month without paying any taxes.
At this point Ryanair realised they had to thrown a bone for the irish Revenue. That's when they adjusted their contracts into the form they come in today. Where you are forced to join a ltd. company run by on of 3 friendly accountant firms in Dublin.
The advantage for Ryanair.
1) Because your income flows into an Irish company, you are forced to pay taxes in Ireland. This pleases the Irish Revenue and keeps them off Ryanair's back.
2) Because your income flows into your own company you become responsible for your own social security, healthcare and such.
3) 3% reduction of your pay flows directly back to Brookfield. Think about it. The cost to run your company for you is fixed. Regardless of your income. Strangely enough though, the higher your income, the larger the 3% of that income will be.
By the way. All brookfield payments originate from Gibraltar.
edit: Oh and by the way, important side-note.
When you enter into the CXC system you're a director of the company holding 33% shares. Mind you, not 33.333..%! So there's 3 pilots owning 99% of the company and here it comes. 1% of the company is owned by CXC.
This means that even if 3 pilots decide to band together they still have to deal with CXC as a shareholder in their company. Good luck explaining that to your local banker trying to get a mortgage.
"Yes sir. My main income originates from a foreign company which I'm not even majority shareholder of.". He's going to have a field day with you.
Last edited by d105; 11th Jan 2011 at 23:02.
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well said,about time people heard the facts,and its gonna go all across europe soon.
this 3% is some crap,and the face that cxc(the others do) will not let you claim subsistance nor wil they help you with cliaming tax back if you are based out ireland.they dont like talking about it coz it sounds like work to them.
I cant wait til the ****t hits the fan,now that we have a high tax rate in ireland,and peolple want to pay tax at home(be it patriotic or cheaper!!) etc.
ryanair have €4b in the bank and the pilots and cabin crew get paid ****e money.
this 3% is some crap,and the face that cxc(the others do) will not let you claim subsistance nor wil they help you with cliaming tax back if you are based out ireland.they dont like talking about it coz it sounds like work to them.
I cant wait til the ****t hits the fan,now that we have a high tax rate in ireland,and peolple want to pay tax at home(be it patriotic or cheaper!!) etc.
ryanair have €4b in the bank and the pilots and cabin crew get paid ****e money.
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Company office based in Ireland, working in Spain
So, you set up a company in Ireland, and the company registered office is in Ireland. You are working on behalf of that Irish company on an assignment in Spain......Just explain to me why you can not claim ALL EXPENSES whilst working away from your place of permanent employment, i.e, The office in Ireland?
Further to that, Brookfield have no rights to make you pass information regarding your tax compliancies. If you employ a builder, do you get him to build half the house, and then demand to see his Tax Reference Number and last year's tax return before paying him a penny......don't think so!!
From what I know of Brookfield, there seem to be 2 different contracts. One based in Gibraltar and one based in Epson Surrey. Of course both of them were PO Box postal addresses, so impossible to track, especially as the office address in Epson is now block of residential apartments!
My advice to anyone wanting to work with them....DON'T!
My advice to any company wishing to seek contractors to fly their planes......DON'T CHOOSE BROOKFIELD!
Further to that, Brookfield have no rights to make you pass information regarding your tax compliancies. If you employ a builder, do you get him to build half the house, and then demand to see his Tax Reference Number and last year's tax return before paying him a penny......don't think so!!
From what I know of Brookfield, there seem to be 2 different contracts. One based in Gibraltar and one based in Epson Surrey. Of course both of them were PO Box postal addresses, so impossible to track, especially as the office address in Epson is now block of residential apartments!
My advice to anyone wanting to work with them....DON'T!
My advice to any company wishing to seek contractors to fly their planes......DON'T CHOOSE BROOKFIELD!
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In the past Brookfield MAY have been a normal, whatever that is, agency. Indeed, one can still find via Brookfield, vacancies in China etc.
However, as is apparent to anyone with a few electrons roaming in their skull, Brookfields involvement, in a Ryanair context, was merely to facilatate avoidance of these pesky taxes and social charges, to the benefit. . . . historically, of both parties, and currently, to one of them.
If you doubt me, ask Declan. . . . being intrinsically a decent chap. . .well he gave ME a job after my interview, I am sure if you get him pished enough he will tell you
However, as is apparent to anyone with a few electrons roaming in their skull, Brookfields involvement, in a Ryanair context, was merely to facilatate avoidance of these pesky taxes and social charges, to the benefit. . . . historically, of both parties, and currently, to one of them.
If you doubt me, ask Declan. . . . being intrinsically a decent chap. . .well he gave ME a job after my interview, I am sure if you get him pished enough he will tell you
