Industrial Action at Flybe?
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Emloyment choice
As most are aware choice of employer is not always down to the candidate! For many of us Flybe was the only job offer we had, for others location played a part. One thing is certain, historically when the market boomed (i.e. when their employees had a chance to work for alternative airlines) many - up to 30 a month resigned to go elsewhere. So when they employed around 350 pilots they were losing 8% of them every month to the competition. This is due to a mixture of factors but pay and lifestyle are the main ones I think. We work a 5/2 roster with only a compressed weekend between finishing on a late and starting on an early and it's fatiguing compared to other types of flying with less sectors on a quieter and more automated jet.
The company takes the view that people will always want to move on to bigger and better things and sees itelf as a training airline but with an increasing jet fleet and a lack of opportunity elsewhere this simply isn't true.
If rosters and pay improved many more would choose to stay with Flybe. the company is expanding and secure, plus offers local basing. It has newish aircraft and excellent training so I suspect could with a few small changes become a genuine airline of choice for many.
DP
The company takes the view that people will always want to move on to bigger and better things and sees itelf as a training airline but with an increasing jet fleet and a lack of opportunity elsewhere this simply isn't true.
If rosters and pay improved many more would choose to stay with Flybe. the company is expanding and secure, plus offers local basing. It has newish aircraft and excellent training so I suspect could with a few small changes become a genuine airline of choice for many.
DP
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flybe is not a training airline anymore. You would think management would want that . Sadly they dont because they would have to pay more money. Start treating the employees accordingly and it would definately bring respect for both sides
well said DP
well said DP
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Shafted again
Here's one for you. Slightly off the immediate topic, but of interest to at least half of us.
Hands up all who thought that the ex-Bacon crowd were "red-ringed" on their higher salaries until the Flybe pay scales caught them up at which point we'd all be living in perfect harmony on the same pay for the same service doing the same job?
Until today I would have put my hand up, but I've just overheard some chat amongst the ex-Bacon barbiejet crowd and apparently things are not quite as they seem.
It would appear that in Bacon when you got promoted you moved from your pay point/increment on the F/O's pay scales to the same numerical point on the Capt's pay scale. ie If you'd done 5 years as an F/O you were put on pay point 5 of the Capt's scale. Good for them you say.
However, when they now get promoted on to the shiny Flybe jet fleet (as some of them now are) they stay on that pay point. So an F/O who got promoted after 5 years service in Bacon, 5 years ago, will go onto the jet scale at PP 10. That means he'll no longer be red-ringed and will be on £66600 whilst a Jersey original with the same service (all with JE/Flybe!) will be on £62900!
Shafted again!
Hands up all who thought that the ex-Bacon crowd were "red-ringed" on their higher salaries until the Flybe pay scales caught them up at which point we'd all be living in perfect harmony on the same pay for the same service doing the same job?
Until today I would have put my hand up, but I've just overheard some chat amongst the ex-Bacon barbiejet crowd and apparently things are not quite as they seem.
It would appear that in Bacon when you got promoted you moved from your pay point/increment on the F/O's pay scales to the same numerical point on the Capt's pay scale. ie If you'd done 5 years as an F/O you were put on pay point 5 of the Capt's scale. Good for them you say.
However, when they now get promoted on to the shiny Flybe jet fleet (as some of them now are) they stay on that pay point. So an F/O who got promoted after 5 years service in Bacon, 5 years ago, will go onto the jet scale at PP 10. That means he'll no longer be red-ringed and will be on £66600 whilst a Jersey original with the same service (all with JE/Flybe!) will be on £62900!
Shafted again!
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It is worth pointing out that the figures being quoted by Serenity do not take into account the various other extras that different companies throw in. I can only speak for easyJet, but the £82324 is only the basic pay for a Captain. You also receive £25.79/sector and are likely to fly between 400-450 sectors a years. If you do any form of training you get paid 12.5% for a Line Trainer or 17.5% for a TRE. As a TRE you get paid for 2 sectors' pay for being in the sim plus £60 and on a Line Training Day you now get a further £20/day. In addition all pilots receive a loyalty bonus of 5% of basic on the anniversary of joining after 2 years. That goes up to 10% after 5 years and 15% after 10 years (no incremental pay). Finally, the company contributes 7% of basic to salary. In practice that means that most Captains earn in excess of £100k and a TRE earns around £125 - 130k. If you work in Spain, Italy or France you will earn substantially more, but the contract structure is totally different. There is an ongoing dispute about pay (is there not always?) but however you look at it, going to an Airbus company instead of FlyBe has substantial benefits.
The good news for all the strugglers at FlyBe is that at the end of the year there is a good chance we will change our policy of taking newbies from Oxford, CTC etc and go for people with extensive experience. I can only commend that change if it occurs.
The good news for all the strugglers at FlyBe is that at the end of the year there is a good chance we will change our policy of taking newbies from Oxford, CTC etc and go for people with extensive experience. I can only commend that change if it occurs.
By comparison Olympic are looking for Dash8 F/O`s for extendable 6 month contracts in Athens.
3,300 Euros
700 Euros allowances
25 Euros ph overtime past 75 block hours
1,000 Euro accomodation allowance + transportation
This is per month
4,000 Euros = £3,364
Flybe F/O starts at £2,089 total before tax, no o/t, no living, pay your own fuel!!!!
3,300 Euros
700 Euros allowances
25 Euros ph overtime past 75 block hours
1,000 Euro accomodation allowance + transportation
This is per month
4,000 Euros = £3,364
Flybe F/O starts at £2,089 total before tax, no o/t, no living, pay your own fuel!!!!
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NSF - no offence meant, but I suspect that most captains don't want to work for Easyjet. I certainly don't. If I did I would have applied years ago. However, I am pretty sure that most f/o's would bite your hand off.
As Deskpilot says, a few changes to T's and C's and the disposal of the paddle steamers could make Flybe a good place to work. I for one am committed to staying and trying to make things better.
As Deskpilot says, a few changes to T's and C's and the disposal of the paddle steamers could make Flybe a good place to work. I for one am committed to staying and trying to make things better.
Last edited by Q400 Pilot; 18th Feb 2011 at 18:51.
L'enfant Terrible
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I think the point that NSF is trying to make is more about the disparity in rates of pay between the two companies. I'm not saying we should get everything the EZY guys do, but we certainly deserve a damn sight more than this.
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Let the fun begin! But rest assured were not gonna settle for anything other than a realistic deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting times!
O and the Engineers and Cabin crew are standing by for a similar deal!
Interesting times!
O and the Engineers and Cabin crew are standing by for a similar deal!
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Again cannot agree, I do not think we are standing by for a good 'realistic' deal here, I think after the management tour of the bases they will have found out that actually there are a lot of people that would have gone for the payrise but not the scheduling. Do not be surprised to see a simple pay offer, similar to the one already offered, accepted!
It is not what we are hoping for but I am sure from what I have heard in more than one crewroom it is what will be accepted. Shame.
It is not what we are hoping for but I am sure from what I have heard in more than one crewroom it is what will be accepted. Shame.
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You're right cutoff.
For me the payrise offered was "reasonable" (apart from RPI + 0.5 in year 3, which isn't a payrise), it could have been better of course. But the scheduling part of it is taking the piss, they may as well not have bothered.
NSF
You say that EJ may open up recruitment to the masses towards the end of the year, do they not need the pilots now with the impending summer schedule? Do you actually think this is likely to happen? If so great, they'd be able to source most of their pilots from Flybe, there will be an exodus on Biblical proportions if that is the case.
For me the payrise offered was "reasonable" (apart from RPI + 0.5 in year 3, which isn't a payrise), it could have been better of course. But the scheduling part of it is taking the piss, they may as well not have bothered.
NSF
You say that EJ may open up recruitment to the masses towards the end of the year, do they not need the pilots now with the impending summer schedule? Do you actually think this is likely to happen? If so great, they'd be able to source most of their pilots from Flybe, there will be an exodus on Biblical proportions if that is the case.
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Cutoff, with regard to captains leaving, you are probably right and in a way I hope you are. The only thing that would really improve our T's and C's would be if the company actually believed that they were about to lose skippers in significant numbers.
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Slightly off topic, but certainly related is the subject of ex-Bacons and their red-ringed pay.
Hands up all those who thought the "red-ring" would eventually bring about pay parity between "us" and "them"?
I sure did, but apparently not. It seems that it goes like this:
in Bacon when promoted from RHS to LHS you stayed on the same paypoint (eg 5 year FO gets promoted gets paid at PP 5 on the command scale). Now if (when) they get onto the Flybe Jet fleet they keep that paypoint, so a Capt who joined Bacon 10 years ago in the RHS and got promoted after 5 years will be on PP 10 on the Flybe scale, whereas a JE/BE original following the same path will be on PP 5 a difference of nearly 4 grand. Presumably this applies to those ex-Bacons that are already on the jet as well.
So we'll never be equal - JE/BE/Flybe originals will always be the poor relations.
Hands up all those who thought the "red-ring" would eventually bring about pay parity between "us" and "them"?
I sure did, but apparently not. It seems that it goes like this:
in Bacon when promoted from RHS to LHS you stayed on the same paypoint (eg 5 year FO gets promoted gets paid at PP 5 on the command scale). Now if (when) they get onto the Flybe Jet fleet they keep that paypoint, so a Capt who joined Bacon 10 years ago in the RHS and got promoted after 5 years will be on PP 10 on the Flybe scale, whereas a JE/BE original following the same path will be on PP 5 a difference of nearly 4 grand. Presumably this applies to those ex-Bacons that are already on the jet as well.
So we'll never be equal - JE/BE/Flybe originals will always be the poor relations.
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Yep, I am red-ringed so salary decreased dramatically over last years, no annual increments. Some original BE mates thought I would still get the increments but no way....
But let's hope we ALL stand together for netter pay across the whole workforce!
I like Flybe but it wouldn't take long on these payscales that FO's have to do extra jobs outside of flying, who would then look after me on my old day when I miss something? Not the FO who is half a sleep after his cut-short weekend where he did a bar job. (sound too familiar like A north American situation)
But let's hope we ALL stand together for netter pay across the whole workforce!
I like Flybe but it wouldn't take long on these payscales that FO's have to do extra jobs outside of flying, who would then look after me on my old day when I miss something? Not the FO who is half a sleep after his cut-short weekend where he did a bar job. (sound too familiar like A north American situation)
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can we leave any industrial action until after lunch next fri so I can get back to the Rock please?
Oh, and the first weeks in March and April are a bit inconvenient.
Joking apart, it would be interesting to see what impact strike action would have on some of the more dependent communities such as Mann. Especially in an election year.
Oh, and the first weeks in March and April are a bit inconvenient.
Joking apart, it would be interesting to see what impact strike action would have on some of the more dependent communities such as Mann. Especially in an election year.