easyJet. Having a laugh.
Originally Posted by NSF
No one is saying they like the current FO deal - it is, however, NOT pay-to-fly and you seem unable to grasp that.
The CTC Cadets have paid for their training through the CTC programme, just like many others from years gone by who were given full-time contracts in the various associated airlines (including EZY). Now, instead, they are being asked to contribute towards the Airbus TR (effectively a semi-SSTR, if you like), when in the past it was fully subsidised. Once completed, they are employed as a contractor through CTC and PAID for their work. Yes, the pay is sh*te and the conditions are crap, but they are being paid. Essentially it's the same as Ryanair have been doing to low-houred guys with Brookfield for the last few years, so why the sudden incrimination of the ex-CTC guys at EZY when it had become a pretty much accepted practice on the blue-and-yellow side?
Nobody likes to see anyone paying to be in the right-hand seat, I deplore it as much as the next person, but I am sick to death of hearing the CTC Cadets, who are being PAID, tarred with the same brush as people who are PAYING. Sadly, it seems no matter how many times one points out this small technicality, it is drowned out by the masses of indignant people waving their arms decrying the advent of "P2F, P2F!!!" in an almost zombie-like fashion. So there is nothing else to do other than echo NSF's sentiments when he says to the likes of GW...
Originally Posted by NSF
you are simply talking utter rubbish.
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Zippy
You say its "essentially" the same as the Ryanair guys on the Brookfield contract. The Ryanair guys on average coming through now are earning 3 to 4 k per month when line checked. 35 euros per hour during line training.
I believe the Easyjet guys joining now are not even earning close to that. Even in the winter months the average Brookfield pilot picks up 40 to 60 hours. The top rate as an f/o on the Brookfield contract at the moment is near 80 euros per hour.
I would'nt say it's the same deal money wise?
Would you agree?
Roughly how much are the Easyjet guys coming through at the moment earning?
I believe the Easyjet guys joining now are not even earning close to that. Even in the winter months the average Brookfield pilot picks up 40 to 60 hours. The top rate as an f/o on the Brookfield contract at the moment is near 80 euros per hour.
I would'nt say it's the same deal money wise?
Would you agree?
Roughly how much are the Easyjet guys coming through at the moment earning?
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Originally posted by Zippy Monster
Once completed, they are employed as a contractor through CTC and PAID for their work. Yes, the pay is sh*te and the conditions are crap, but they are being paid
Once completed, they are employed as a contractor through CTC and PAID for their work. Yes, the pay is sh*te and the conditions are crap, but they are being paid
Originally Posted by Global Warrior
If the candidates that are there now are from the pool of "pilots" that are actually P2F "cadets" who have been languishing on the dole for the past 8 months......... thats still P2F products you are flying with........ even though they have been offered a package that would make a burger chef at Mac Donalds walk out.
If the candidates that are there now are from the pool of "pilots" that are actually P2F "cadets" who have been languishing on the dole for the past 8 months......... thats still P2F products you are flying with........ even though they have been offered a package that would make a burger chef at Mac Donalds walk out.
Originally posted by Zippy Monster
Nobody likes to see anyone paying to be in the right-hand seat, I deplore it as much as the next person
Nobody likes to see anyone paying to be in the right-hand seat, I deplore it as much as the next person
Originally posted by NSF
robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job
robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job
I have already declared my hand......... I want to help make this a better profession. I actively want to help undo all the shyte that through their neglect of the profession the selfish, egotistical, spineless, apathetic, eunuchs have allowed their employers to get away with.
Its the profession that Easyjet Training Captains and Easyjet Pilots (But All professional Pilots, not just those mentioned) represent that i am interested in. Not them as an individual unit. I have no beef with them personally but once they start spouting off like adolescents that its now affecting me so lets all rally behind me and save me........... you know there is a massive problem with those in the industry, that are allegedly BALPA members but somehow think BALPA is there to represent them as individuals. Theres no me in BALPA!!!
And for clarity's sake.... P2F.... P4T......semi SSTR.........BBC.....ITV.......whatever...... I use P2F because its easy (no pun intended). One of your employees actively makes money selling it and the professional Pilots community identify with it. There are Easy TC's who want to call it something else, who want a strict definition so it doesnt tar them. FINE call it what you want but to me..... GEAR DOWN, WHEELS DOWN, DANGLE THE DUNLOPS....... results in the same thing. P2F, P4T, semi-SSTR results in TWO things.......... INCREASE RISK TO THE TRAVELLING PUBLIC AND AN EROSION OF YOUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS and you have actively promoted the former and been totally apathetic to the latter...... an now its affecting individuals, (the me me's) they want BALPAS help.
This thread is titled easyjet. Having a Laugh and was originally started due to contract Captains, which in essence is about your T's&C's. If you want to bring this into the public forums rather than keeping it on your own, you have to be prepared for an opinion which is different to yours. The sooner you take your orange tinted glasses off you will see that there is a whole world out there....... and just maybe, its there on your side, but it wants a solution which is much bigger than just a solution for you.
Originally posted by Global Warrior
the only way to make this profession great again is to fix it from the bottom........... and like a pyramid, unless those at the top support those at the bottom, the bottom crumbles away and before you know it, the top is now the new bottom. As long as we have 5000 hour pilots sitting on the dole and 250 hour pilots sitting in the flight deck, things need changing.
the only way to make this profession great again is to fix it from the bottom........... and like a pyramid, unless those at the top support those at the bottom, the bottom crumbles away and before you know it, the top is now the new bottom. As long as we have 5000 hour pilots sitting on the dole and 250 hour pilots sitting in the flight deck, things need changing.
GW
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This will stir up a whirlwind, but as a non pilot looking in, reading what some pilots 'think' they are worth, feel that I must make these comments.
Why does it seem that some pilots believe that the current market conditions do not apply to them, as stated there are many long hour captains sitting around un-employed as well as younger low hour pilots, and if YOU ran an airline and need a pilot and had the choice of a 5000 hr who will cost 8 - 10 grand a month, against a 250 - 300 hr pilot, costing 3 - 4 grand, who will achieve the same end result, who would you utilise ?
As in a lot of markets at the moment there is an over load of pilots in the system, so airline management can offer lower wages as there will always be applicants, guys that cannot afford to sit on high horses complaining that the offer is crap (while they are in employment), these other guys have families, mortgages, bills to pay, bank managers to keep happy, all the usual stuff, so they NEED a job and are willing to take anything for an income. As they say ' While you are employed you can always look for alternatives'.
So it seems that some of you would not get out of bed for 4500-5000 a month plus extras, as a contracted pilot because a burger flipper can get that (he wishes, divide that by at least 4). The perks of contracting and having a good accountant can make that amount worth a lot more than having permenant employment and it leaves you in control of your options.
Another point about wages, next time you talk to your engineers ask them what their basic wages are, before London weighting, shift pay, approval pay and overtime for a 40 hour week (burger flipper divided by @3). You definitely would not be getting out of bed for that amount - and you would not need to, without them.
As in most industries these days, the accountants rule the roost, with bottom line figures and payments to share holders taking priority, gone are the days of elitist pilots, they are now employees, just like the rest, there to do a job and justifying the amount they are getting paid.
Sorry if this upsets a few people, but as an 'unregistered ' unemployed, because of small pension and part time working wife, not entitled to benefits, aircraft mechanic, that some think they are worth more than is offered, try unemployment for real, then see if these offers seem so low.
Why does it seem that some pilots believe that the current market conditions do not apply to them, as stated there are many long hour captains sitting around un-employed as well as younger low hour pilots, and if YOU ran an airline and need a pilot and had the choice of a 5000 hr who will cost 8 - 10 grand a month, against a 250 - 300 hr pilot, costing 3 - 4 grand, who will achieve the same end result, who would you utilise ?
As in a lot of markets at the moment there is an over load of pilots in the system, so airline management can offer lower wages as there will always be applicants, guys that cannot afford to sit on high horses complaining that the offer is crap (while they are in employment), these other guys have families, mortgages, bills to pay, bank managers to keep happy, all the usual stuff, so they NEED a job and are willing to take anything for an income. As they say ' While you are employed you can always look for alternatives'.
So it seems that some of you would not get out of bed for 4500-5000 a month plus extras, as a contracted pilot because a burger flipper can get that (he wishes, divide that by at least 4). The perks of contracting and having a good accountant can make that amount worth a lot more than having permenant employment and it leaves you in control of your options.
Another point about wages, next time you talk to your engineers ask them what their basic wages are, before London weighting, shift pay, approval pay and overtime for a 40 hour week (burger flipper divided by @3). You definitely would not be getting out of bed for that amount - and you would not need to, without them.
As in most industries these days, the accountants rule the roost, with bottom line figures and payments to share holders taking priority, gone are the days of elitist pilots, they are now employees, just like the rest, there to do a job and justifying the amount they are getting paid.
Sorry if this upsets a few people, but as an 'unregistered ' unemployed, because of small pension and part time working wife, not entitled to benefits, aircraft mechanic, that some think they are worth more than is offered, try unemployment for real, then see if these offers seem so low.
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On most of the above I can broadly agree with you except . . . . . if you had sat alongside enough of them for long enough , you would not make the assertion that a 250-300hr pilot will "achieve the same end result" as a 5000hr one.
Some days, on some flights, with some Capt's alongside him Yes, but is by no means a foregone conclusion trust me
If you are sat in the back, who would you prefer to become your Capt if the old sod in the left pegs it ? answer that one honestly and you dissprove your argument, but of course, as you say, management don't care as long as the legalities are OK, but the public (if they educated themselves) SHOULD
Some days, on some flights, with some Capt's alongside him Yes, but is by no means a foregone conclusion trust me
If you are sat in the back, who would you prefer to become your Capt if the old sod in the left pegs it ? answer that one honestly and you dissprove your argument, but of course, as you say, management don't care as long as the legalities are OK, but the public (if they educated themselves) SHOULD
Sleep well :-)
GW I think you misunderstand my point. For a start, I don't know what you're alluding to with your the first two quotes in your post (quoting me then you.) I've been following the thread since the beginning, since the issues that were first being discussed stand to affect people like me a great deal.
And for clarity's sake.... P2F.... P4T......semi SSTR.........BBC.....ITV.......whatever...... I use P2F because its easy
The reason the easyJet TCs want to call it something else is because it IS different. As I have said before, those coming through from the CTC Cadet course are the same people who, before things were changed drastically by management, would have come out, done their 6 months' apprenticeship and then been given a full-time contract of employment, on the same T&Cs as everyone else, like those before them. By the time the changes were made, and they had to accept employment on a contractor basis, it was too late for them to pull out of the course. The alternative was to go bankrupt. As I said, the contractor pay is awful, but they are still being paid, they are not paying to be there. Can you see the difference?
Or maybe I should put it this way, as a question. GW, when you hear/use the term "P2F cadet", what is your understanding of their terms and conditions, and the route they took into the airline? What exactly are you referring to using that term?
P2F, P4T, semi-SSTR results in TWO things.......... INCREASE RISK TO THE TRAVELLING PUBLIC...
I would be more concerned, as an F/O, about flying with short-term contractors in the left seat, who won't be company-minded, won't bother to learn the OMs properly, and will fly "their way". The very people this thread was about in the first place. If you ask me, this is a much bigger risk to the travelling public than a low-hour F/O flying with an experienced captain.
... AND AN EROSION OF YOUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS and you have actively promoted the former and been totally apathetic to the latter...... an now its affecting individuals, (the me me's) they want BALPAS help.
For what it's worth, as a BALPA member, I tried to seek their help when I was affected as a low-hour cadet F/O a few years back, and BALPA wasn't really interested (in fact I found the eventual response from one of the reps insulting.)
The sooner you take your orange tinted glasses off you will see that there is a whole world out there....... and just maybe, its there on your side, but it wants a solution which is much bigger than just a solution for you.
I repeat, my only problem is with the fact you demonise the CTC Cadets, erroneously labelling them "P2F", when in reality there is a world of difference between paying for training and paying to actually fly 'on the line'.
Originally Posted by go around flap15
I would'nt say it's the same deal money wise?
Would you agree?
Would you agree?
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'answer that one honestly and you dissprove your argument, but of course, as you say, management don't care as long as the legalities are OK, but the public'
Actually you proved my reasoning when you mention 'management' and not crew, same as I did when writing.The legalities are met, on the cheap, bean counters happy.
I understand what you mean when things go 'tits' you need a proficent stand in, and as 'walk on freight' I understand that more than 99% of fellow travellers who would never give this situation a second thought. After all to them it is a bus that flies and two drivers up front, more than enough to get us to the destination and things only happen to other people don't they).
Actually you proved my reasoning when you mention 'management' and not crew, same as I did when writing.The legalities are met, on the cheap, bean counters happy.
I understand what you mean when things go 'tits' you need a proficent stand in, and as 'walk on freight' I understand that more than 99% of fellow travellers who would never give this situation a second thought. After all to them it is a bus that flies and two drivers up front, more than enough to get us to the destination and things only happen to other people don't they).
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Hi Zippy
Im always happy to be put in my place with regards to definitions
I did ask NSF a while back to explain the difference, but he declined.
With regards to the CTC thing. My assumption, which is where we may have the greatest level of misunderstanding, is that these guys were P2F people in the past, who have completed their TR and done their P2F 150-300 hours already...... last summer or whenever.... and have since been in a pool waiting for contract work or a permanent job and these are the guys that are going to be on contract this year.
MY point....... and this is not directed at any company in particular......... is that P2F schemes do exist. If they exist in ANY company, i think there is a degradation of Safety in that company. And once one company gets away with it, others follow. And being somewhat cynical i bet that airlines that have to make redundancies do so with a little over 6 months away from when they need to start ramping up again for the summer season so they can recruit contractors. ( I stand to be corrected on employment law)
One of the problems you/easy will always have is that J CRUD appears to be an Easy TC and therefore, if it looks like s**t and it smells like s**t, people are always going to interpret it as s**t. After all his little side line business is obviously VERY familiar with the P2F cancer as has been alluded to by NSF in a previous post
All of these schemes have been designed to get inexperienced and therefore cheaper people into the cockpit and now it looks as though contractors are going to be used as Captains instead of promoting within......(again, please correct me) and no one seems to give a stuff about the safety implications.
Apologies, i didnt mean it to come across like that.......... its was more a result of the frustration i feel when people only seem to want to get involved when it affects them...... not those below them.... and again thats not pointed at you.... more of a general comment.
Presumably, you must have a very flat head
Anyway i'll PM you as hopefully you can help me with something loosly related.
Regards
GW
Im always happy to be put in my place with regards to definitions
I did ask NSF a while back to explain the difference, but he declined.With regards to the CTC thing. My assumption, which is where we may have the greatest level of misunderstanding, is that these guys were P2F people in the past, who have completed their TR and done their P2F 150-300 hours already...... last summer or whenever.... and have since been in a pool waiting for contract work or a permanent job and these are the guys that are going to be on contract this year.
MY point....... and this is not directed at any company in particular......... is that P2F schemes do exist. If they exist in ANY company, i think there is a degradation of Safety in that company. And once one company gets away with it, others follow. And being somewhat cynical i bet that airlines that have to make redundancies do so with a little over 6 months away from when they need to start ramping up again for the summer season so they can recruit contractors. ( I stand to be corrected on employment law)
One of the problems you/easy will always have is that J CRUD appears to be an Easy TC and therefore, if it looks like s**t and it smells like s**t, people are always going to interpret it as s**t. After all his little side line business is obviously VERY familiar with the P2F cancer as has been alluded to by NSF in a previous post
All of these schemes have been designed to get inexperienced and therefore cheaper people into the cockpit and now it looks as though contractors are going to be used as Captains instead of promoting within......(again, please correct me) and no one seems to give a stuff about the safety implications.
Please don't patronise me. Do you think I don't know this already?! I can assure you my glasses are not in the slightest bit 'orange-tinted'. I'd love to explain in more detail............
Finally, now it's affecting others, eyes are slowly beginning to open.
Anyway i'll PM you as hopefully you can help me with something loosly related.
Regards
GW
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Whilst not really a comment on MY personal views here, I can't believe noone has used the opportunity to highlight the similarities between the current "frantic discussion, lack of action" and the life of Brian, by Monty Python....
Back on topic. GW, I think you're partially right...there are undoubtedly some waiting on contracts at easy who did previously do the P2F scheme. However, my take on the current group [of F/Os] under discussion is that these are the latest CTC or Oxford guys, who have been offered a contract to fly, ex-abinitio training, on terrible terms after funding their type rating and a portion of their initial line training.
The deal is terrible, truly awful, but they are at least being PAID to fly. Just not much. Therein lies the distinction.
However the one thing I have to take umbridge at is this concept that anyone who is unemployed on x thousand hours MUST be employed before any low hour pilot. I don't think there's many of us low hour guys that would think we're anything more than past the point of being a complete beginner, but at the same time there's plenty, PLENTY of experienced guys out there that simply should not be allowed anywhere near a commercial aircraft. Any business needs a constant stream of workers at the differing stages to ensure smooth continuity.
If low hour guys and girls are REALLY a problem in terms of capability, then change the sodding regs. MAKE it 800 hours or whatever before you can fly commercially. Don't whinge that they're not capable...After all every single grizzled old 20000+ hour captain out there once had only 250 hours in their logbook. Perhaps the experience of the subsequent 19750+ hours has shown just how little they knew at 250, but remember that you were once there as well...
Finally...glad to see there's finally some recognition that lack of concern for the 250hrs mob is what allowed p2f to spring up in the first instance...you fail to maintain the foundations of the house (Pyramid!) then and sooner or later the house will come down....
JUDITH: They've dragged him off! They're going to crucify him!
REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!
REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!
The deal is terrible, truly awful, but they are at least being PAID to fly. Just not much. Therein lies the distinction.
However the one thing I have to take umbridge at is this concept that anyone who is unemployed on x thousand hours MUST be employed before any low hour pilot. I don't think there's many of us low hour guys that would think we're anything more than past the point of being a complete beginner, but at the same time there's plenty, PLENTY of experienced guys out there that simply should not be allowed anywhere near a commercial aircraft. Any business needs a constant stream of workers at the differing stages to ensure smooth continuity.
If low hour guys and girls are REALLY a problem in terms of capability, then change the sodding regs. MAKE it 800 hours or whatever before you can fly commercially. Don't whinge that they're not capable...After all every single grizzled old 20000+ hour captain out there once had only 250 hours in their logbook. Perhaps the experience of the subsequent 19750+ hours has shown just how little they knew at 250, but remember that you were once there as well...
Finally...glad to see there's finally some recognition that lack of concern for the 250hrs mob is what allowed p2f to spring up in the first instance...you fail to maintain the foundations of the house (Pyramid!) then and sooner or later the house will come down....
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Zippy, I agree your lot have been royally mucked about.
However, CTC cadets chose to get involved and were SOLD a product. The prize was a full time job with EZY - but only after LST and 6 months line training (the "pay" was some £6k paid back out of your original investment). Some of you had debts nearing £120k after CTC approved training and living expenses.
Others were let go after the 6 months and worked bar/burger flipping jobs. Then when another Gatwick based A320 airline showed interest, CTC blocked movement so they could "employ" you for another 6 months on minimal wages with EZY.
This is as much P2F as anything else on the market. Only worse - you can't apply for other jobs because you have a CTC contract!
Here then is the new "self improver"/"hour builder" route except it costs x5 more than the old CAA 700h licence and ends with a mafia style "job".
Lack of Flying currency creates a greater dependency on the P1. The P1 (even a contract one) is the person ultimately responsible for the flight - not the FO.
Acmech - as one who has worked as an engineer, and been unemployed several times I still think folk are right to fight for better Ts&Cs. Why should experienced folk be overlooked from a safety standpoint (e.g: Over a hundred UK based Boeing pilots from Globespan, TUifly etc).
Some things require more moral fibre. Taking any old job (and I've worked as a welder and in other low paid jobs) is survival but it isn't the only issue - professionalism requires encouragement.
Lewis Hamilton may in many eyes be a youngster but he started his apprenticeship in 1993 in karting. He did not start driving F1 cars till 2007. If F1 P2D were available do you think he'd be as good a driver at age 16? I doubt it.
As for requiring at least 800h to fly commercially - this is now going through congress in the USA and was the case in Europe up until JAR regs in the late 1990s.
Low houred schemes are fairly recent and occurred because of these regs and schools offering their "approved" and very expensive courses. Yes BA had low houred cadets but they took 8+ years to reach command and often started on Turboprop regionals.
Change will come when regulators, insurance companies and the Public wake up to the mess we are in.
However, CTC cadets chose to get involved and were SOLD a product. The prize was a full time job with EZY - but only after LST and 6 months line training (the "pay" was some £6k paid back out of your original investment). Some of you had debts nearing £120k after CTC approved training and living expenses.
Others were let go after the 6 months and worked bar/burger flipping jobs. Then when another Gatwick based A320 airline showed interest, CTC blocked movement so they could "employ" you for another 6 months on minimal wages with EZY.
This is as much P2F as anything else on the market. Only worse - you can't apply for other jobs because you have a CTC contract!
Here then is the new "self improver"/"hour builder" route except it costs x5 more than the old CAA 700h licence and ends with a mafia style "job".
Lack of Flying currency creates a greater dependency on the P1. The P1 (even a contract one) is the person ultimately responsible for the flight - not the FO.
Acmech - as one who has worked as an engineer, and been unemployed several times I still think folk are right to fight for better Ts&Cs. Why should experienced folk be overlooked from a safety standpoint (e.g: Over a hundred UK based Boeing pilots from Globespan, TUifly etc).
Some things require more moral fibre. Taking any old job (and I've worked as a welder and in other low paid jobs) is survival but it isn't the only issue - professionalism requires encouragement.
Lewis Hamilton may in many eyes be a youngster but he started his apprenticeship in 1993 in karting. He did not start driving F1 cars till 2007. If F1 P2D were available do you think he'd be as good a driver at age 16? I doubt it.
As for requiring at least 800h to fly commercially - this is now going through congress in the USA and was the case in Europe up until JAR regs in the late 1990s.
Low houred schemes are fairly recent and occurred because of these regs and schools offering their "approved" and very expensive courses. Yes BA had low houred cadets but they took 8+ years to reach command and often started on Turboprop regionals.
Change will come when regulators, insurance companies and the Public wake up to the mess we are in.
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I wasn't going to contribute to this but here is what I may know.
This year:
EZY have taken on OAA cadets who are effectively PTF, but then put on a flexicrew contract for the summer.
They have also taken experienced CTC CPs/FOs on, on an hourly rate being paid, not much I know, but being paid nonetheless.
They have also taken on experienced FOs on a contract through Parc, and offered some with full ATPLs and c.1000+ on type permanent contracts of employment from 1st November 2010 with a signed letter of intent.
Only the OAA cadets are PTF/P4T etc.
There may be a light at the end of the tunnel
This year:
EZY have taken on OAA cadets who are effectively PTF, but then put on a flexicrew contract for the summer.
They have also taken experienced CTC CPs/FOs on, on an hourly rate being paid, not much I know, but being paid nonetheless.
They have also taken on experienced FOs on a contract through Parc, and offered some with full ATPLs and c.1000+ on type permanent contracts of employment from 1st November 2010 with a signed letter of intent.
Only the OAA cadets are PTF/P4T etc.
There may be a light at the end of the tunnel
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SinBin
Thanks for contributing.
BUT!! In your world, the only light at the end of the Tunnel will be a Train. This is because if you think that anything that ezy have offered anyone this year is an improvement to anything, then you're nuts!!
Letter of intent? Not worth the paper it's written on I'm afraid. Why not skip the intentions, and offer a fulltime job right now?
I can give you 8 letters of intent here and now if you like.
P.I.S.S.T.A.K.E.
BUT!! In your world, the only light at the end of the Tunnel will be a Train. This is because if you think that anything that ezy have offered anyone this year is an improvement to anything, then you're nuts!!
Letter of intent? Not worth the paper it's written on I'm afraid. Why not skip the intentions, and offer a fulltime job right now?
I can give you 8 letters of intent here and now if you like.
P.I.S.S.T.A.K.E.
angelorange, I'm not disputing what you say about being sold the CTC 'product', etc. I was in that same boat, over 4 years ago now. I just want people to be clear about the distinction between the people who've come down that route and those that are literally paying to sit where they are sitting (the real "P2F", not the generalisation of "P2F" being made quite often on these forums). That was all.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with CTC blocking movement to another Gatwick-based airline. If you're referring to EI, a fair few ex-cadets did go there, most of them having being let go by Monarch at the end of 2008, and also a few that had done their 6 months with EZY. CTC didn't block that route, in fact they were more than happy to see the cadets 'placed'.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with CTC blocking movement to another Gatwick-based airline. If you're referring to EI, a fair few ex-cadets did go there, most of them having being let go by Monarch at the end of 2008, and also a few that had done their 6 months with EZY. CTC didn't block that route, in fact they were more than happy to see the cadets 'placed'.
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start 9h00 (LT): interview, group exercise and technical test and should be finished by 18h00 (LT). The simulator selection will take place at another stage
...did I miss something...
...do all companies behave like this "airline", or is this just the outcome of an so-called "island-tantrum"...
...may be they have a big HR or "resourcing" department, and obviously plenty of manpower surplus, which have both to show that they are very, very, very essential depts. otherwise they would handle it more pragmatic, like all other real airlines.
...should I have a laugh...
Last edited by Airbus_a321; 3rd May 2010 at 14:11.
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Selection
Are you suggesting that slection for a 5 month contract should be any different from any other?
Surely an airline must maintain the same standards for everyone! I can only imagine the comments here on pprune that would follow if there was no selection!
If you dont feel that you are up to the task, I suggest that you dont go! I am sure that someone, somewhere in the world will welcome the opportunity to have you fly their aircraft without ever having looked at you, both for your flying abilities and your personality.
There is always the last resort, if you dont agree with something, dont do it! I believe this contract is something voluntary, I do not believe that anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to go!
Surely an airline must maintain the same standards for everyone! I can only imagine the comments here on pprune that would follow if there was no selection!
If you dont feel that you are up to the task, I suggest that you dont go! I am sure that someone, somewhere in the world will welcome the opportunity to have you fly their aircraft without ever having looked at you, both for your flying abilities and your personality.
There is always the last resort, if you dont agree with something, dont do it! I believe this contract is something voluntary, I do not believe that anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to go!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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highflyer: obviously you dont have any clue about contract-business. So better go back, and be very lucky about your permanent position and dont comment contract-business.
contract-business is extremly hard business and its nothing for milksops.
contract-business is extremly hard business and its nothing for milksops.
