View Poll Results: Pilots perception/experiences of BALPA's performance?
BALPA Member - Considering ending membership.
170
18.97%
BALPA Member - Not impressed / No alternative.
146
16.29%
BALPA Member - They could do better but content.
168
18.75%
BALPA Member - Very Impressed.
76
8.48%
Former member - Cancelled due cost / not value for money.
38
4.24%
Former member - Cancelled due bad experience.
86
9.60%
Former member - Cancelled out of touch / not effective
93
10.38%
Never had membership - Impressed
11
1.23%
Never had membership - Not impressed.
108
12.05%
Voters: 896. This poll is closed
Poll: BALPA's Performance - Vote
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Member - Impressed (because we have an excellent CC) - But maybe this says more about my colleagues. I hope not. Because if this is the case, this industry is totally shagged. But I'll repeat what I have said elsewhere, the only realistic union voice we have is BALPA. It will be what you want it to be, but only if you participate. There are no passengers!
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The mainline British Unions didn't want to represent a bunch of perceived overpaid posh snobs but these days the difference in salaries between, for sake of comparison, an Inter City Train Driver & a non-BA Airline Captain has diminished to almost parity.
So my 2 questions to the forum are:
Would a modern day Airline Pilot's concerns & fears for their safety, security & futures be better represented by an organisation such as the Transport & General Workers Union? I favour this as FlyGlobespan's HR department hated having to 'deal' with the T&GWU in disputes with Groundstaff & Cabin Crew & generally got their asses kicked by the Union.
And is it the right time time to approach a bigger union when, outside-BA, our terms & conditions are being reduced to the point of apathy & ridicule?
Discuss.
So my 2 questions to the forum are:
Would a modern day Airline Pilot's concerns & fears for their safety, security & futures be better represented by an organisation such as the Transport & General Workers Union? I favour this as FlyGlobespan's HR department hated having to 'deal' with the T&GWU in disputes with Groundstaff & Cabin Crew & generally got their asses kicked by the Union.
And is it the right time time to approach a bigger union when, outside-BA, our terms & conditions are being reduced to the point of apathy & ridicule?
Discuss.
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I'll contact a moderator to ask if its possible, thanks Adios.
Email sent to Jetdriver asking if its possible to have a dedicated poll thread, awaiting response.
Email sent to Jetdriver asking if its possible to have a dedicated poll thread, awaiting response.
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 16th Feb 2010 at 20:27.
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BALPA member - sticking with it.
Daddy-Oh, a couple of years ago at, if memory serves me, MyTravel a sizeable number wanted to go down the TGWU route and in fact one or two did join. Subs were considerably cheaper and things looked quite good. However, when push came to shove the TGWU advised the group that they would not allow them to join as it would be seen as poaching members from an already established union in the airline industry.
Been royally dumped on by BALPA twice but until someone comes up with a better and cheaper alternative them I am going to have to stay in. Until that day I will support my CC in the way I would hope they would support me if it came to it.
Daddy-Oh, a couple of years ago at, if memory serves me, MyTravel a sizeable number wanted to go down the TGWU route and in fact one or two did join. Subs were considerably cheaper and things looked quite good. However, when push came to shove the TGWU advised the group that they would not allow them to join as it would be seen as poaching members from an already established union in the airline industry.
Been royally dumped on by BALPA twice but until someone comes up with a better and cheaper alternative them I am going to have to stay in. Until that day I will support my CC in the way I would hope they would support me if it came to it.
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It's your association, make it work for you!
Firstly, just to make clear, I'm not employed by BALPA, I'm a serving airline pillot for a UK charter operator and just happen to be have elected by BALPA members within my airline to represent their interests with our company.
A lot of bollocks is talked about BALPA, on this website especially.
For the benefit of MoT, let's look at the financial figures quoted. I have never bothered to look at BALPA accounts and I have no idea why anyone would bother printing them out and attaching them to a crew room wall.
Looking at the £690k figure for expenses, salaries and offices. Firstly expenses. I suspect most of them go on reps like me. Our airline has 10+ bases around the UK and I spend quite a lot of time on the road serving my members. To do this I'm reimbursed for my mileage, the odd flight and reasonable sustenance. All of these are paid by BALPA and I reckon I cost about £500 a month, i.e. £6000 per year just one me. I wouldn't be surprised if many Company Councils cost £50k+ in expenses alone.
Don't for a moment I'm making money on this deal. I lose thousands every year in flight pay and allowances.
The BALPA office is now on Heathrow Blvd. It's a modern office building but nothing extravigant and to be honest is only just big enough. It houses all the office staff, which in the main are just there to support the activities of reps like me and most couldn't be considered high earners under any circumstances. At the top, the General Secretary is on a fair whack, but still only on a middling LHS jet salary.
As for defending members, this is the bread and butter for us reps and the most important thing we do. I have no idea which budget this comes from, but we rarely have to call in the lawyers as our relationship with our company means we don't have to and in any case BALPA head office usually has enough legal experience not to need to call the solicitors on a regular basis.
It's a shame there appears so much dissatisfaction with the association. As is often noted it's a member driven organisation. Dysfunctional airlines tend to have dysfunctional company councils, and these are when makes the difference in member's experience of BALPA. This may explain some of the vitriol and bile displayed on these pages.
I would like to think the high levels of membership within my airline reflect the standard of service we provide.
Pilots as a generalisation are self motivated and dare I say selfish individuals, who tend to look to others to make a difference. Many of the comments on Prune reflect this and anyone reading them should bear this in mind. Also, the larger airlines mostly have very active forums through the BALPA website and this is where the adult debate takes place; they aren't anonymous and any statement made must be against your real name. It's all very easy to talk tough with the cloak on anonymity...
I entirely agree that BALPA has been utterly gutless when it comes to dealing with pay as you fly type arrangements. I think it's finally starting to rouse, and hope it's too late. To balance this, as I mentioned in my previous paragraph, it's easy to talk tough when sat anonymously in front of a keyboard, but would you really have the balls to go on strike over it? I'm not sure you would.
Does anyone honestly believe that industry terms and conditions be any worse if BALPA didn't exist? In my company, not a week goes by were the management doesn't try to take something from us or dilute what we have. Our Company Council is the only thing stopping them. And we're one of the better companies in the industry.
My final thought is this, if we all decide to be non-members, eventually all of us will be blind.
A lot of bollocks is talked about BALPA, on this website especially.
For the benefit of MoT, let's look at the financial figures quoted. I have never bothered to look at BALPA accounts and I have no idea why anyone would bother printing them out and attaching them to a crew room wall.
Looking at the £690k figure for expenses, salaries and offices. Firstly expenses. I suspect most of them go on reps like me. Our airline has 10+ bases around the UK and I spend quite a lot of time on the road serving my members. To do this I'm reimbursed for my mileage, the odd flight and reasonable sustenance. All of these are paid by BALPA and I reckon I cost about £500 a month, i.e. £6000 per year just one me. I wouldn't be surprised if many Company Councils cost £50k+ in expenses alone.
Don't for a moment I'm making money on this deal. I lose thousands every year in flight pay and allowances.
The BALPA office is now on Heathrow Blvd. It's a modern office building but nothing extravigant and to be honest is only just big enough. It houses all the office staff, which in the main are just there to support the activities of reps like me and most couldn't be considered high earners under any circumstances. At the top, the General Secretary is on a fair whack, but still only on a middling LHS jet salary.
As for defending members, this is the bread and butter for us reps and the most important thing we do. I have no idea which budget this comes from, but we rarely have to call in the lawyers as our relationship with our company means we don't have to and in any case BALPA head office usually has enough legal experience not to need to call the solicitors on a regular basis.
It's a shame there appears so much dissatisfaction with the association. As is often noted it's a member driven organisation. Dysfunctional airlines tend to have dysfunctional company councils, and these are when makes the difference in member's experience of BALPA. This may explain some of the vitriol and bile displayed on these pages.
I would like to think the high levels of membership within my airline reflect the standard of service we provide.
Pilots as a generalisation are self motivated and dare I say selfish individuals, who tend to look to others to make a difference. Many of the comments on Prune reflect this and anyone reading them should bear this in mind. Also, the larger airlines mostly have very active forums through the BALPA website and this is where the adult debate takes place; they aren't anonymous and any statement made must be against your real name. It's all very easy to talk tough with the cloak on anonymity...
I entirely agree that BALPA has been utterly gutless when it comes to dealing with pay as you fly type arrangements. I think it's finally starting to rouse, and hope it's too late. To balance this, as I mentioned in my previous paragraph, it's easy to talk tough when sat anonymously in front of a keyboard, but would you really have the balls to go on strike over it? I'm not sure you would.
Does anyone honestly believe that industry terms and conditions be any worse if BALPA didn't exist? In my company, not a week goes by were the management doesn't try to take something from us or dilute what we have. Our Company Council is the only thing stopping them. And we're one of the better companies in the industry.
My final thought is this, if we all decide to be non-members, eventually all of us will be blind.
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DADDY-OH!
As I posted on another thread yesterday -
I don't think it has anything to do with socio-economic groups, we all have aspirations, but had more to do with that union considering that you would be better represented elsewhere, the world of aviation is a very specialised field.
However, now that BASSA is a section within Unite and they represent CC outside of BA they may be up for accommodating pilots, you would have to ask. I am a total outsider in this but a long standing union person and would take the view that the old dog has to be very sick before you make the decision to put it down. if it is not then the only medication can be an input of members who are willing to become active rather than passively demand. That includes asking how your money is spent and especially focussing on how you deliver protection and representation to members. Perhaps Unite has greater experience in that delivery and perhaps BALPA could ask them for assistance, it is not unknown.
You may respond to this post by flaming me or agreeing, I would prefer that you do this within YOUR union.
Edited to add - I do not consider the IPA to be a realistic alternative.
TGWU is now called Unite after merging with several others, read it on their website or wiki.
I have long been an advocate of BALPA getting under the folds of Unite but, until that happens, I think that Unite would direct you to BALPA if you wished to join, my info may be out of date so don't take my word on it.
I have long been an advocate of BALPA getting under the folds of Unite but, until that happens, I think that Unite would direct you to BALPA if you wished to join, my info may be out of date so don't take my word on it.
However, now that BASSA is a section within Unite and they represent CC outside of BA they may be up for accommodating pilots, you would have to ask. I am a total outsider in this but a long standing union person and would take the view that the old dog has to be very sick before you make the decision to put it down. if it is not then the only medication can be an input of members who are willing to become active rather than passively demand. That includes asking how your money is spent and especially focussing on how you deliver protection and representation to members. Perhaps Unite has greater experience in that delivery and perhaps BALPA could ask them for assistance, it is not unknown.
You may respond to this post by flaming me or agreeing, I would prefer that you do this within YOUR union.
Edited to add - I do not consider the IPA to be a realistic alternative.
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I can see possibilities with BALPA aligning with a much larger union. Part of the reason BALPA dues are high relative to other unions is due to it's lack of scale.
Whilst in some ways I admire BASSA, I would be very weary about being attached directly to it. Pilots are very different people from the majority of cabin crew and our interests are not always aligned: witness the current goings on in BA.
Agree with al446 that IPA certainly isn't the way to go. Completely the wrong direction in fact.
Whilst in some ways I admire BASSA, I would be very weary about being attached directly to it. Pilots are very different people from the majority of cabin crew and our interests are not always aligned: witness the current goings on in BA.
Agree with al446 that IPA certainly isn't the way to go. Completely the wrong direction in fact.
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BALPA is all we have. Ther is no other union that would work for us.
AS others have said WE are BALPA; if your reps have not succeeded to your satisfaction then become a rep and fight yourself. The most sensible statement here to date is NSF's,
You'd be called some choice names if you did that in the Army...
Equally, do not stand on the sidelines watching the battle and hope to win a porton of the returns for no expended effort. That is called sponging.
The ONLY way we can have a hope of making progress is by EVERYONE being a member, so we have the solidarity to move ahead. Failing to join or leaving in a fit of pique is just letting your oppos down. Simple as that.
AS others have said WE are BALPA; if your reps have not succeeded to your satisfaction then become a rep and fight yourself. The most sensible statement here to date is NSF's,
Do not just leave the field of battle until the rest of the warriors win the fight - no one is impressed by that.
Equally, do not stand on the sidelines watching the battle and hope to win a porton of the returns for no expended effort. That is called sponging.
The ONLY way we can have a hope of making progress is by EVERYONE being a member, so we have the solidarity to move ahead. Failing to join or leaving in a fit of pique is just letting your oppos down. Simple as that.
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Without wishing to comment on the poll as Dreamshiner has organised, I did wish to post a couple more thoughts here.
The very crux of the problem that people are complaining about is that BALPA is necessarily a grouping of individuals ostensibly acting under the same umbrella name to protect their own company interests - In effect each company CC is acting as an individual BALPA, perhaps a BALPA franchise. Ergo, the umbrella grouping does NOT serve the needs of the whole in any shape or form, only the individual parts. The most effective unions utilise the principle that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Think of it as CRM for unions...
It seems obvious to me that this is a major, major failing.
Is it beyond the wit of the Balpa general secretary to see this and therefore organise a superset of individual CCs - or perhaps retirees who have loved their career but are not quite ready for completely hang up their headsets just yet - to act as the representation for the industry as a whole. Perhaps focussing on the more salient points that affect all of us who are in training, trained but yet to find first job, trained and experienced or in work, rather than company specific issues which can continue to be dealt with by the current set up. Areas such as Flight time regulations, PTF, base qualifications, standards could/should be looked at and pressure/influencing directly applied to EASA or equivalents.
If this IS beyond the wit of BALPA to see or act on, then one can rightly question what the bloody hell the point is. Would you sign up for BALPA if it were actually BALPA - BA, BALPA - easyJet, BALPA - Thomas Cook etc
(i.e. obviously only one company)
All the time this piece of the puzzle is missing, individual companies can stretch and push the boundaries of their own environment, using and reacting to the wider economic picture to justify reductions or failure to re-instate. And as we all know, only rarely will company A offer better terms than company B if B is getting away with reducing T&Cs. There is NOTHING to stop them, other than a determined individual CC...but even then if Ts&Cs in the rest of the industry have reduced by 50% then even that group would have to admit they had no grounds to defend on.
Elected Rep - you mentioned that it's easy to talk tough under the cloak of anonymity. This is true. But it's also very reflective of another failing of the union - to restrict the bullying (for want of a better term) that this industry is riddled, absolutely riddled, with. People don't WANT to be known by their real names because they are well aware that speaking up can lead to "...I'll
your career" - especially when you're on the lower rungs of the ladder. This leads to further issues, because those with enough seniority to not have to worry about this any more enjoy the best Ts&Cs and are disinclined, generally, to rock the boat.
This malaise starts and spreads from the very base building blocks of ATPL ground school up to stories such as that recounted by Fokkerplod. This is the problem. "I'm alright Jack and screw the rest of you".
I applaud loud Dreamshiner's main comments that maybe, just maybe, the penny is dropping and people are starting to realise that looking out for number one has led to this horrendous situation. I thank him publicly for airing it and I pray that this continues and gathers pace. However it seems Balpa are again behind the drag curve and reacting, not pro-acting (is there such a verb?).
The very crux of the problem that people are complaining about is that BALPA is necessarily a grouping of individuals ostensibly acting under the same umbrella name to protect their own company interests - In effect each company CC is acting as an individual BALPA, perhaps a BALPA franchise. Ergo, the umbrella grouping does NOT serve the needs of the whole in any shape or form, only the individual parts. The most effective unions utilise the principle that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Think of it as CRM for unions...
It seems obvious to me that this is a major, major failing.
Is it beyond the wit of the Balpa general secretary to see this and therefore organise a superset of individual CCs - or perhaps retirees who have loved their career but are not quite ready for completely hang up their headsets just yet - to act as the representation for the industry as a whole. Perhaps focussing on the more salient points that affect all of us who are in training, trained but yet to find first job, trained and experienced or in work, rather than company specific issues which can continue to be dealt with by the current set up. Areas such as Flight time regulations, PTF, base qualifications, standards could/should be looked at and pressure/influencing directly applied to EASA or equivalents.
If this IS beyond the wit of BALPA to see or act on, then one can rightly question what the bloody hell the point is. Would you sign up for BALPA if it were actually BALPA - BA, BALPA - easyJet, BALPA - Thomas Cook etc
(i.e. obviously only one company)
All the time this piece of the puzzle is missing, individual companies can stretch and push the boundaries of their own environment, using and reacting to the wider economic picture to justify reductions or failure to re-instate. And as we all know, only rarely will company A offer better terms than company B if B is getting away with reducing T&Cs. There is NOTHING to stop them, other than a determined individual CC...but even then if Ts&Cs in the rest of the industry have reduced by 50% then even that group would have to admit they had no grounds to defend on.
Elected Rep - you mentioned that it's easy to talk tough under the cloak of anonymity. This is true. But it's also very reflective of another failing of the union - to restrict the bullying (for want of a better term) that this industry is riddled, absolutely riddled, with. People don't WANT to be known by their real names because they are well aware that speaking up can lead to "...I'll
your career" - especially when you're on the lower rungs of the ladder. This leads to further issues, because those with enough seniority to not have to worry about this any more enjoy the best Ts&Cs and are disinclined, generally, to rock the boat. This malaise starts and spreads from the very base building blocks of ATPL ground school up to stories such as that recounted by Fokkerplod. This is the problem. "I'm alright Jack and screw the rest of you".
I applaud loud Dreamshiner's main comments that maybe, just maybe, the penny is dropping and people are starting to realise that looking out for number one has led to this horrendous situation. I thank him publicly for airing it and I pray that this continues and gathers pace. However it seems Balpa are again behind the drag curve and reacting, not pro-acting (is there such a verb?).
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The post of Clanger32 encapsulates the problem nicely. The current system "does not serve the needs of the whole".
This is not BALPA bashing. This problem can be fixed if we first recognise that there is a problem. How can BALPA ever tackle some of the big issue's facing our industry today - like pay to fly schemes et al, under the present system?.
It does not have to be like this. As for if the penny has dropped yet - I am not sure. BA friends are quick to praise their CC efficiency (in tackling exclusively BA issue's) while seemingly oblivious to the relentless rise of the Loco's who's business model guarantee's them a competitive advantage. Maybe an upturn in the economy will save them.
It would be interesting if a poll could be organised.
This is not BALPA bashing. This problem can be fixed if we first recognise that there is a problem. How can BALPA ever tackle some of the big issue's facing our industry today - like pay to fly schemes et al, under the present system?.
It does not have to be like this. As for if the penny has dropped yet - I am not sure. BA friends are quick to praise their CC efficiency (in tackling exclusively BA issue's) while seemingly oblivious to the relentless rise of the Loco's who's business model guarantee's them a competitive advantage. Maybe an upturn in the economy will save them.
It would be interesting if a poll could be organised.
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OK, the poll is now up and running. Voting threads are no longer an option for the plebs.
Changed the first post to reflect the changes thus far and would ask all who have already posted to register their votes now the count is up and running.
You have one vote which can't be changed, think hard before you post and be accurate with your mouse.
Changed the first post to reflect the changes thus far and would ask all who have already posted to register their votes now the count is up and running.
You have one vote which can't be changed, think hard before you post and be accurate with your mouse.
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Number of Years Flying: 5
Current Status/Employer: Redundancy due to Global downturn - Charter Airline
Option Selected: Former member - Cancelled out of touch / not effective
Supporting Reason for Selection:
1) Went to BALPA job conference at LHR, 90% of attendee's fATPL holders <500 hours. Emirates, Etihad, Virgin Atlantic, etc. all gave talks however hiring minimums were >2,500/3,000. Easy/TCX/Monarch/Thomson (traditional hirers of low houred applicants) all no shows. Charged £70.
2) Canadian pilot agreement with TCX and how its being exploited, no action.
3) Reports of schoolboy errors and oversights in negotiations (outwith BA).
4) Looking at pilot T&C's vs train driver T&C's from 20 years ago and see what effective collective bargaining can achieve when dealing with numerous companies.
5) Pay2Fly schemes - I still don't know what their position is or if they have a strategy. From their forum not one BALPA employee made a comment, however they were quick to post on issues that were either easy to deal with or faff (in my humble opinion). This is single most important issue we will have to deal with in the next few years.
NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
Current Status/Employer: Redundancy due to Global downturn - Charter Airline
Option Selected: Former member - Cancelled out of touch / not effective
Supporting Reason for Selection:
1) Went to BALPA job conference at LHR, 90% of attendee's fATPL holders <500 hours. Emirates, Etihad, Virgin Atlantic, etc. all gave talks however hiring minimums were >2,500/3,000. Easy/TCX/Monarch/Thomson (traditional hirers of low houred applicants) all no shows. Charged £70.
2) Canadian pilot agreement with TCX and how its being exploited, no action.
3) Reports of schoolboy errors and oversights in negotiations (outwith BA).
4) Looking at pilot T&C's vs train driver T&C's from 20 years ago and see what effective collective bargaining can achieve when dealing with numerous companies.
5) Pay2Fly schemes - I still don't know what their position is or if they have a strategy. From their forum not one BALPA employee made a comment, however they were quick to post on issues that were either easy to deal with or faff (in my humble opinion). This is single most important issue we will have to deal with in the next few years.
NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 18th Feb 2010 at 03:29.
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Years flying: 6
Current Status/Employer: Employed Scheduled airline.
Option Selected: Former member - Cancelled out of touch / not effective
Supporting Reason: Asked twice for support on a personal issue and didn't get any.
More importantly on a company wide issue at a time when our operation wasn't so much acquired but given to another airline, negiotiations were completed between mgmt and CC and we weren't consulted or balloted.
Tried to speak to balpa central got told to deal directly with ineffectual rep.
Stop subscriptions after that.
Current Status/Employer: Employed Scheduled airline.
Option Selected: Former member - Cancelled out of touch / not effective
Supporting Reason: Asked twice for support on a personal issue and didn't get any.
More importantly on a company wide issue at a time when our operation wasn't so much acquired but given to another airline, negiotiations were completed between mgmt and CC and we weren't consulted or balloted.
Tried to speak to balpa central got told to deal directly with ineffectual rep.
Stop subscriptions after that.
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Number of years flying: 23
Current Status/Employer: Unemployed/Waiting to join a Lo-Cost operator.
Option selected: BALPA member- NOT impressed.
Supporting reason for selection: Pay-to Fly isn't being challenged & British jobs AREN'T going to unemployed British/EU Pilots.
BALPA is a Toothless Eunuch!- It has neither Balls nor Bite!
Current Status/Employer: Unemployed/Waiting to join a Lo-Cost operator.
Option selected: BALPA member- NOT impressed.
Supporting reason for selection: Pay-to Fly isn't being challenged & British jobs AREN'T going to unemployed British/EU Pilots.
BALPA is a Toothless Eunuch!- It has neither Balls nor Bite!
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Former member - utterly unimpressed, TOTAL waste of money
Commercially flying in UK for 22 years, still employed. Many type ratings inc. B737 TRI/TRE.
Reason: I'm not in the airline sector and therefore BALPA may as well advise me on growing tomatoes for all they know about non-scheduled airline work, they took our money and didn't have a bloody clue about private aviation....
As well as that how the hell has the industry been allowed to diminish to the current pathetically low level if the mighty BALPA have any BALLS at all?
Commercially flying in UK for 22 years, still employed. Many type ratings inc. B737 TRI/TRE.
Reason: I'm not in the airline sector and therefore BALPA may as well advise me on growing tomatoes for all they know about non-scheduled airline work, they took our money and didn't have a bloody clue about private aviation....
As well as that how the hell has the industry been allowed to diminish to the current pathetically low level if the mighty BALPA have any BALLS at all?
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Would anyone who voted "member - content" or "member - impressed" care to share their experiences so the thread is more balanced.
At present (100-odd votes), those who are currently members and look upon BALPA favourably make up around 40-45% of the votes cast so far.
It would also be interesting to find out why the "never been member - unimpressed" have voted that way (not pilots/don't find unions effective/not eligible/American's/etc.)
At present (100-odd votes), those who are currently members and look upon BALPA favourably make up around 40-45% of the votes cast so far.
It would also be interesting to find out why the "never been member - unimpressed" have voted that way (not pilots/don't find unions effective/not eligible/American's/etc.)
Being a BALPA member, I wish pay-to-fly wannabes would just die before their form of filthy prostitution infects us all. Is that too plain in today's Labour Britain? If so then I'm sorry to have offended. So very very sorry. Really. No I am.
WWW
WWW
WWW,
I do have to say that if I'd had to pay to be a pilot I would now be a retired engineer.
I was EXTREMELY lucky:
1. MoD engineering apprenticeship.
2. Seagoing marine engineer officer (which seemed to count at 3) then IBM.
3. Didn't think of myself as 'officer material' but the RAF kindly trained me to fly.
4. Following upon 3, wife talked me out of 'bush flying' in Africa and I just got in to BEA as the 1973 fuel crisis hit and the recruitment doors slammed shut barely missing my botty.
Terms such as: 'fickle finger of fate' and 'charmed life' spring to mind.
I'd have been just as happy as an IBM engineer (which was on the cards at the time - no pun intended - only old computer people will get that)
As originally an eng it is irritating that I get more respect for being a pilot but, hey, what the heck!
Oh, re BALPA, well, I reckon I was 47 before I had a decent salary and that was just because BALPA negotiated the Long Range Premium deal on the 744 which increased my gross by 25k.
Two best employers: IBM and BA (but if you try a head to head with BA they will destroy you - just be realistic)
p.s. HTF did I get into T&E? I'm retired! Must be because I'm just in from pub. There IS life after aviation - but not much
I do have to say that if I'd had to pay to be a pilot I would now be a retired engineer.
I was EXTREMELY lucky:
1. MoD engineering apprenticeship.
2. Seagoing marine engineer officer (which seemed to count at 3) then IBM.
3. Didn't think of myself as 'officer material' but the RAF kindly trained me to fly.
4. Following upon 3, wife talked me out of 'bush flying' in Africa and I just got in to BEA as the 1973 fuel crisis hit and the recruitment doors slammed shut barely missing my botty.
Terms such as: 'fickle finger of fate' and 'charmed life' spring to mind.
I'd have been just as happy as an IBM engineer (which was on the cards at the time - no pun intended - only old computer people will get that)
As originally an eng it is irritating that I get more respect for being a pilot but, hey, what the heck!
Oh, re BALPA, well, I reckon I was 47 before I had a decent salary and that was just because BALPA negotiated the Long Range Premium deal on the 744 which increased my gross by 25k.
Two best employers: IBM and BA (but if you try a head to head with BA they will destroy you - just be realistic)
p.s. HTF did I get into T&E? I'm retired! Must be because I'm just in from pub. There IS life after aviation - but not much