Flybe flotation
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Flybe flotation
Now's the time to push hard for extra equity or a payrise, as they'll be desperate for that flotation to come off. The mere whisper of unhappy flightcrew would derail the whole process in these fragile times, and you actually (for once) enjoy a very strong bargaining position.
If you can't stomach being so rude, don't worry as I'm sure Merrill Lynch will pocket a nice fat fee for a company that you've helped built up.
If you can't stomach being so rude, don't worry as I'm sure Merrill Lynch will pocket a nice fat fee for a company that you've helped built up.
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Nobody's talking about sinking a company; just transferring a few percent from the Walker trust to those that have helped build the business to what it is today. This will also incentivise the flightcrew going forwards.
The time is never right for payrises etc., and it definitely won't be when it's a new public company with a management team desperate to please the City. Right now, the Walker family can't get their hands on the hundreds of millions of flotation money if there's unrest in the background.
The time is never right for payrises etc., and it definitely won't be when it's a new public company with a management team desperate to please the City. Right now, the Walker family can't get their hands on the hundreds of millions of flotation money if there's unrest in the background.
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FANS, I agree with what you say, but if you think FlyBe pilots will take industrial action (or even threaten industrial action) you are deluding yourself - FlyBe pilots have repeatedly shown themselves to have less spine than a quadriplegic jellyfish, and when push comes to shove will adopt their normal SOP :-
Attitude................................bent over
Trousers...............................down
Cheeks.................................parted
Yell company motto............... I’M JUST GRATEFUL I’VE GOT A JOB!
(don’t believe me?.......see the posts above)
Attitude................................bent over
Trousers...............................down
Cheeks.................................parted
Yell company motto............... I’M JUST GRATEFUL I’VE GOT A JOB!
(don’t believe me?.......see the posts above)
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The time is never right for payrises etc
Agreed, but in this economy think you would be writing your own P45.
Are you ex BA cabin crew
My advice is nobody owes you a living, if you feel unfairly treated by your employer - quit and vote with your feet. Works for me.
Agreed, but in this economy think you would be writing your own P45.
Are you ex BA cabin crew
My advice is nobody owes you a living, if you feel unfairly treated by your employer - quit and vote with your feet. Works for me.
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LAX,
What is it with this "if you don't like it you should walk away" as if this the honourable way of protecting or enhancing terms and conditions. So what you are saying is that any employer can decide what they want to pay, and the employee, if they don't like it, has to find another job. What a naive point of view. Unless of course you've never worked in a decent job and are just hoping that everybody else leaves and you can now get a chance!
Are you happy that managers of extremely profitable airlines can come up with ever more derisible terms and conditions to enhance their own management bonus scheme and we just have to leave if we don't like it? You might not have the bottle to resist that, but thank goodness the majority of us in decent companies do.
Unfortunately in a lot of businesses (not just airlines) its becoming a battle with regard to rewards. Nowadays there isn't even a pretence of sharing in the rewards that the business generates. Look at the likes of Ryanair or easyjet. Their financial success is improving and yet they are now turning employment of pilots (and others) into a revenue stream!
It saddens me that after 20 years of flying I am just grateful that none of my kids have ever expressed an interest in joining this career. Its being spoilt by the culture of greed in most managers, aided and abetted by the utter naivety of most people trying to join it.
What is it with this "if you don't like it you should walk away" as if this the honourable way of protecting or enhancing terms and conditions. So what you are saying is that any employer can decide what they want to pay, and the employee, if they don't like it, has to find another job. What a naive point of view. Unless of course you've never worked in a decent job and are just hoping that everybody else leaves and you can now get a chance!
Are you happy that managers of extremely profitable airlines can come up with ever more derisible terms and conditions to enhance their own management bonus scheme and we just have to leave if we don't like it? You might not have the bottle to resist that, but thank goodness the majority of us in decent companies do.
Unfortunately in a lot of businesses (not just airlines) its becoming a battle with regard to rewards. Nowadays there isn't even a pretence of sharing in the rewards that the business generates. Look at the likes of Ryanair or easyjet. Their financial success is improving and yet they are now turning employment of pilots (and others) into a revenue stream!
It saddens me that after 20 years of flying I am just grateful that none of my kids have ever expressed an interest in joining this career. Its being spoilt by the culture of greed in most managers, aided and abetted by the utter naivety of most people trying to join it.
FANS,
Do you actually work for flybe? How long for? Many of the long serving staff who have helped the company become what it is today hold deferred share certificates which may have a reasonable value when/if the company is floated. If memory serves me rightly they were distributed to staff who had worked for the company for at least a year prior to Jack Walkers death.
Anyone who left the company had to surrender the shares, so long serving and loyal (as opposed to forced to work there due to company mergers and lack of other opportunities) staff already will be rewarded if the floatation occurs.
Do you actually work for flybe? How long for? Many of the long serving staff who have helped the company become what it is today hold deferred share certificates which may have a reasonable value when/if the company is floated. If memory serves me rightly they were distributed to staff who had worked for the company for at least a year prior to Jack Walkers death.
Anyone who left the company had to surrender the shares, so long serving and loyal (as opposed to forced to work there due to company mergers and lack of other opportunities) staff already will be rewarded if the floatation occurs.
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n_f99
Nobody owes me a living. I work and get paid. Pherhaps if more people showed some backbone and turned down or walked out on poor terms and conditions it would make those who propose so called schemes and agreements think again and put some value on employee, loyalty, skills, dedication etc. Protecting terms and conditions is one thing, asking for more in todays economy is another.
I wish FANS all the best with the quest. I hear that Flybe is a good company to work for via some colleagues. However, should he or she be un-happy with their lot at the moment their are plenty of redundant GSM, Tfly, XL etc drivers looking for an oppertunity
Nobody owes me a living. I work and get paid. Pherhaps if more people showed some backbone and turned down or walked out on poor terms and conditions it would make those who propose so called schemes and agreements think again and put some value on employee, loyalty, skills, dedication etc. Protecting terms and conditions is one thing, asking for more in todays economy is another.
I wish FANS all the best with the quest. I hear that Flybe is a good company to work for via some colleagues. However, should he or she be un-happy with their lot at the moment their are plenty of redundant GSM, Tfly, XL etc drivers looking for an oppertunity
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LAX,
Nobody has said anything about "owing any of us a living". We all expect to earn a decent salary for trading our skills. It seems your response to not being rewarded well is to walk out, as if this is some sort of more honourable approach. Most of the rest of us believe that if we can negotiate more out of our current employers then its probably a better way to go. As a matter of interest how many jobs have you walked out on then?
It's all very well coming out with this sort of statement but most people (like a lot of the crew have done in Flybe) join a company intending to make a career. Take easyjet and ryanair, where the company are mercilessly trying to screw every last benefit out of the crews. Do they just leave and go somewhere else or do they stay and try to negotiate with the company to try and make things better?
Nobody has said anything about "owing any of us a living". We all expect to earn a decent salary for trading our skills. It seems your response to not being rewarded well is to walk out, as if this is some sort of more honourable approach. Most of the rest of us believe that if we can negotiate more out of our current employers then its probably a better way to go. As a matter of interest how many jobs have you walked out on then?
It's all very well coming out with this sort of statement but most people (like a lot of the crew have done in Flybe) join a company intending to make a career. Take easyjet and ryanair, where the company are mercilessly trying to screw every last benefit out of the crews. Do they just leave and go somewhere else or do they stay and try to negotiate with the company to try and make things better?
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n_f 99
Don't disagree with your perspective but I think Jobs for life, career airline, job security etc vanished at the same time as final salary pension in any industry (unless your a useless free loader working for the goverment/eu).
BALPA is weak. Sadly, ive found the best option is be as hard faced as the (bounus driven) management dictating the t and c's. It works for me.
All the best
LAX
Don't disagree with your perspective but I think Jobs for life, career airline, job security etc vanished at the same time as final salary pension in any industry (unless your a useless free loader working for the goverment/eu).
BALPA is weak. Sadly, ive found the best option is be as hard faced as the (bounus driven) management dictating the t and c's. It works for me.
All the best
LAX
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Sadly, ive found the best option is be as hard faced as the (bounus driven) management dictating the t and c's. It works for me.
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so long serving and loyal (as opposed to forced to work there due to company mergers and lack of other opportunities) staff already will be rewarded if the floatation occurs.
I can assure you that there are many ex BACon (inc myself) who have been long serving in the previous outfit, are now very loyal to Flybe, do not feel in the least 'forced' to work here, who have other opportunities they have no desire to partake in and very much accept that the 'originals' deserve their shares.
There are still some in the category you describe but they will hopefully/no doubt move on in due course. Some will be happy, others never. Some will also join the many who wish they had stayed here and are now wanting to get back. Unfortunately for them, there are no DEC positions and a large number of FO/s above the bottom of the list - rightly so.
I like working here and the Ts & Cs are generally continuing to improve as the company fills its expanded feet.
I can only imagine a flotation would not be advantages, other than in the short term, to those that wish to stay.
The last I heard was a flat denial of a flotation in the current climate. Have I missed something?
Anyway, with dont brush tar please all same the
Thanks
Last edited by Certa Cito; 31st Dec 2009 at 11:20.
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This talk of 'be glad to have a job' is just going over kill these days. Yes we are all thankful to be in a current post considering the climate but this does mean we cant be in a position to work towards improving conditions. In bad times the excuses are its not the right time and in the good times there are plenty more to resist the need to improve.
Lets face the reality of the matter here with regards to the airline, this company has been criticised for TnCs for many years. Yes they are improving but considering what they were before might explain the fact why they are improving in the first place.
The company does not do enough for loyalty and thats why so may have left in the past, the simple fact is they do not intend to reward you for your loyalty. This may have worked before when the airline was small but now considering its size, how can this be the case?
I like working for this airline and do believe that TnCs are on the up but theres along way to go and just because of the current climate we cant just be ready to stop all talk of improvement. We can understand the reasons behind why certain improvements cant be made due to financial or current market conditions but when the time comes and the industry gets out of this low, the agreement for improvement will be ever stronger in those good times.
I completely respect and understand the view point and hardships of our colleagues without jobs of which some I personally know off myself but lets not disrespect our own livelihood's, job and skills at the same time. No disrespect but those that say if you don't like it go elsewhere because someone else would be more grateful to have your job. Let me ask you this; if you/they had a job with another airline would you really care about my TnCs? I don't think in truth you would, instead you would be looking at your own TnCs and how it effects you.
We as crew have worked hard along with others in the company to bring this airline to its current position we therefore have the right to work towards improving our working conditions no matter what the climate. We want to be here when the times are good and bad hence why we want the improved TnCs for the long run.
Those that say if you don't like it leave, its simply not as easy as that, they need to understand many of us like to continue working for the airline but if loyalty and improvement are not rewarded or improved then with regret that maybe the end result.
If we the employees don't look to improve conditions then who will? We are all grateful to have a job but its our responsibility to improve TnCs in our airline because it wont be done by those in other airlines or those without jobs.
Aka.
Lets face the reality of the matter here with regards to the airline, this company has been criticised for TnCs for many years. Yes they are improving but considering what they were before might explain the fact why they are improving in the first place.
The company does not do enough for loyalty and thats why so may have left in the past, the simple fact is they do not intend to reward you for your loyalty. This may have worked before when the airline was small but now considering its size, how can this be the case?
I like working for this airline and do believe that TnCs are on the up but theres along way to go and just because of the current climate we cant just be ready to stop all talk of improvement. We can understand the reasons behind why certain improvements cant be made due to financial or current market conditions but when the time comes and the industry gets out of this low, the agreement for improvement will be ever stronger in those good times.
I completely respect and understand the view point and hardships of our colleagues without jobs of which some I personally know off myself but lets not disrespect our own livelihood's, job and skills at the same time. No disrespect but those that say if you don't like it go elsewhere because someone else would be more grateful to have your job. Let me ask you this; if you/they had a job with another airline would you really care about my TnCs? I don't think in truth you would, instead you would be looking at your own TnCs and how it effects you.
We as crew have worked hard along with others in the company to bring this airline to its current position we therefore have the right to work towards improving our working conditions no matter what the climate. We want to be here when the times are good and bad hence why we want the improved TnCs for the long run.
Those that say if you don't like it leave, its simply not as easy as that, they need to understand many of us like to continue working for the airline but if loyalty and improvement are not rewarded or improved then with regret that maybe the end result.
If we the employees don't look to improve conditions then who will? We are all grateful to have a job but its our responsibility to improve TnCs in our airline because it wont be done by those in other airlines or those without jobs.
Aka.
