What does BALPA *actually* do?
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Richmondshire
I suspect BALPA gets the blame unfairly when things go wrong, for example when an employer collapses, people are naturally angry and latch onto BALPA as something to lash out at.
BALPA can't perform miracles however I defy anyone to disprove that airlines with the highest membership levels have the best terms and conditions.
I've had sterling service from the association and don't work for BA. My company council has had large amounts of BALPA funds expended on it over the years. Whilst BA makes up the bulk of the membership and it rightly BALPA spends the most money on it, however it doesn't follow other companies are neglected. Quite a number of my colleagues have BALPA to thank for their ongoing gameful employment.
To any wavers, I would caution putting too much store in the words written under the cloak of anonymity. From the bottom of the page: "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions."
BALPA can't perform miracles however I defy anyone to disprove that airlines with the highest membership levels have the best terms and conditions.
I've had sterling service from the association and don't work for BA. My company council has had large amounts of BALPA funds expended on it over the years. Whilst BA makes up the bulk of the membership and it rightly BALPA spends the most money on it, however it doesn't follow other companies are neglected. Quite a number of my colleagues have BALPA to thank for their ongoing gameful employment.
To any wavers, I would caution putting too much store in the words written under the cloak of anonymity. From the bottom of the page: "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions."
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 231
Likes: 9
From: Earth
I joined BALPA when I finished my modular training thinking that their would be perhaps seminars, networking opportunities, career advise etc being a newbie not working for a operator.
I pay 2 pounds a month and get a magazine and will use them for lost of license insurance. When I asked about careers advise, I was pointed to a C.V template on the website which was not all that good. At that time, I was hoping to speak to someone with industry experience on the flying side, have a frank conversation to help me on my way.
On the point of the magazine, reading the last edition regarding the cadet training, it was disappointing to read the lack of mention of those going modular being restricted to applying via the likes of CTC who have contracts tied up. Anyway, that's another conversation
I pay 2 pounds a month and get a magazine and will use them for lost of license insurance. When I asked about careers advise, I was pointed to a C.V template on the website which was not all that good. At that time, I was hoping to speak to someone with industry experience on the flying side, have a frank conversation to help me on my way.
On the point of the magazine, reading the last edition regarding the cadet training, it was disappointing to read the lack of mention of those going modular being restricted to applying via the likes of CTC who have contracts tied up. Anyway, that's another conversation
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 2
From: In a far better place
What does BALPA actually do?
Anyone else have anything to add to the list as to what BALPA or APLA does?
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Sussex
In my company, the CC is a reflection of and is representative of the pilots. If, as you say Council Van they're incompetent and useless, perhaps you should take a long look at yourself. And your colleagues......
As for value for money, with the 66% tax relief on subs and the £950 pa fixed rate expense allowance, it's a bit of a no brainer isn't it?
As for value for money, with the 66% tax relief on subs and the £950 pa fixed rate expense allowance, it's a bit of a no brainer isn't it?
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Sussex
CV, my lot are working very hard to make the best of a bad situation, perhaps similar to yours. I hope it works out well for you and yours.
My comments were made to point out that we're not better off without representation in this cut throat business that we're in. As bad as your situation is, would it really be any better without some representation? BALPA is not the issue, it's us and our employers that are the problem.
Good luck.
My comments were made to point out that we're not better off without representation in this cut throat business that we're in. As bad as your situation is, would it really be any better without some representation? BALPA is not the issue, it's us and our employers that are the problem.
Good luck.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 575
Likes: 7
What Does BALPA Do?
To my mind & in my opinion, very little, other opinions may differ.
I was a fully paid up member of BALPA for 30 years plus, in 2002 I finally retired from flying & amongst others I advised at the time was BALPA. As of to-day I am still waiting for a reply to my letter, something along the lines of `all the best in your retirement` from them would have been nice.
During the last few years of my flying career, I contacted BALPA Financial Services a number of times, they were most helpful & I was very grateful for their sensible & professional advice, they were the only Department to ever assist me. To my mind I often felt & still do, that basically BALPA not only never knew I existed, but couldn't care anyway.
I was a fully paid up member of BALPA for 30 years plus, in 2002 I finally retired from flying & amongst others I advised at the time was BALPA. As of to-day I am still waiting for a reply to my letter, something along the lines of `all the best in your retirement` from them would have been nice.
During the last few years of my flying career, I contacted BALPA Financial Services a number of times, they were most helpful & I was very grateful for their sensible & professional advice, they were the only Department to ever assist me. To my mind I often felt & still do, that basically BALPA not only never knew I existed, but couldn't care anyway.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 613
Likes: 1
From: sussex
and the other 169+ ???
Bruce
I take your point but any job saved in this current recession has to be a good thing.
Mind you, I don't see any cutbacks at BALPA HQ,company cars all round appears still to be the norm there.
Bruce
I take your point but any job saved in this current recession has to be a good thing.
Mind you, I don't see any cutbacks at BALPA HQ,company cars all round appears still to be the norm there.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
From: Dre's mum's house
Mind you, I don't see any cutbacks at BALPA HQ,company cars all round appears still to be the norm there.
Nevertheless, if that isn't enough to make you question what use your subs are put to, perhaps a sidestep from the path trodden by all the other lemmings, coupled with an oblique look, past your rose tinted glasses might open your eyes to reality.
The poor b8ggers at bmiBaby and bmi may well get reports and corpoRat spin on some well fed and watered meetings with management about their crisis, but there will little substance to the rhetoric.
In the meantime, those with 737 ratings who have taken off the rose tinted glasses are now applying to that most hated non union airline FR: when BALPA lets you down........there is always good old FR!!
PS Before any smart Alec asks for proof of who has applied / joined to join FR why not simply put up a new thread and ask them to come out of the closet. Oh, and don't forget the former Excel guys either.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Richmondshire
As we all know, accounts whilst usually factual, seldom reflect reality and selective quotation from them can be misleading. Just why would FR Quisling-types show such an interest in the accounts of an organisation they aren't a member of and don't contribute to? Perhaps perish the thought some sort of ulterior motive was at work 
The world of BALPA isn't trebles all round and lunch at the Ivy. It involves a lot of hard graft on the part of the reps (elected by their peers, i.e. pilots in their respective airlines) and some personal sacrifice in financial terms due to loss of flight pay and allowances. Why should these individuals not have their subsistence and hotac paid for? Incidentally, unless it's changed radically in the last few years, reps can't expect anything more luxurious that a seat in economy and possibly a curry in the evening. Hardly extravagant!
These days things like company cars are more of a tax liability than a perk, and to be honest, if a job required a company car, you probably wouldn't want the job in the first place - the UK motorway system isn't a pleasant place to be. The posh cars in the BALPA car park are the pilot reps anyway
Airlines fortunes ebb and flow. The fact is FR happens to be expanding whilst others stagnate or falter, hence this is where all the applications are going to. I wouldn't for a moment confuse them for being an employer of choice. It's like saying Wetherspoons is the best pub. Think of them as a house for homeless pilots.
The world of BALPA isn't trebles all round and lunch at the Ivy. It involves a lot of hard graft on the part of the reps (elected by their peers, i.e. pilots in their respective airlines) and some personal sacrifice in financial terms due to loss of flight pay and allowances. Why should these individuals not have their subsistence and hotac paid for? Incidentally, unless it's changed radically in the last few years, reps can't expect anything more luxurious that a seat in economy and possibly a curry in the evening. Hardly extravagant!
These days things like company cars are more of a tax liability than a perk, and to be honest, if a job required a company car, you probably wouldn't want the job in the first place - the UK motorway system isn't a pleasant place to be. The posh cars in the BALPA car park are the pilot reps anyway
Airlines fortunes ebb and flow. The fact is FR happens to be expanding whilst others stagnate or falter, hence this is where all the applications are going to. I wouldn't for a moment confuse them for being an employer of choice. It's like saying Wetherspoons is the best pub. Think of them as a house for homeless pilots.
Last edited by Barden; 6th December 2009 at 14:11.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
In short, BALPA is only really worth the money if your employer recognises BALPA or if there is a strong drive in your airline to seek BALPA recognition. Otherwise it is an awful lot of money for not very much when the IPA/IPF can offer the same for less money.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
BALPA in any airline is only as good as the members of the CC. My CC have varied over the last 10 years from brilliant to dire. Currently, they are good(ish). This is directly due to the fact that only very few talented people can be bothered to work as CC members. Often this allows unsuitable or 'single issue' people onto the CC, with disasterous results.
So next time you winge 'what has BALPA done for me', perhaps the response should be, what have you done to make BALPA stronger?
So next time you winge 'what has BALPA done for me', perhaps the response should be, what have you done to make BALPA stronger?
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Midlands
Why oh Why oh Why
Why aren’t Balpa:
1. Standing up for the FO’s at bmi, why are they only protecting the Captains? Hour after hour is wasted discussing the ins and out of a re-promotion policy that in all likelihood may never happen! whilst FO’s are actually losing their jobs right now!
2. Why hasn’t balpa got rid of the cadet scheme? Or are they turning a blind eye to concede something to bmi so they can live to fight another day and protect more Captains? If these cadets remain after redundancies have been made they will be flying the sectors that some of those FO’s would have flown. Getting rid of this scheme will save FO jobs directly? I wonder whether this scheme would have sailed through the pork barrel buffet at balpa so easily if it was allowing PAYG Captains?
It was less than a month ago that this paragraph appeared in a bmi mainline newsletter – why has it gone from being a major issue to forgotten about? Why haven’t we heard anything since?
‘The issue of cadets is likely to be a major debate at the forthcoming BALPA Annual Delegates’ Conference and we would be delighted to hear your views to take with us to that conference.
We know that a number of you find it disturbing that we should be charging cadets for operating our aircraft at all, but to do it while making full-time, long serving pilots redundant seems particularly distasteful’
3. Why has it taken weeks to announce a VR package that has been in the AFS since before the big bang?
It would be nice to think balpa aren’t just pocketing our monthly fees – I’d like to hope they are seeking legal advice on our behalf (particularly with regards to these cadets) and will keep us updated – yet we’re still waiting and waiting and waiting.
1. Standing up for the FO’s at bmi, why are they only protecting the Captains? Hour after hour is wasted discussing the ins and out of a re-promotion policy that in all likelihood may never happen! whilst FO’s are actually losing their jobs right now!
2. Why hasn’t balpa got rid of the cadet scheme? Or are they turning a blind eye to concede something to bmi so they can live to fight another day and protect more Captains? If these cadets remain after redundancies have been made they will be flying the sectors that some of those FO’s would have flown. Getting rid of this scheme will save FO jobs directly? I wonder whether this scheme would have sailed through the pork barrel buffet at balpa so easily if it was allowing PAYG Captains?
It was less than a month ago that this paragraph appeared in a bmi mainline newsletter – why has it gone from being a major issue to forgotten about? Why haven’t we heard anything since?
‘The issue of cadets is likely to be a major debate at the forthcoming BALPA Annual Delegates’ Conference and we would be delighted to hear your views to take with us to that conference.
We know that a number of you find it disturbing that we should be charging cadets for operating our aircraft at all, but to do it while making full-time, long serving pilots redundant seems particularly distasteful’
3. Why has it taken weeks to announce a VR package that has been in the AFS since before the big bang?
It would be nice to think balpa aren’t just pocketing our monthly fees – I’d like to hope they are seeking legal advice on our behalf (particularly with regards to these cadets) and will keep us updated – yet we’re still waiting and waiting and waiting.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
From: in my own world
The problem with BALPA is all the extra’s it offers. Why do we need this surplus advice? If you need advice you can seek this through other means at your own expense. We need BALPA when:
o The brown stuff hits the fan, at home and down route
o Advice with industrial negotiations or action.
Cut down the EMPIRE to what’s required and move to a smaller office, in a cheaper area, then reduce the subs to a sensible amount. Simples……
o The brown stuff hits the fan, at home and down route
o Advice with industrial negotiations or action.
Cut down the EMPIRE to what’s required and move to a smaller office, in a cheaper area, then reduce the subs to a sensible amount. Simples……
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Rutland, UK
For me it is purely the cost of the subs. Almost across the board every airline has cancelled pay rises, or reduced pay and BALPA ought to be cutting their cloth too. They too need to be making cost savings, which could be passed back onto the pilot workforce. They need to be offering incentives to join and to stay and not just taking it a given right that people will cough up every month. In my previous occupation (old bill) the subs were more than half of what BALPA and we got a hell of alot more for our money. I do believe that strength comes from numbers, but BALPA need to realise that at times like these they need to be doing the whole operation much better. The subs are just not good value for money in my opinion.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 17
From: Delta of Venus
My old dad always describes trade unionists as "an inferior breed of politician". Draw from that what you will. Yes, i'm sure they do good work for some pilots, but its mainly good for themselves i suspect.
