Easyjet "holding pool"
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Easyjet "holding pool"
Hello everybody...i made a call to easyjet flight crew recruitment dept. a couple of days ago, wondering about any updates for pilots in the holding pool like me (i am swimming since early 2008)...they told me their policy has changed and holding pool no more lasts 2 years but just 1..so i am officially kicked out of it...gutted..well they said I should have received a communication about it but I didn't, and nobody I know who is in the holding pool did...so have I been fooled? What the hell is going on? Anybody knows?
All this is just ridiculous anyway...
Cheers
GDS
All this is just ridiculous anyway...
Cheers
GDS
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I haven't heard that either, had an update email from them today, basically no change forseeable. I've not been told that it is now 1 year not 2, but who knows....
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Even if it is 2 years, nothing will happen by then - you only have to look at what the company is doing right now - base closures and reductions. The company is slowing down growth rates which ultimately means all Captain promotions will (should) come from within and any FO positions are done on a part time basis via CTC. It sucks I know, but that's how the company is playing ball for the forseeable . . . .
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Akrapovic - that is not really the whole picture, or indeed the any part of the picture about what is happening at easyJet. I am an easyJet Training Captain based in Gatwick and although I am not a manager I have a reasonable picture of what is happening within the company.
The headline news is this:
1. Although not yet stated officially, we have had a great summer and are almost certainly about to announce a profit for the whole year - something that only Ryanair in the UK and only a handful of airlines in the western world will acheive this year.
2. Our share price is on the rise compared to where it has been this last year.
3. UK regional bases are under threat of closure or reduction. East Midlands which only had 3 aircraft at it is the only one to announce a closure - all aircraft will be deployed elsewhere and all pilots and cabin crew will be offered jobs elsewhere.
4. Larger bases like Gatwick and a number of European bases are likely to expand significantly over the next year.
5. Despite the difficult situation at the UK regional bases, the overall picture is one of fleet increase over the coming few years and we are constantly receiving brand new Airbuses from the factory.
6. There will be demand for pilots at easyJet for years to come.
7. Right now there is not a company in the world that I know of that is more secure for pilots on permanent contracts. We have as safe a job as exists right now - I for one am extremely grateful for that situation.
8. We fly a fleet of nearly new aircraft - it is not unommon the find yourself flying a brand new Airbus in its first week out of the factory.
9. Despite the numerous attempts by our managers to ruin things, easyJet is still a great place to work, and most people really enjoy it.
10. If you are fortunate to work at places like Gatwick, the range of destinations is enormous - I have worked here over 5 years and I still have not been to all our destinations.
11. The 5/3/5/4 rostering pattern is a huge benefit and you can plan your life over a year ahead to know when you are off.
12. The people are great - I work every day with pleasant, courteous and professional people who really want to do a great job. That is difficult to quantify financially, but in terms of the enjoyment of your day it is just priceless.
Alas, it is not really good news for those in the holding pool. My own view, and I think this will be verified by anyone in the know at easyJet, is that the holding pool is effectively defunct. The whole way easyJet conducts its recruitment has come under intense scrutiny and the traditional forms of recruitment are basically gone. It is stating the obvious, but for the infinite foreseeable future I cannot envisage any circumstances under which we will recruit Direct Entry Captains (DECs) again. For the next few years, and maybe beyond, all future First Officers will be recruited from cheap low-houred guys/gals who will be recruited through CTC. These will be young folk who have huge burdens of aviation debt who are desperate for hours and will take virtually any deal on offer. They will be employed in the summer months only on temporary contracts. Until that supply dries up, and that may be many years from now, that is likely to be the only way into easyJet I can imagine. Forget the old days of wanting experience on turboprops, or better still jets - those days are long gone. All that counts now is a type-rating and a couple of hundred hours total time. We can basically get our supply of pilots for the summer from this source.
Where do the captains come from you might ask? The answer is that they will all come from within and from 2 basic contracts. One will be permanent but hours limited promotions from within. They will be FOs (we have around 250-300 suitably qualified FOs awaiting promotion right now - cannot give you the exact figure but around those numbers) who get their turn. They will be offered full time for 6 months in the summer and 25% in the winter (contract known as PPY75 - pemanent part year 75%). The others will come from temporary promotions from our own FOs who will get summer commands only.
There are an enormous range of 'economy' measures in place. These vary from the recruitment policy above to the attacking of Training Captain salaries. All Training Dept promotions were cancelled for the winter - anyone waiting a TRI/TRE upgrade was unceremoniously binned off their planned courses a few weeks ago. There is an ongoing discussion about how to handle the 'surplus' of Line Training Captains - almost certainly the end result will be no redundancies but a reduced training contract with reduced money.
Love it or hate it, that is the future as I believe it to be at easyJet. If you are swimming in the Holding Pool, my best advice would be to make alternative plans very quickly. I genuinely believe there is little or no possibility any time in the next few years when you will be offered a permanent job at easyJet. Please do not shoot the messenger - I am not justifying this situation in any way, but merely reporting it as it is. Some of my colleagues may care to contribute with their take on the situation, but I would need some persuading that the view I have given is not correct. Best of luck to one and all.
The headline news is this:
1. Although not yet stated officially, we have had a great summer and are almost certainly about to announce a profit for the whole year - something that only Ryanair in the UK and only a handful of airlines in the western world will acheive this year.
2. Our share price is on the rise compared to where it has been this last year.
3. UK regional bases are under threat of closure or reduction. East Midlands which only had 3 aircraft at it is the only one to announce a closure - all aircraft will be deployed elsewhere and all pilots and cabin crew will be offered jobs elsewhere.
4. Larger bases like Gatwick and a number of European bases are likely to expand significantly over the next year.
5. Despite the difficult situation at the UK regional bases, the overall picture is one of fleet increase over the coming few years and we are constantly receiving brand new Airbuses from the factory.
6. There will be demand for pilots at easyJet for years to come.
7. Right now there is not a company in the world that I know of that is more secure for pilots on permanent contracts. We have as safe a job as exists right now - I for one am extremely grateful for that situation.
8. We fly a fleet of nearly new aircraft - it is not unommon the find yourself flying a brand new Airbus in its first week out of the factory.
9. Despite the numerous attempts by our managers to ruin things, easyJet is still a great place to work, and most people really enjoy it.
10. If you are fortunate to work at places like Gatwick, the range of destinations is enormous - I have worked here over 5 years and I still have not been to all our destinations.
11. The 5/3/5/4 rostering pattern is a huge benefit and you can plan your life over a year ahead to know when you are off.
12. The people are great - I work every day with pleasant, courteous and professional people who really want to do a great job. That is difficult to quantify financially, but in terms of the enjoyment of your day it is just priceless.
Alas, it is not really good news for those in the holding pool. My own view, and I think this will be verified by anyone in the know at easyJet, is that the holding pool is effectively defunct. The whole way easyJet conducts its recruitment has come under intense scrutiny and the traditional forms of recruitment are basically gone. It is stating the obvious, but for the infinite foreseeable future I cannot envisage any circumstances under which we will recruit Direct Entry Captains (DECs) again. For the next few years, and maybe beyond, all future First Officers will be recruited from cheap low-houred guys/gals who will be recruited through CTC. These will be young folk who have huge burdens of aviation debt who are desperate for hours and will take virtually any deal on offer. They will be employed in the summer months only on temporary contracts. Until that supply dries up, and that may be many years from now, that is likely to be the only way into easyJet I can imagine. Forget the old days of wanting experience on turboprops, or better still jets - those days are long gone. All that counts now is a type-rating and a couple of hundred hours total time. We can basically get our supply of pilots for the summer from this source.
Where do the captains come from you might ask? The answer is that they will all come from within and from 2 basic contracts. One will be permanent but hours limited promotions from within. They will be FOs (we have around 250-300 suitably qualified FOs awaiting promotion right now - cannot give you the exact figure but around those numbers) who get their turn. They will be offered full time for 6 months in the summer and 25% in the winter (contract known as PPY75 - pemanent part year 75%). The others will come from temporary promotions from our own FOs who will get summer commands only.
There are an enormous range of 'economy' measures in place. These vary from the recruitment policy above to the attacking of Training Captain salaries. All Training Dept promotions were cancelled for the winter - anyone waiting a TRI/TRE upgrade was unceremoniously binned off their planned courses a few weeks ago. There is an ongoing discussion about how to handle the 'surplus' of Line Training Captains - almost certainly the end result will be no redundancies but a reduced training contract with reduced money.
Love it or hate it, that is the future as I believe it to be at easyJet. If you are swimming in the Holding Pool, my best advice would be to make alternative plans very quickly. I genuinely believe there is little or no possibility any time in the next few years when you will be offered a permanent job at easyJet. Please do not shoot the messenger - I am not justifying this situation in any way, but merely reporting it as it is. Some of my colleagues may care to contribute with their take on the situation, but I would need some persuading that the view I have given is not correct. Best of luck to one and all.
NSF,
I hope you are well and agree with you about EZY but you are not correct when comparing EZY's profit to Ryanair's annual report.
In fact Ryanair's annual report goes from from March to March and therefore a bit offset to easyJet but they still came out with a big loss according to their latest report released this summer.
Ryanair reports first annual loss in 2008/2009 - Monsters and Critics
Next year will be a different matter.............
TFCM
Ps. As of August -09 189 FO's on the waiting list for command.
I hope you are well and agree with you about EZY but you are not correct when comparing EZY's profit to Ryanair's annual report.
In fact Ryanair's annual report goes from from March to March and therefore a bit offset to easyJet but they still came out with a big loss according to their latest report released this summer.
Ryanair reports first annual loss in 2008/2009 - Monsters and Critics
Next year will be a different matter.............
TFCM
Ps. As of August -09 189 FO's on the waiting list for command.
Last edited by The Flying Cokeman; 2nd Oct 2009 at 22:31.
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Akrapovic - that is not really the whole picture, or indeed the any part of the picture about what is happening at easyJet.
all Captain promotions will (should) come from within
Where do the captains come from you might ask? The answer is that they will all come from within and from 2 basic contracts.
any FO positions are done on a part time basis via CTC.
. For the next few years, and maybe beyond, all future First Officers will be recruited from cheap low-houred guys/gals who will be recruited through CTC.
Akrapovic - that is not really the whole picture, or indeed the any part of the picture about what is happening at easyJet
I appreciate you're certainly more in the know than most regarding comments regarding easyJet, but I'd appreciate it if you read others' comments before shooting them down in flames!
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the company is actually short in the RHS but due to a somewhat misguided embargo by the AMB there is no recruitment. If there was it would not necessarily help the hold pool out because there are plenty of cadets who have already worked 6 months in the company facing the boot this month.
Easyjet is an ok place to be at present but that is despite the current management not because of them. Sad but true.
If I were swimming in the orange pool I would consider looking for alternatives opportunities.
Easyjet is an ok place to be at present but that is despite the current management not because of them. Sad but true.
If I were swimming in the orange pool I would consider looking for alternatives opportunities.
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Thanks Norman for an informative post. Indeed I pretty much gave up any thoughts of getting into Ezy quite a while ago unfortunately, although officially still in the pool, but that is the reality of life at the moment I'm afraid.
Which had me wondering, where do guys like myself go in the forseeable. Quite a few years now on heavy TPs, a few thousand hours, and I cannot for the life of me see how guys in the same situation will ever move into jet airlines anymore, not just Ezy, but generally. As you say, I think the days of the old traditional routes of cutting one's teeth in maybe light twins, then heavy TPs, then moving into the jet world (should one want to of course, not everyone does I understand that) are long gone, and sadly for the industry, will not be returning, certainly in the numbers we used to see anyway.
I know this is an aside to the topic of the Ezy hold pool, but I'm just interested in other guys' views on this, particularly those of you in a similar boat, good hours on TPs, a few years now under your belt, where do we go from here???
Which had me wondering, where do guys like myself go in the forseeable. Quite a few years now on heavy TPs, a few thousand hours, and I cannot for the life of me see how guys in the same situation will ever move into jet airlines anymore, not just Ezy, but generally. As you say, I think the days of the old traditional routes of cutting one's teeth in maybe light twins, then heavy TPs, then moving into the jet world (should one want to of course, not everyone does I understand that) are long gone, and sadly for the industry, will not be returning, certainly in the numbers we used to see anyway.
I know this is an aside to the topic of the Ezy hold pool, but I'm just interested in other guys' views on this, particularly those of you in a similar boat, good hours on TPs, a few years now under your belt, where do we go from here???
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The Flying Cokeman - thanks for that. The 189 figure in August is probably more correct than my 250-300. There are also some guys currently acting as captain who are about to be returned to the gene pool (about 10 I believe). Obviously each month that goes by, particularly during the summer when people are flying a lot, produces more and more qualified FOs. The exact figure changes but we can safely say it is going up all the time. Also, I agree about Ryanair - their figures March to March were indeed a loss. For better or worse from easyJet's perspective, Ryanair are forecasting a massive profit for the coming year covering this summer that has just finished and ending in March 2010. I am not really sure how that comes about as fundamentally their business model is not changing, but that is nonetheless what they are saying.
Akrapovic - my comments to you were specifically about base closures and reductions. There is one base closure (EMA which has 3 aircraft out of a total fleet of 165-ish) and the reductions in Luton etc are going to be significantly offset by expansions elsewhere. Love them or hate them, our management have decided that these aircraft can make way more money in continental Europe than they can in the UK. If you are one of those getting compulsory resettlement from the UK to elsewhere then clearly that is very unsatisfactory. Nonetheless, in terms of the questions being asked here 'base closures and reductions' suggest a reduction in easyJet's overall fleet, when in fact the exact opposite is happening. We are still expanding, albeit at a less aggressive rate than was originally planned.
As others have pointed out, there is indeed a shortage of FOs right now within easyJet - that is likely to increase rather than decrease due to the ending of summer contracts. Some work is rumoured to be being offered to some of the cadets over the winter but I have not yet met anyone who has been formally offered that deal. There are no doubt big bonuses to be made for the managers who balance the figures correctly. As our previous Director of Flight Operations discovered, there are also some very quick ways out of the company for those that get the figures wrong and force us into cancelling flights. I wait with interest to see where the dice falls in the coming weeks.
Akrapovic - my comments to you were specifically about base closures and reductions. There is one base closure (EMA which has 3 aircraft out of a total fleet of 165-ish) and the reductions in Luton etc are going to be significantly offset by expansions elsewhere. Love them or hate them, our management have decided that these aircraft can make way more money in continental Europe than they can in the UK. If you are one of those getting compulsory resettlement from the UK to elsewhere then clearly that is very unsatisfactory. Nonetheless, in terms of the questions being asked here 'base closures and reductions' suggest a reduction in easyJet's overall fleet, when in fact the exact opposite is happening. We are still expanding, albeit at a less aggressive rate than was originally planned.
As others have pointed out, there is indeed a shortage of FOs right now within easyJet - that is likely to increase rather than decrease due to the ending of summer contracts. Some work is rumoured to be being offered to some of the cadets over the winter but I have not yet met anyone who has been formally offered that deal. There are no doubt big bonuses to be made for the managers who balance the figures correctly. As our previous Director of Flight Operations discovered, there are also some very quick ways out of the company for those that get the figures wrong and force us into cancelling flights. I wait with interest to see where the dice falls in the coming weeks.
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NSF
If someone from CTC spent 6 months with you to be laid off, are you sure that they would be called back before those at CTC who are waiting for line training. There must be nearly 150+ at CTC who are waiting for type ratings and line training? What would be cheaper for easyJet, calling back those who have done a 6 months stint already or new cadets wanting 6 months of line training?
If someone from CTC spent 6 months with you to be laid off, are you sure that they would be called back before those at CTC who are waiting for line training. There must be nearly 150+ at CTC who are waiting for type ratings and line training? What would be cheaper for easyJet, calling back those who have done a 6 months stint already or new cadets wanting 6 months of line training?
Some work is rumoured to be being offered to some of the cadets over the winter but I have not yet met anyone who has been formally offered that deal.
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(i.e. not a new intake of fresh cadets on the 6-month probation £1k/month contract.).
Are you serious 1k a month ? I realise these guys and gals are straight out of flight school but 1k a month to fly an Airbus for a major U.K airline is an absolute disgrace, even as a six month "probationary wage". Ten years ago I used to get paid 1.2K a month working five days part time in Tesco. No wonder Easy jet are hoovering up as many CTC graduates as possible its costing them absolute peanuts.
I don't mean to sound like im having a go, I know everyone is just trying to catch a break and I think it is great that there a chance to go into an airline straight out of training but this has got to stop, where on earth is people's self respect? Where are we going to be ten years on with this going on? I could maybe justify it if there was a permanent contract at the end, pending satisfactory performance of course but this is just pure taking advantage.
I think any company worth working for recognises the value of it employees and doesn't mess around, either you employ people on a permanent contract and pay them a proper salary commensurate with their qualifications or you do whats going on here and you just create bad feeling and de-motivation and how on earth the guys that have been with the company a long time feel about this I don't know but shame on you for allowing this to even be thought about by the company, it should have been put to bed and never seen again the moment it was mentioned by management.
I guess thats the world today it's "im alright jack" nobody gives a toss about anybody else as long as they still get their slice of the pie.
Just my two cents......
Are you serious 1k a month ? I realise these guys and gals are straight out of flight school but 1k a month to fly an Airbus for a major U.K airline is an absolute disgrace, even as a six month "probationary wage". Ten years ago I used to get paid 1.2K a month working five days part time in Tesco. No wonder Easy jet are hoovering up as many CTC graduates as possible its costing them absolute peanuts.I don't mean to sound like im having a go, I know everyone is just trying to catch a break and I think it is great that there a chance to go into an airline straight out of training but this has got to stop, where on earth is people's self respect? Where are we going to be ten years on with this going on? I could maybe justify it if there was a permanent contract at the end, pending satisfactory performance of course but this is just pure taking advantage.
I think any company worth working for recognises the value of it employees and doesn't mess around, either you employ people on a permanent contract and pay them a proper salary commensurate with their qualifications or you do whats going on here and you just create bad feeling and de-motivation and how on earth the guys that have been with the company a long time feel about this I don't know but shame on you for allowing this to even be thought about by the company, it should have been put to bed and never seen again the moment it was mentioned by management.
I guess thats the world today it's "im alright jack" nobody gives a toss about anybody else as long as they still get their slice of the pie.
Just my two cents......
AVIATOR1982 - do some research on the CTC Cadet scheme and you'll see how the £1k/month thing works, and whether it is right or wrong isn't the issue here. This isn't the thread for it - too many have been drawn off track on the same old debate.
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AVIATOR1982 - spot on.
Am I the only one who thinks this sounds very unsafe? Inexperienced FOs flying for a few days per month over the winter. Temporary, low-houred pilots over the summer. Ezy may some things going for it, contract pilots certainly ain't one of them.
All that counts now is a type-rating and a couple of hundred hours total time. We can basically get our supply of pilots for the summer from this source.
I know people who have been offered a certain number of days per month flying for easyJet over the winter on this basis.
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Regards safety I don't have an issue, Easyjet obviously have their check and training process and every pilot is required to meet those standards, if they didn't then the CAA would not allow them to operate.
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CTC cadets who were at ezy last summer will all be offered a flexi crew contract at easyjet this winter starting in November 2009 at bases like Lyon, Belfast, Rome, Milan, Paris.
Easyjet and Ryanair only take on Cadets because it's cheap
Easyjet and Ryanair only take on Cadets because it's cheap