Flybe to buy BMI?
But smoke and fire and all that....
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Well as time passes it will just take longer for one to get a command at Virgin. Most that have joined will have at least 3000-4000 hours. Those waiting for commands at Virgin at the moment have probably been there for around 8-9 years. That means that those ready for their command will probably have at least 9000 hrs. The argument of not having 'enough manual take-offs and landings to progress to command' does not seem to hold much weight when viewed in this context.
I am not at Virgin but I am using figures based on people I know who are there. Anyway I must shut up since this is a bmi/Flybe debate!
I am not at Virgin but I am using figures based on people I know who are there. Anyway I must shut up since this is a bmi/Flybe debate!
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Snigs,
I'm ex-bacon ex-flybe and post merger the Flybe pilot just senior to me had a date of joining that was 5 1/2 years after mine. Also the Bacon guys were prohibited from bidding onto the 195 for some time. I'm not sure that you did that bad.
regards.
I'm ex-bacon ex-flybe and post merger the Flybe pilot just senior to me had a date of joining that was 5 1/2 years after mine. Also the Bacon guys were prohibited from bidding onto the 195 for some time. I'm not sure that you did that bad.
regards.
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It would make sense to keep the jet fleet seniority apart from the prop fleet, imagine a high time dash guy bumping an experienced jet pilot from BMI..hmm glad its a simple equation.. done deal..my foot!
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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Point taken iggle piggle, but there was a strong feeling in the Flybe camp when the merger was progressing that if Flybe hadn't taken on BACon then it would have died, the crew would have been redundant and thus would have been at the bottom of any seniority list when they got their next job.
I'm not saying that this is fair or not, but should the same happen with the alleged BMI purchase, I guess that there would be similar murmurings. I think that is the point I'm trying to make.
I'm not saying that this is fair or not, but should the same happen with the alleged BMI purchase, I guess that there would be similar murmurings. I think that is the point I'm trying to make.
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Same thing happened when bmi bought BMED. I dropped 100 or so places down the seniority list, so what! This isn't a done deal and I can only see Flybe buying regional bits not Mainline. Flybe would be a fish out of water at LHR!!
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If the merger involves just regional and Baby. What will happen to the Acft and Crews / Ops Staff, Engineers etc. Would Flybe order more Dash8's and 195's to replace the 145's and Boeings?
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the crew would have been redundant and thus would have been at the bottom of any seniority list when they got their next job.
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The path of this thread wanders almost anywhere but where it should.
Heathrow slots.
That's the only worthwhile part of bmi.
The current climate and the poor management and organisation of bmi are responsible for the present losses (and the losses of many years previous). All it needs is some competent management.
Buy the Heathrow concern, just for the slots, ditch the entire appaling management and huge army of paper shufflers and start again. Offer pilots new contracts from scratch. (It'd be a complete seniority reshuffle, lads, take it or leave it). Keep the aircraft fleet as is for now and trim and downsize where necessary. When the economy picks up, you're sat on a goldmine.
As for baby and regional, who needs to buy either? What are they, that can't be built up, in better form, from nothing (though its too late for baby anyway - bmi missed the boat years before baby was formed, whilst Easyjet and Ryanair saw a real business opportunity and now control the market, except in the odd grubby corner where baby hides).
No idea what Lufthansa's problem is, except that they signed a deal that looked great many years ago. They failed to take account of leaving bmi management in charge in the meantime and now its the shambles it was always inevitably going to end up as.
Heathrow slots.
That's the only worthwhile part of bmi.
The current climate and the poor management and organisation of bmi are responsible for the present losses (and the losses of many years previous). All it needs is some competent management.
Buy the Heathrow concern, just for the slots, ditch the entire appaling management and huge army of paper shufflers and start again. Offer pilots new contracts from scratch. (It'd be a complete seniority reshuffle, lads, take it or leave it). Keep the aircraft fleet as is for now and trim and downsize where necessary. When the economy picks up, you're sat on a goldmine.
As for baby and regional, who needs to buy either? What are they, that can't be built up, in better form, from nothing (though its too late for baby anyway - bmi missed the boat years before baby was formed, whilst Easyjet and Ryanair saw a real business opportunity and now control the market, except in the odd grubby corner where baby hides).
No idea what Lufthansa's problem is, except that they signed a deal that looked great many years ago. They failed to take account of leaving bmi management in charge in the meantime and now its the shambles it was always inevitably going to end up as.
Mach 3
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When the economy picks up, you're sat on a goldmine.
As for baby, its the only part of the group making any money so thats not an immediate priority in terms of stemming losses. Plus it can easily be merged with Germanwings.
Regional may or may not be attractive to Flybe, who knows?
What seems scandalous, is that 10 months through the calendar year, nothing seems to have changed at bmi in terms of dealing with the part of the business haemorrhaging cash...
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This is one of the worst aspects of working in aviation. It makes no sense for an experienced pilot to be below an inexperienced one when it comes to a shot at command, no matter when they joined a particular company. Promotion should be on merit, not length of service.
(That is coming from someone who is in the left seat and is facing the potential prospect of ending up in the right to get a job back in the UK when things pick up!
)
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A quick sale at fire damage prices just doesn't fit with DL mentality or previous acquisitions.
Likewise LHR slots are like rocking horse manure and I really can't see DL disposing of them without examining all the various options thoroughly.
Lastly, the bmi CEO presented DL with 3 year plans for the 3 bmi elements only yesterday. So a deal with Flybe is unlikely to have been done without digesting the plans presented.
Likewise LHR slots are like rocking horse manure and I really can't see DL disposing of them without examining all the various options thoroughly.
Lastly, the bmi CEO presented DL with 3 year plans for the 3 bmi elements only yesterday. So a deal with Flybe is unlikely to have been done without digesting the plans presented.
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mister geezer
Promotion should be on merit, not length of service
You are partly right. Merit is only one part of the equation. Length of Service ie loyalty should also be rewarded.
How would you like to be somewhere patiently waiting to amass hours and a command only to be pipped at the post by someone who joined last week with 500 hours more than you?
How, in this case, do you define merit? Hours? Types on licence? Education? Background?
Also, a lot of scope for cliques to promote their own eg Air Force giving their own guys a leg up, Aussies giving their own a leg up, ex-Oxford cadets giving their own a leg up, ex-BA guys etc............
Get the picture?
(Incidentally, I have nothing against any of the above groups - just using them as an example.)
I'm afraid, despite what many think, Seniority (LOS) is still the system least open to manipulation. Let's not forget that merit is still a very important part of the equation. Without it, Seniority doesn't normally work.
You are partly right. Merit is only one part of the equation. Length of Service ie loyalty should also be rewarded.
How would you like to be somewhere patiently waiting to amass hours and a command only to be pipped at the post by someone who joined last week with 500 hours more than you?
How, in this case, do you define merit? Hours? Types on licence? Education? Background?
Also, a lot of scope for cliques to promote their own eg Air Force giving their own guys a leg up, Aussies giving their own a leg up, ex-Oxford cadets giving their own a leg up, ex-BA guys etc............
Get the picture?
(Incidentally, I have nothing against any of the above groups - just using them as an example.)
I'm afraid, despite what many think, Seniority (LOS) is still the system least open to manipulation. Let's not forget that merit is still a very important part of the equation. Without it, Seniority doesn't normally work.
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Slightly off thread,
Iggle Piggle, The merger worked for some ex Bacon guys, and not for others. Some of the ladies and gents that moved to flybe after SAM was shut as a Bacon base found themselves behind people on the seniority list that they were originally ahead of when they were still at Bacon.
Like most things what might be good for me, may not be good for you!
If the merger goes through, Good luck to all those at BMI. Flybe is not a bad place to work! I enjoyed it.
Iggle Piggle, The merger worked for some ex Bacon guys, and not for others. Some of the ladies and gents that moved to flybe after SAM was shut as a Bacon base found themselves behind people on the seniority list that they were originally ahead of when they were still at Bacon.
Like most things what might be good for me, may not be good for you!
If the merger goes through, Good luck to all those at BMI. Flybe is not a bad place to work! I enjoyed it.
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To be honest I hope this rumour is not true.
Flybe is a good company to work for. They are very good at what they do. If it is true then lets hope they don't deviate from the successful business model that we all know works very well. Don't get to big for your own boots.
Possible interesting times ahead!
CC99
Flybe is a good company to work for. They are very good at what they do. If it is true then lets hope they don't deviate from the successful business model that we all know works very well. Don't get to big for your own boots.
Possible interesting times ahead!
CC99
Mistrust in Management
On Bloomberg
British Airways Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh said Sept. 29 that the U.K. carrier considers BMI’s slots at London Heathrow airport “an attractive proposition” and has expressed interest to Lufthansa.
Regards
Exeng