Ex-BA Captain on jobseeker allowance
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Mmmayday38- I wish you all the best for the future. It has been absolutely outrageous the things people have been saying, here and in the papers and worst of all, from the cabin crew managerial and training department, without being able to overrule them. As a result of that incident and the terrible responsibility it placed on you, your career has been sent on an unintended path. I'm sorry you felt obliged to leave. Amongst pilot colleagues, you have universal respect, yet even in this forum, you have faced awful critical comments. I hope these can be squashed once and for all, because they are wrong, and subjecting an individual to such unjustified criticism is not what this forum is about.
Good luck, and I hope you get back to enjoying your aviating!
Good luck, and I hope you get back to enjoying your aviating!
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Too right about "signing on", I did as soon as I left my last flying job which was when I was 60, as the industry had not progressed at that time to letting 60 yr olds fly anymore. This protected my DSS pension. Cant remember if I received any money, maybe I didnt as I had BA and a few other pensions coming in. Once I passed 65 though I got and still am getting an enhanced DSS pension as I get something called GRP as well (not sure what that is).
Anyone who leaves their job, or is prevented from doing their job, before DSS retirement age should make sure they do this as soon as they can.
Also if you go overseas to work as I did when I took VR from BA when I was 49 there is or was a scheme where you got pension credits on your file for at least a year I think, for use when you returned or retired.
Dont take any notice of the jobs comforters who say you dont want to drag your family out to your new airline when you obtain a job which I am sure you will. My family loved being expats as did my wife. It was a bit of a shock for me as they expected you to fly a lot more than I had to in BA but life was good!!! When you were at home and when you were away it was just the same as BA good hotels and allowances etc.
Anyone who leaves their job, or is prevented from doing their job, before DSS retirement age should make sure they do this as soon as they can.
Also if you go overseas to work as I did when I took VR from BA when I was 49 there is or was a scheme where you got pension credits on your file for at least a year I think, for use when you returned or retired.
Dont take any notice of the jobs comforters who say you dont want to drag your family out to your new airline when you obtain a job which I am sure you will. My family loved being expats as did my wife. It was a bit of a shock for me as they expected you to fly a lot more than I had to in BA but life was good!!! When you were at home and when you were away it was just the same as BA good hotels and allowances etc.
Last edited by Tercarley; 23rd Sep 2009 at 12:21.
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So where is the help?
You go to work everyday and then one day something serious happens. Suddenly the skills, reactions and responses that you trained and briefed all those years for, are compressed into a few seconds, where what you do will have an impact that will affect hundreds of people for years afterwards.
Through no fault of your own, a large transport aircraft suffers a total power failure on the edge of a highly populated city at a late stage of its landing approach. The actions of the crew throughout and immediately afterwards result in everybody surviving and the only obvious significant damage being that to an insured lump of metal.
Despite a very positive outcome that results from the crews control, it is ironic in that it will probably be the last time they have very much control of anything that happens subsequently. With any serious incident or accident, there is an enormous level of trauma and stress that will affect all of the participants. Initially this is masked by the adrenalin and plethora of events taking place around you. The adrenalin will wear off over a few days, but the stress usually won't. The results for the individual can (and will) run an entire spectrum of emotions and physical consequences. Recovery from this condition takes time, and that period of time varies enormously from person to person. It is also often a great deal longer than the individual themselves thinks.
Despite a fantastic outcome, this accident was obviously a very high profile one. As soon as it happened, a whole host of machines went into action. The worlds press decended. The airlines management and public relations departments went into overdrive. The various operational and regulatory authorities demanded information. The Sky news/ CNN/ ITN/ BBC viewing public either had their own "expert" opinion on what happened, or wanted to have someone else provide one for them in a a 30 minute rolling news clip. Like the audience in a roman gladiatorial contest, they wanted to give their thumbs up or down as they were guided to see fit. They wanted labels, hero's and villains.
There can't have been many professional airline crewmembers who didn't cringe at the spectacle of this clearly traumatised crew being paraded before the worlds press within 24 hours. The smiles didn't hide a great deal. No doubt the action was by consent and seemed a good idea in the overall context of corporate support and good P.R. However it didn't appear to be putting the interests of the crewmembers welfare paramount?
With the media circus in full swing, as it became obvious that answers were (as often is the case) going to outlive the attention span of a soundbite audience, so others sought their 3 minutes of fame with their own tittle tattle, previously innocuous photographs, and supposed human interest stories. The TV cameras were quickly off covering something fresher, but the newspapers are able to extract a longer story lifespan by knocking down the heros they or a competitor created. Nevertheless, good, bad, hero, villain it all serves to fill the space that has to be sold for a profit.
In the meantime what happens to the individuals involved? How do they cope with the stress left behind after the interest has waned? How do their families cope? What are the long term repercussions? How have their own lives been changed? What help is still being afforded to them?
There must be a very real desire to make it all just go away and reset the world to a previous point in time, that is simply not going to happen. There must be a desire to eventually dismiss help, and simply get things back to a perception of normality. Even "professional celebrities" shun the stress that comes from the attention. Those that never courted it, must find it a greater version of hell. The unforseen consequences start to become apparant.
So my question is, where is the help for these people, but in this context, the crew involved in this accident? Irrespective of the fact that someone sought voluntary redundancy, I believe (and perhaps they do to) the previous employer has a moral obligation to provide whatever support and assistance it realistically and conceivably can. What of the pilots union (if one was involved)? What influence and pressure can their offices bring to help and support these individuals in continuing their careers and rebuilding their lives?
These are special cases that deserve special treatment. There will have been a great deal of stress and trauma to be overcome, and it is entirely justified that those with a vested interest and the ability to do so, go out of their way to provide whatever assitance they can.
Through no fault of your own, a large transport aircraft suffers a total power failure on the edge of a highly populated city at a late stage of its landing approach. The actions of the crew throughout and immediately afterwards result in everybody surviving and the only obvious significant damage being that to an insured lump of metal.
Despite a very positive outcome that results from the crews control, it is ironic in that it will probably be the last time they have very much control of anything that happens subsequently. With any serious incident or accident, there is an enormous level of trauma and stress that will affect all of the participants. Initially this is masked by the adrenalin and plethora of events taking place around you. The adrenalin will wear off over a few days, but the stress usually won't. The results for the individual can (and will) run an entire spectrum of emotions and physical consequences. Recovery from this condition takes time, and that period of time varies enormously from person to person. It is also often a great deal longer than the individual themselves thinks.
Despite a fantastic outcome, this accident was obviously a very high profile one. As soon as it happened, a whole host of machines went into action. The worlds press decended. The airlines management and public relations departments went into overdrive. The various operational and regulatory authorities demanded information. The Sky news/ CNN/ ITN/ BBC viewing public either had their own "expert" opinion on what happened, or wanted to have someone else provide one for them in a a 30 minute rolling news clip. Like the audience in a roman gladiatorial contest, they wanted to give their thumbs up or down as they were guided to see fit. They wanted labels, hero's and villains.
There can't have been many professional airline crewmembers who didn't cringe at the spectacle of this clearly traumatised crew being paraded before the worlds press within 24 hours. The smiles didn't hide a great deal. No doubt the action was by consent and seemed a good idea in the overall context of corporate support and good P.R. However it didn't appear to be putting the interests of the crewmembers welfare paramount?
With the media circus in full swing, as it became obvious that answers were (as often is the case) going to outlive the attention span of a soundbite audience, so others sought their 3 minutes of fame with their own tittle tattle, previously innocuous photographs, and supposed human interest stories. The TV cameras were quickly off covering something fresher, but the newspapers are able to extract a longer story lifespan by knocking down the heros they or a competitor created. Nevertheless, good, bad, hero, villain it all serves to fill the space that has to be sold for a profit.
In the meantime what happens to the individuals involved? How do they cope with the stress left behind after the interest has waned? How do their families cope? What are the long term repercussions? How have their own lives been changed? What help is still being afforded to them?
There must be a very real desire to make it all just go away and reset the world to a previous point in time, that is simply not going to happen. There must be a desire to eventually dismiss help, and simply get things back to a perception of normality. Even "professional celebrities" shun the stress that comes from the attention. Those that never courted it, must find it a greater version of hell. The unforseen consequences start to become apparant.
So my question is, where is the help for these people, but in this context, the crew involved in this accident? Irrespective of the fact that someone sought voluntary redundancy, I believe (and perhaps they do to) the previous employer has a moral obligation to provide whatever support and assistance it realistically and conceivably can. What of the pilots union (if one was involved)? What influence and pressure can their offices bring to help and support these individuals in continuing their careers and rebuilding their lives?
These are special cases that deserve special treatment. There will have been a great deal of stress and trauma to be overcome, and it is entirely justified that those with a vested interest and the ability to do so, go out of their way to provide whatever assitance they can.
Beazelbubs' post has to be in close running for post of the year.
Sadly,in BA most of the above is in short supply. I would suggest most people cope through friends and family help. No holidays on the Orient Express for flight crew in BA I'm afraid. After all, whose budget would it come off?
Sadly,in BA most of the above is in short supply. I would suggest most people cope through friends and family help. No holidays on the Orient Express for flight crew in BA I'm afraid. After all, whose budget would it come off?
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Tercarley
Big difference between joining SIA as a DEC all those years ago as a low profile ex BA Captain compared to what is being discussed. Even if SQ were looking for DEC's on the B777 I somehow doubt whether this individual would even get an interview as he comes with too much baggage.SQ would hate the publicity that this would attract.
Graduated pension was what you got in addition to the state retirement pension. I am surprised you carried on paying NI after 60 as surely you would have had more than enough contributions to get the full state pension presuming you carried on paying Class 3 stamps whilst in Singapore ?
Big difference between joining SIA as a DEC all those years ago as a low profile ex BA Captain compared to what is being discussed. Even if SQ were looking for DEC's on the B777 I somehow doubt whether this individual would even get an interview as he comes with too much baggage.SQ would hate the publicity that this would attract.
Graduated pension was what you got in addition to the state retirement pension. I am surprised you carried on paying NI after 60 as surely you would have had more than enough contributions to get the full state pension presuming you carried on paying Class 3 stamps whilst in Singapore ?
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To add to Bealzelbub's accurate post, it is also a shame that the crew did not receive good advice on being 'paraded' - like DON'T! Of course, they may have had the advice and decided to ignore it. How are the rest of the crew faring? Anyone know?
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I should like to echo Rainboe's less than toxic post.
Some of the things that have been said in this forum, the newspapers and within BA itself are absolute garbage put about by those who, in some cases, should know better.
None of us can begin to understand how Mmmayday38 and his crew must have felt at the time, immediately afterwards, and now. I am lucky enough to have a very small insight into this because he was gracious enough to spend a little time with me, an outsider, during a longhaul flight not too long after the event. I do not believe I am breaching his confidence when I say that, after an event such as this, ones values and outlook change and things that were perhaps overlooked or undervalued previously suddenly assume their rightful place in the queue. Perhaps there is something of this in his recent decision to pull the plug on BA.
Mmmayday38, I wish you and your family a successful outcome.
Cheers,
mcdhu
Some of the things that have been said in this forum, the newspapers and within BA itself are absolute garbage put about by those who, in some cases, should know better.
None of us can begin to understand how Mmmayday38 and his crew must have felt at the time, immediately afterwards, and now. I am lucky enough to have a very small insight into this because he was gracious enough to spend a little time with me, an outsider, during a longhaul flight not too long after the event. I do not believe I am breaching his confidence when I say that, after an event such as this, ones values and outlook change and things that were perhaps overlooked or undervalued previously suddenly assume their rightful place in the queue. Perhaps there is something of this in his recent decision to pull the plug on BA.
Mmmayday38, I wish you and your family a successful outcome.
Cheers,
mcdhu
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Gypsy
I am not saying that he would get a job in SIA in fact I know what you mean - you could not have a job other than as a "plain" line Captain in BA when you went to SIA. If you held a position as a Training Capt or anything similiar you were tested to the full. Appros 6 hours of take-offs and landings at Changi on my check out, no mistake on any one of them and if the a/craft hadnt been needed for a flight that night I would still have been doing them 12 hours later I thought.
I dont think that I did have enough contributions to not sign on. In fact I dont think that DSS would have insisted or let me if I had all the contributions needed - would they?
I am not saying that he would get a job in SIA in fact I know what you mean - you could not have a job other than as a "plain" line Captain in BA when you went to SIA. If you held a position as a Training Capt or anything similiar you were tested to the full. Appros 6 hours of take-offs and landings at Changi on my check out, no mistake on any one of them and if the a/craft hadnt been needed for a flight that night I would still have been doing them 12 hours later I thought.
I dont think that I did have enough contributions to not sign on. In fact I dont think that DSS would have insisted or let me if I had all the contributions needed - would they?
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Tercarley
Wow the Classic. That was a long time ago. Saw them all lined up at Changi in a neat row when they were taken out of service where they remained for ages.
Re D-O he was well after you but as you are in Alderney you would not know him.
I would not put it past the DSS to keep taking your money even if your contributions at 60 were adequate!
These days you can go online and get your state pension forecast.
Wow the Classic. That was a long time ago. Saw them all lined up at Changi in a neat row when they were taken out of service where they remained for ages.
Re D-O he was well after you but as you are in Alderney you would not know him.
I would not put it past the DSS to keep taking your money even if your contributions at 60 were adequate!
These days you can go online and get your state pension forecast.
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Gypsy
They didnt take money off me, as I said before, I just signed on at 60 and they credited me until they thought I had the 40 or 44 years contributions whichever was applicable at the' long ago time' that I am referring to.
When I went to SIA I flew the 747 300 only ever flew the Classic in BA. Didnt fly them in SIA, they were far too modern for the Classic. Left too early to fly the wingleted ones in Virgin. They came in just after I left.
I think I remember getting a pension forecast from the DSS online just before I was 65. Perhaps I am mistaken as I am obviously far too old to know these things.
They didnt take money off me, as I said before, I just signed on at 60 and they credited me until they thought I had the 40 or 44 years contributions whichever was applicable at the' long ago time' that I am referring to.
When I went to SIA I flew the 747 300 only ever flew the Classic in BA. Didnt fly them in SIA, they were far too modern for the Classic. Left too early to fly the wingleted ones in Virgin. They came in just after I left.
I think I remember getting a pension forecast from the DSS online just before I was 65. Perhaps I am mistaken as I am obviously far too old to know these things.
Last edited by Tercarley; 23rd Sep 2009 at 16:56.
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Wee Weasley Welshman why dont you let sleeping dogs lie and stop trying to pry!!!! As Redsnail put it..... "Life is meant to be enjoyed, not endured"
The Cav
The Cav
All the best to you and your family, Pete
I am a skipper with an orange outfit based in the UK and watched the drama unfold with my wife that afternoon on my TV in the lounge - we cancelled the shopping trip to watch BBC news 24! I do not even know you but I feel I do after what has happened.
Hope it all works out for you, I am sure it will...BTW I drive a Ford Fiesta too. LOVE IT!!!
I am a skipper with an orange outfit based in the UK and watched the drama unfold with my wife that afternoon on my TV in the lounge - we cancelled the shopping trip to watch BBC news 24! I do not even know you but I feel I do after what has happened.
Hope it all works out for you, I am sure it will...BTW I drive a Ford Fiesta too. LOVE IT!!!
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Mmmayday - I have never met you personally and possibly never will do. I would just like to extend to you my sincere best wishes for you and your family in the future. I concur completely with Rainboe, MCDHU and all the others wishing you well.
Many, many times since your accident I have asked myself the question, 'What would I have done?'. On several final approaches since then, like countless other pilots around the world I suspect, I have asked myself what I would do if both engines failed there and then. I have nothing but admiration for your personally and indeed the rest of your crew. I have no idea about any views about the situation within BA, but know that speculation by people who were not there can be very painful. I am also delighed you are recouping some money back from the State - albeit in very small quantities!
I truly wish you a top job with whatever airline would most please you and that you go on to enjoy another 20 years of great flying. The very, very best of luck in whatever path you choose.
Many, many times since your accident I have asked myself the question, 'What would I have done?'. On several final approaches since then, like countless other pilots around the world I suspect, I have asked myself what I would do if both engines failed there and then. I have nothing but admiration for your personally and indeed the rest of your crew. I have no idea about any views about the situation within BA, but know that speculation by people who were not there can be very painful. I am also delighed you are recouping some money back from the State - albeit in very small quantities!
I truly wish you a top job with whatever airline would most please you and that you go on to enjoy another 20 years of great flying. The very, very best of luck in whatever path you choose.
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Hi All
Thanks for all your encouraging words and support, I am humbled by people who don't even know me taking the time to pass on messages. They are appreciated by both Maria and I.
Some of you have passed on useful info which I will be following up tomorrow.
Mcdhu - no confidence breached!
Cavallier - WWW has let sleeping dogs lie ... as we are going to meet for a pint
Rainboe - a compliment from you is a compliment indeed!
BoeingMEL - thanks for your PM, give us a couple of weeks and we should sort something out
Paolo - I saved you being dragged round the shops then, sorry Mrs Paolo.
With all this time on my hands if anyone is passing the Worcester area and fancies a pint, PM me.
Thanks for all your encouraging words and support, I am humbled by people who don't even know me taking the time to pass on messages. They are appreciated by both Maria and I.
Some of you have passed on useful info which I will be following up tomorrow.
Mcdhu - no confidence breached!
Cavallier - WWW has let sleeping dogs lie ... as we are going to meet for a pint
Rainboe - a compliment from you is a compliment indeed!
BoeingMEL - thanks for your PM, give us a couple of weeks and we should sort something out
Paolo - I saved you being dragged round the shops then, sorry Mrs Paolo.
With all this time on my hands if anyone is passing the Worcester area and fancies a pint, PM me.
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Pete,
Saw the report online this morning and thought of that 'risky biz' last week...
You are a true gent!....I'll always try to have your six covered.
Regards to Maria.
Saw the report online this morning and thought of that 'risky biz' last week...
You are a true gent!....I'll always try to have your six covered.
Regards to Maria.
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The fact that MD38 has decided to leave BA despite the numerous benefits there, and given the current economic climate, surely demonstrates how difficult it must have been for him at BA.
It is a tragic loss to that business that he has decided on this decision and speaks volumes about life at BA after one has been through such a stressful period.
As an aside, you will never have any financial worries, as a world of training to so called professional services firms always awaits, if you so choose.....
Equally, what a change it makes to read a thread that is written in English by intelligent guys. This has reminded me of the calibre and integrity of a certain era of professional pilots.....
It is a tragic loss to that business that he has decided on this decision and speaks volumes about life at BA after one has been through such a stressful period.
As an aside, you will never have any financial worries, as a world of training to so called professional services firms always awaits, if you so choose.....
Equally, what a change it makes to read a thread that is written in English by intelligent guys. This has reminded me of the calibre and integrity of a certain era of professional pilots.....
Often PPRuNe is stuffed full of manure.
But amongst all that are the delicate veins of gold - such as this thread. Many of your professional peers Pete are interested, do care, can empathise, wish you well and would like to help even if that is limited to a simple pint down the road.
I think you both did well. The media are twats and despite deciding you were a hero I don't envy what they did to you.
WWW
But amongst all that are the delicate veins of gold - such as this thread. Many of your professional peers Pete are interested, do care, can empathise, wish you well and would like to help even if that is limited to a simple pint down the road.
I think you both did well. The media are twats and despite deciding you were a hero I don't envy what they did to you.
WWW
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Good luck Pete and please take with a pinch of salt, any comments you may come across on another popular aviation based forum. Freedom of speech and all that, but I do wish people would not preach about subjects/people they know nothing of.
I am sure you will get your chance soon, the market will pick up (as it always does) and an experienced DEC 777 guy like you should be worth his weight in gold.
Your reasons for leaving BA are your own.It was obviously a hard decision for both you and your wife to make and a brave one at that, but well thought out I'm sure.
Enjoy the time with your family and if you can, keep your chin up.
Remember, the media only build you up to knock you down at the first opportunity. They can be heartless.
All the best.
JAS
Nick
I am sure you will get your chance soon, the market will pick up (as it always does) and an experienced DEC 777 guy like you should be worth his weight in gold.
Your reasons for leaving BA are your own.It was obviously a hard decision for both you and your wife to make and a brave one at that, but well thought out I'm sure.
Enjoy the time with your family and if you can, keep your chin up.
Remember, the media only build you up to knock you down at the first opportunity. They can be heartless.
All the best.
JAS
Nick