Jet2.com T&C
Join Date: Aug 2009
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PM's Payrise
How can PM stand before us demanding we all to work together to get the company through the "difficult trading period ahead". Obviously he was only referring to the workforce and not the directors.
I am stunned that at a time when profit has been made on the back of a pay freeze for flight deck and a pay cut for cabin crew that the CEO has DOUBLED his BASIC pay, and thats without taking into account all the bonus payments he has received for increasing profits by reducing his employees terms and conditions.
I am also fed up to the back teeth of being told "you should be thankful to have a job....." as obviously PM thinks Jet2's in such good shape he can afford to spoil himself.
When the job market improves (and it will)the exodus of flight deck and cabin crew will hopefully make it near impossible to operate the airline. Lets remember that while FO's are reasonably easy to replace, senior managers, trainers, captains are not. Its these people who are already lining up their exits!
I'd like to be a fly on the wall when PM is trying to explain to the CAA the high turnover rate of management pilots ( who's turn is it to be Chief Pilot this week?) and how it really is safe to have such low experience levels in the newly promoted LHS alongside 250hr cadets.
I actually cannot find the words to express the level of disgust I feel towards this man and his cronies.
I am stunned that at a time when profit has been made on the back of a pay freeze for flight deck and a pay cut for cabin crew that the CEO has DOUBLED his BASIC pay, and thats without taking into account all the bonus payments he has received for increasing profits by reducing his employees terms and conditions.
I am also fed up to the back teeth of being told "you should be thankful to have a job....." as obviously PM thinks Jet2's in such good shape he can afford to spoil himself.
When the job market improves (and it will)the exodus of flight deck and cabin crew will hopefully make it near impossible to operate the airline. Lets remember that while FO's are reasonably easy to replace, senior managers, trainers, captains are not. Its these people who are already lining up their exits!
I'd like to be a fly on the wall when PM is trying to explain to the CAA the high turnover rate of management pilots ( who's turn is it to be Chief Pilot this week?) and how it really is safe to have such low experience levels in the newly promoted LHS alongside 250hr cadets.
I actually cannot find the words to express the level of disgust I feel towards this man and his cronies.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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These are the facts.
-If PM wants to sell up and put most of you out of a job and sit on his ar*e somewhere for the rest of his life he can and will do that.
-As pilots, you (we) are just workers. An expendable commodity. You can and will be replaced if and when necessary. There is always some young silly so and so who still wants to make a career out of aviation.
-BALPA will do nothing worthwhile for you whatsoever. They have neither balls or teeth.
-You still have a job. If you don't like it, then leave. Simple.
-Aviation will never be the same again as the "heydays" have passed us by.
-You will never make a lot of money working for someone else. You may get rich working for your self, with the associated risks involved. PM is demonstrating just that.
-If PM wants to sell up and put most of you out of a job and sit on his ar*e somewhere for the rest of his life he can and will do that.
-As pilots, you (we) are just workers. An expendable commodity. You can and will be replaced if and when necessary. There is always some young silly so and so who still wants to make a career out of aviation.
-BALPA will do nothing worthwhile for you whatsoever. They have neither balls or teeth.
-You still have a job. If you don't like it, then leave. Simple.
-Aviation will never be the same again as the "heydays" have passed us by.
-You will never make a lot of money working for someone else. You may get rich working for your self, with the associated risks involved. PM is demonstrating just that.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I dont care how much money anyone gets paid. I would be more than happy if PM paid himself £5million a year if the company could afford it, and lets be honest, with the profit Jet2 posted it can afford his £500k this year.
What really sticks in my throat is that he and his henchman ID, while asking the workforce to pull together for the sake of the company, have argued for and enforced: reduced Ts &Cs, reduced pay,increased levels of stress for those with young families now limited to a single weeks holiday in a six month stint. All this while doing nothing but pay himself double!
How can anyone leading a team of people ask them to make sacrifices while they do not? How is this pulling together? How does he or ID expect anyone to respect them in the future?
How can these actions be justified under any circumstances?
The short answer is they can't
What really sticks in my throat is that he and his henchman ID, while asking the workforce to pull together for the sake of the company, have argued for and enforced: reduced Ts &Cs, reduced pay,increased levels of stress for those with young families now limited to a single weeks holiday in a six month stint. All this while doing nothing but pay himself double!
How can anyone leading a team of people ask them to make sacrifices while they do not? How is this pulling together? How does he or ID expect anyone to respect them in the future?
How can these actions be justified under any circumstances?
The short answer is they can't
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And everybody i have discussed this with on the flightdeck agrees with you.
I'm amazed still that there are people still trying to defend this. They remind me of comical Ali.
We made a large profit, therefore PM should get a large bonus. Next year i hope he gets 2 million. But after a year of rallying everyone to the obvious tough times we face it just doesn't sit well to degrade the T&C's and sudgest paycuts for the crews, to then do the opposite for yourself. Willie Walsh took a months paycut and said "follow me"
I'm amazed still that there are people still trying to defend this. They remind me of comical Ali.
We made a large profit, therefore PM should get a large bonus. Next year i hope he gets 2 million. But after a year of rallying everyone to the obvious tough times we face it just doesn't sit well to degrade the T&C's and sudgest paycuts for the crews, to then do the opposite for yourself. Willie Walsh took a months paycut and said "follow me"
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at least working for FR you can give yourself a 33% payrise for the same work from the same base in newer aircraft.
..........still working a 100 hrs every month means you get 3 months off!
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757 Speedbrakes, if you get paid per sector and do 6 a day sounds like good money to me, you can still only do a 12 hour duty day on average a day. Seems comparable to what we do a lot of at the moment. I am in no way saying i wish to work for them. However their fixed roster pattern sounds very enticing, now its Jet2 had a fixed roster pattern that would i reckon get 110% support. 5on 4 off 5on 3 off i would happily do 6 sectors a day for PM as we never get more than 2 off, this would help those crew that live away from their bases. So maybe we should take the best bits of Ryanairs work practice and apply them to our own succesful model.
I do have one question to a previous poster Screwballburling, he used the the threat that PM would pull all his money out of Jet2. I would like him to explain the substance to this threat, will PM sell all his shares ? Remove working capital ? Lets be honest he isnt going to do either as he stands at the head of a very sucessful company making him good money and paying him 500k a year.
I do have one question to a previous poster Screwballburling, he used the the threat that PM would pull all his money out of Jet2. I would like him to explain the substance to this threat, will PM sell all his shares ? Remove working capital ? Lets be honest he isnt going to do either as he stands at the head of a very sucessful company making him good money and paying him 500k a year.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Hello Captain
I am in no position to make threats or throw my weight around. Yes PM would probably be mad to cash in, however should he wish to there is nothing to stop him is there?
Being one of you guys and nearing the end of my career in aviation (such as it is), I realised early on, crews will never stand together. This is why we are all working for peanuts at the moment and it may very well get worse. People are prepared to work for half what we are on and in the future they will do the job. The technology is in place to have pilot less aircraft, as you know, so it will not be such a giant leap for them to put a kid straight out of an arcade into the cockpit. Progress towards that is proceeding at an alarming rate from my observation.
My advise is to get out while you still can. I have left it too late so I am a slave to the industry, so cant do much else but wishing I could.
I am in no position to make threats or throw my weight around. Yes PM would probably be mad to cash in, however should he wish to there is nothing to stop him is there?
Being one of you guys and nearing the end of my career in aviation (such as it is), I realised early on, crews will never stand together. This is why we are all working for peanuts at the moment and it may very well get worse. People are prepared to work for half what we are on and in the future they will do the job. The technology is in place to have pilot less aircraft, as you know, so it will not be such a giant leap for them to put a kid straight out of an arcade into the cockpit. Progress towards that is proceeding at an alarming rate from my observation.
My advise is to get out while you still can. I have left it too late so I am a slave to the industry, so cant do much else but wishing I could.
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I got the Ryanair call on Friday, had an honest and frank chat about notice period, fixed roster, type of contract etc and although I haven't flown the 737 for quite some time I have been invited down to EMA for an interview and sim ride.
The interesting thing was that it was honest and frank, I wasn't promised anything, not given false hope or indeed promises, they appear to be very serious about LBA and are looking to recruit crews, They have realised that we are on 4 months notice and so intend to move quickly to get things in place for the base startup.
I have spoken to several Ryanair pilots, and it's what you see is what you get! A scooter gets round the parking, uniform isnt that much, all in return for a total package of just over a 100 grand, a fixed roster pattern, modern kit, almost none existent night stops or working out of base, etc etc etc!
Giving Ryanair a looking at even if you pursue it no further makes sense!!
The interesting thing was that it was honest and frank, I wasn't promised anything, not given false hope or indeed promises, they appear to be very serious about LBA and are looking to recruit crews, They have realised that we are on 4 months notice and so intend to move quickly to get things in place for the base startup.
I have spoken to several Ryanair pilots, and it's what you see is what you get! A scooter gets round the parking, uniform isnt that much, all in return for a total package of just over a 100 grand, a fixed roster pattern, modern kit, almost none existent night stops or working out of base, etc etc etc!
Giving Ryanair a looking at even if you pursue it no further makes sense!!
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Screwball
You are absolutely correct pilots don't stick together, well they dont unless they have a union or representative body that holds them together. Maybe that's why management literally are venimous to the concept of BALPA as at that point the pilot work force becomes cohesive so the old "divide and conquer" management technique then becomes useless with a representative body in place.
Yep pilots will work for buttons, thats been happening ever since they brought in the dreaded BCPL so that kids only needed 200 hours to fly a jet. In the good old days of 700 hours there was a rights of passage from PPL - Flying Instructor to CPL, ie people had already been earning as an FI and expected to step up from buttons as a salary to a pilots' salary. Now there are multi crew licences were a pilot may never have flown an aircraft by themselves, what is the world coming to. Thats what happens when you let Europeans lose on your licensing system.
As for PM selling up ? Not a snowball in hell chance, the reasons being. He holds such a large %age of the company shares that he would have to sell to an institution or another airline. If he sold on the open market someone off loading that amount of shares in one go would drive the price down so low his investement would become value less. Also Jet2 is on the cusp of taking the next step to bigger aircraft, i think he relishes the challenge. You have met him he loves being on the flight line, he smiles out there the guy loves it. So the threat by management that PM will sell up? Thats like threatening kids with the "bogey man" the scare of the unknown and the "what would we do without Philip" threat it isnt going to happen. Not for a while, he has a vision and i think he is the Alpha type who will complete his vision and complete the challenges he has set himself.
Ryanair trying to poach jet2 pilots, that may work in Jet2 favour as they want to reduce the Winter numbers anyway so hey publish the contacyt details those who want to jump ship and it may mean less unpaid leave.
As for "being a slave to the industry" sadly i think we all became slaves to this industry and environment as soon as we stepped in a cockpit for the first time. Ever since then the 9 to 5 has never really appealed. But even as slaves we want to make the terms and conditions on the slave ship as comfortable and tolerable as possible.
Screwball your posts are intriguing and informative keep them coming.
You are absolutely correct pilots don't stick together, well they dont unless they have a union or representative body that holds them together. Maybe that's why management literally are venimous to the concept of BALPA as at that point the pilot work force becomes cohesive so the old "divide and conquer" management technique then becomes useless with a representative body in place.
Yep pilots will work for buttons, thats been happening ever since they brought in the dreaded BCPL so that kids only needed 200 hours to fly a jet. In the good old days of 700 hours there was a rights of passage from PPL - Flying Instructor to CPL, ie people had already been earning as an FI and expected to step up from buttons as a salary to a pilots' salary. Now there are multi crew licences were a pilot may never have flown an aircraft by themselves, what is the world coming to. Thats what happens when you let Europeans lose on your licensing system.
As for PM selling up ? Not a snowball in hell chance, the reasons being. He holds such a large %age of the company shares that he would have to sell to an institution or another airline. If he sold on the open market someone off loading that amount of shares in one go would drive the price down so low his investement would become value less. Also Jet2 is on the cusp of taking the next step to bigger aircraft, i think he relishes the challenge. You have met him he loves being on the flight line, he smiles out there the guy loves it. So the threat by management that PM will sell up? Thats like threatening kids with the "bogey man" the scare of the unknown and the "what would we do without Philip" threat it isnt going to happen. Not for a while, he has a vision and i think he is the Alpha type who will complete his vision and complete the challenges he has set himself.
Ryanair trying to poach jet2 pilots, that may work in Jet2 favour as they want to reduce the Winter numbers anyway so hey publish the contacyt details those who want to jump ship and it may mean less unpaid leave.
As for "being a slave to the industry" sadly i think we all became slaves to this industry and environment as soon as we stepped in a cockpit for the first time. Ever since then the 9 to 5 has never really appealed. But even as slaves we want to make the terms and conditions on the slave ship as comfortable and tolerable as possible.
Screwball your posts are intriguing and informative keep them coming.
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f/o bashing
This is turning into a right first officer bashing forum...shame on you all! I've flown with the low houred captains in question and would have as much, if not more confidence in their ability during an emergency than some of the more senior flightdeck members. As for a right of passage to earn a position flying a jet.... times have changed - live with it.
Pilots will never stand together with outdated attitudes like some on this forum
Pilots will never stand together with outdated attitudes like some on this forum
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3 bars, i cant see where anyone is bashing F/Os, one person has made comments on the system changing in their opinion for the worse in the way people are trained for the job, perhaps an appointment at your local clinic to get the chip on shoulder removed !
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Let's get BALPA recognition before the company push through this part time working scheme. How many times do we have to sit and take it on the chin before we realise that the company will continue to screw everything they can out of us, until we unite together and NEGOTIATE terms that suit us and not just management?!
Annual increments - taken away a few years ago for new joiners and promoted pilots. I believe that increments were removed under the guise that it is "old fashioned" to give people pay rises each year! Old fashioned to reward loyalty and hard work! What a joke
No pay rise for us this year, but PM and others managed to take a bl**dy big one.
Holiday - only allowed to use 7 day's holiday during the 6 month summer period.
Part time working - the company are asking for volunteers at the moment, but we all know that they are hoping to make this the norm. What if they don't get enough volunteers? And for anyone volunteering - I hope you are taking legal advice to look over your new contract!
I am not saying that we should not be trying to save the company money, I am saying that BALPA have a lot of experience in negotiating things like the proposed 80% salary for 58% working contracts and we should tap into their experience and use BALPA to make sure management do not screw us AGAIN.
Annual increments - taken away a few years ago for new joiners and promoted pilots. I believe that increments were removed under the guise that it is "old fashioned" to give people pay rises each year! Old fashioned to reward loyalty and hard work! What a joke
No pay rise for us this year, but PM and others managed to take a bl**dy big one.
Holiday - only allowed to use 7 day's holiday during the 6 month summer period.
Part time working - the company are asking for volunteers at the moment, but we all know that they are hoping to make this the norm. What if they don't get enough volunteers? And for anyone volunteering - I hope you are taking legal advice to look over your new contract!
I am not saying that we should not be trying to save the company money, I am saying that BALPA have a lot of experience in negotiating things like the proposed 80% salary for 58% working contracts and we should tap into their experience and use BALPA to make sure management do not screw us AGAIN.
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For a start its not 80% pay for 56% work - its 80% pay for 80% work!!
By the time you factor in your leave, which is an entitlement, not an extra (there's one good bit of EU law for you KingKong), the fact you have to do your sims and ground school recurrent in the winter months, thats at a guess, an extra month and a half your losing...............
By the time you factor in your leave, which is an entitlement, not an extra (there's one good bit of EU law for you KingKong), the fact you have to do your sims and ground school recurrent in the winter months, thats at a guess, an extra month and a half your losing...............
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Exactly 757 Speedbrakes. Any deal like this needs to be sorted out properly with the help of experienced people like BALPA. I believe they are doing something similar at Easyjet, but I bet they are getting a fair deal, unlike the one we would get.
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Well they have below minimum pilots as it is, about 3 crews per 757. There's a lot of the 737 guys supposed to be coming over but will they have to pay for their types? If it's an extra two 757's they'll have to crew them somehow.
Sadly they'll have sat down and said that 'we barely scraped by with crews this summer but
em, they'll have to work harder and we can them off in the winter so we won't get anyone else 
Sadly they'll have sat down and said that 'we barely scraped by with crews this summer but
em, they'll have to work harder and we can them off in the winter so we won't get anyone else
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I do have to say that quite frankly i'm more than a little upset that Meeson has been increasing the size of his salary whilst trying to reduce ours, A true boss leads from the front and drinks well from the trough in the good times but when times are hard shows compassion with those laid off and rides the famine with his workers!
This shows the management for what it is!
This shows the management for what it is!
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757 speedbrakes totally agree with your calculation. However i believe that as stated in a crew room recently if no leave in summer and not including the accrued annual leave was a show stopper for them, then they may go back to the drawing board and include it . Sadly this needs proper professional negotiation and thats no disrespect to what seems at the moment the "one man crew council" .. who is it by the way as no communication has been received about who is actually negotiating on our behalf ????