Astraeus A320 Contracts
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And so, in conclusion......
You've lost me there Mr Gusset.
You suggested possible casualties at AEU and then blamed the Union (Post #280)?
I KNOW that IALPA does not represent any AEU employees - so what are you trying to say?
As for me drawing other conclusions? What might they be? That you're an AEU pilot perhaps? Would that be an incorrect conclusion?
The Ska-bearbaiter
You suggested possible casualties at AEU and then blamed the Union (Post #280)?
I KNOW that IALPA does not represent any AEU employees - so what are you trying to say?
As for me drawing other conclusions? What might they be? That you're an AEU pilot perhaps? Would that be an incorrect conclusion?
The Ska-bearbaiter
Last edited by ska-bearbaiter; 18th Dec 2009 at 13:36.
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I'm still confused. This Ska-beerswiller chapie appears to be talking out of his wotsits.
I'm pretty certain that Astraeus Pilots were not involved in flying Aer Lingus Aircraft on Aer Lingus routes. Some were involved in Line Checking to Astraeus procedures. Astraeus A320 pilots were recruited for their own A320 operation.
I'm also (fairly ) certain that Astraeus are union affiliated.
It therefore follows, that the "loss" of the Aerlingus "contract" should have no material effect on Astraeus Pilots.
At least now, if Aer Lingus pilots sadly end up losing their jobs, they will have no-one left to blame, but themselves.
I'm pretty certain that Astraeus Pilots were not involved in flying Aer Lingus Aircraft on Aer Lingus routes. Some were involved in Line Checking to Astraeus procedures. Astraeus A320 pilots were recruited for their own A320 operation.
I'm also (fairly ) certain that Astraeus are union affiliated.
It therefore follows, that the "loss" of the Aerlingus "contract" should have no material effect on Astraeus Pilots.
At least now, if Aer Lingus pilots sadly end up losing their jobs, they will have no-one left to blame, but themselves.
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Your wrong jmc. You shouldn't post until your "absolutely certain". They were taking our work away and good riddance to them. And Merry xmas to Mr Coyle as well. Shame he had nothing to go to. Hopefully he has a nice long gardening leave period to enjoy whilst he waits to jump back into FR.
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FFS JMC-man if you don't know anything about the issue please don't post. Astraeus pilots flew Aer Lingus (our) aircraft on our routes while we sat at home on reduced pay under the threat of redundancy. How simply can I put it to you and the several dullards who persist in almost willful stupidity in interpreting this union bust action as anything else. As to Astraeus, I know not and care less as to what this means for them. Thrive ,wither just step away from the Aer Lingus aircraft.
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Absoultely, the AEU Pilots flew their own plus the AL airframes, the AEU training dept was beefed up for A320,It follows that it is more cost effective to operate several a/c rather than one, it also follows that the AEU A320 waiting for ad-hoc and effectively being a reserve to the schedule flights is not as attractive, both in terms of crew numbers and revenues. AEU crews must be "at risk". AEU is represented by the IPF on a voluntary basis, the IPF believe in "working with airlines", and unlike IALPA will not bang the drum and threaten stikes etc, the AL pilots were never " at risk". Why don't Al just bugger off back to Dublin? because the GTW Routes are profitable! Maybe AEU should start up out of Dublin. No, I don't work at AEU.
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surely now AL has a clear run to make all and sundry redundant now. Having AEU on board meant under labour law they could'nt pull the pin.....they can now and will possibly decimate the no's and re hire under a new AL umbrella co.
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Oh lord help us Gusset's got his knickers in a twist. Astraeus got 1 A320 (an old beater that had been parked up in Spain for some time) in order to get the type on its AOC, and then started recruiting for its "A320 fleet" all this in secret at the behest of Aer Lingus management. Then Kirky my little nipper Aer Lingus put our Belfast and Gatwick based A320's on Astraeus's AOC informed our pilots at those bases they were now Astreaus pilots and told the rest of us that as Aer Lingus now had fewer aircraft our jobs were surplus to requirements. Maybe Astraeus should start flying from Gatwick,as I say, I don't give a toss. IALPA in this instance is Aer Lingus pilots who work with,for & in Aer Lingus we have been that way since IALPA's foundation. The IPF thing sounds great and I look forward to seeing how they work with Astraeus in the coming months. Ps. this is not a victory dance lest you be mistaken we in Aer Lingus can now address our issues outside of the glare of imbecilic gaze, but I suspect not.
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Long time listener, first time caller.
I think perhaps that an update's required in the "Breaking News":
History of Astraeus Airlines
Or have I missed something?
Many early posts on this thread seemed to big-up the AEU operation and especially its expansion - albeit at the expense of EI's own crews. Indeed, one poster in particular seems to champion the latter issue without shame whilst, at the same time asserting that AEU's pilots have a right to jobs. Call me old fashioned, but don't the people that hold those jobs already have first dibs on them?
Also, correspondents pleading in mitigation that AEU weren't the only show in town when it came to bidding for the AL contract merits a rethink. It says only one thing - AEU were the lowest bidders.
I can only assume that the EI crews that stand to be unemployed (effectively facing the same unemployment that AEU's have managed to avoid through their Company's "cuckoo" approach to creating job opportunities) are all single, have no debts and would actually welcome the opportunity to put their feet up - maybe watch a bit of daytime TV like Jeremy Kyle's show (if they can receive it in the South?). Maybe they could even appear on it only instead of "My father's my brother and we live with my sister-mother" as a topic for discussion, they could have "I forgave them for stealing my job - I realise it was market forces wot dunnit"
Finally - back to Astraeus' own website - can we expect to see a glowing testimonial from Aer Lingus' Management in due course? That begs a question: Was it a "Thanks, let's do lunch sometime - call my secretary" departure? Or was it a Sir Alan Sugar/Apprentice farewell?
Astraeus Airlines Testimonials
I think perhaps that an update's required in the "Breaking News":
History of Astraeus Airlines
Or have I missed something?
Many early posts on this thread seemed to big-up the AEU operation and especially its expansion - albeit at the expense of EI's own crews. Indeed, one poster in particular seems to champion the latter issue without shame whilst, at the same time asserting that AEU's pilots have a right to jobs. Call me old fashioned, but don't the people that hold those jobs already have first dibs on them?
Also, correspondents pleading in mitigation that AEU weren't the only show in town when it came to bidding for the AL contract merits a rethink. It says only one thing - AEU were the lowest bidders.
I can only assume that the EI crews that stand to be unemployed (effectively facing the same unemployment that AEU's have managed to avoid through their Company's "cuckoo" approach to creating job opportunities) are all single, have no debts and would actually welcome the opportunity to put their feet up - maybe watch a bit of daytime TV like Jeremy Kyle's show (if they can receive it in the South?). Maybe they could even appear on it only instead of "My father's my brother and we live with my sister-mother" as a topic for discussion, they could have "I forgave them for stealing my job - I realise it was market forces wot dunnit"
Finally - back to Astraeus' own website - can we expect to see a glowing testimonial from Aer Lingus' Management in due course? That begs a question: Was it a "Thanks, let's do lunch sometime - call my secretary" departure? Or was it a Sir Alan Sugar/Apprentice farewell?
Astraeus Airlines Testimonials
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Whilst you might gloat, I advise extreme caution. Some pilots in Aer Lingus are about to find out they don't have a job. I take no joy in passing this on, but it is factual.
I believe another airline tie up is to be announced with Aer Lingus very shortly in the form of another Irish Regional carrier.
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Not that it will make a blind bit of difference to most, but ALL of the Airbus line pilots employed by Astraeus for this shambles had no idea that the contract involved Aer Lingus. It was sold as a 12-month agency contract and the actual contract turned out to be open-ended. There was even chat from HR about moving over to a full-time Astraeus contract after the initial contract period. In short, Astraeus fed them a load of bull
!
Yes, you could argue that the airbus guys could of walked when the Aer Lingus announcement was made. But if you had no other offers on the table, and the alternative was unemployment, what would you do (honestly)? It's not hard to believe that most didn't have any other offers at the time, or even now for that matter.
!Yes, you could argue that the airbus guys could of walked when the Aer Lingus announcement was made. But if you had no other offers on the table, and the alternative was unemployment, what would you do (honestly)? It's not hard to believe that most didn't have any other offers at the time, or even now for that matter.
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Q. Exactly which pilots in Gatwick employed by Aer Lingus and members of IALPA are being made redundant? A. None
Q. Which group of pilots were breaking an IFALPA directive.....Aer Lingus? Nope
Q. Which group of pilots were breaking an IFALPA directive.....Aer Lingus? Nope
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Quote from standbyils:
"AEU was never contracted to fly Union-busting flights to/from Dublin. This was never suggested by either party"
Maybe not verbally suggested, but nevertheless it was implicit - otherwise why the skullduggery in procuring (soliciting?) AEU's services? Sorry, Sir, but your line is disngenuous in the extreme.
LL - you've got to be either a. brave or b. stupid or c. management. Who else would have the ruddy nerve to post after standbyils' "full-stop" post?
c9m
"AEU was never contracted to fly Union-busting flights to/from Dublin. This was never suggested by either party"
Maybe not verbally suggested, but nevertheless it was implicit - otherwise why the skullduggery in procuring (soliciting?) AEU's services? Sorry, Sir, but your line is disngenuous in the extreme.
LL - you've got to be either a. brave or b. stupid or c. management. Who else would have the ruddy nerve to post after standbyils' "full-stop" post?
c9m
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Standby, there is no gloating whatsoever. Can you be so naive as to believe we don't know our own contracts or are you so arrogant as to believe you have spotted what we have missed. In either event it is not now nor has it ever been your business. Best of luck, have a long and rewarding career and if ever you do become established somewhere remember what you and your "professional" pals were complicit in trying to do to us.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Your own company 'did it to you'. AEU was just responding to a business opportunity, like several other companies were trying to do as well. It's business, get over it. Look to your own relationship with your own company now and try and see what you can do to rescue your employment opportunities. Stop transferring what you see as 'blame' to another company in another country. Who did this to you, and who is sharpening the broom? Having decided to take this direction, who 'changed their mind' and reneged on the contract? And why- it will be interesting to see this through to a conclusion. Chances are current AL pilots will be walking en masse long before AEU pilots.
Good luck if you think that FR is riding to the rescue. What do they need with 320s and vastly overpaid pilots? But that is their business. You lot don't seem to understand it was a standalone operation that impinged in no way on any AEU pilots. None of us knew what was going on, and had no interest in any way. That the operation is going will be unfelt as well. There are times when an industrial battle is lost. Your company is the one that is sticking it to you, and you know why. All this abuse aimed at merely a tool of your own Board's decision must be therapeutic, but really doesn't go any way to solving your problem. Don't waste your energy on me or AEU, you have your Stalingrad to face.
Good luck if you think that FR is riding to the rescue. What do they need with 320s and vastly overpaid pilots? But that is their business. You lot don't seem to understand it was a standalone operation that impinged in no way on any AEU pilots. None of us knew what was going on, and had no interest in any way. That the operation is going will be unfelt as well. There are times when an industrial battle is lost. Your company is the one that is sticking it to you, and you know why. All this abuse aimed at merely a tool of your own Board's decision must be therapeutic, but really doesn't go any way to solving your problem. Don't waste your energy on me or AEU, you have your Stalingrad to face.
Last edited by Rainboe; 18th Dec 2009 at 20:17.
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Something's rotten in Wicklow.....
First Clown:
A pestilence on him for a mad rogue! 'a pour'd a flagon
of Rhenish on my head once. This same skull, sir, was, sir,
Evan's skull, the King's jester.
Hamlet:
This? [Takes the skull]
First Clown:
E'en that.
Hamlet:
Alas, poor Evan! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite
jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath bore me on his back a
thousand times, and now how abhorr'd in my imagination it is!
My gorge rises at it.
Leo:
And how thine airline fails upon the short devices of treachery's tiniest son.
Hark now, on trickery's trick, for Albion's shore did a start renew, though star crossed lovers ne'er to be, the Shamrock's fortunes fail shorter still.
A pestilence on him for a mad rogue! 'a pour'd a flagon
of Rhenish on my head once. This same skull, sir, was, sir,
Evan's skull, the King's jester.
Hamlet:
This? [Takes the skull]
First Clown:
E'en that.
Hamlet:
Alas, poor Evan! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite
jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath bore me on his back a
thousand times, and now how abhorr'd in my imagination it is!
My gorge rises at it.
Leo:
And how thine airline fails upon the short devices of treachery's tiniest son.
Hark now, on trickery's trick, for Albion's shore did a start renew, though star crossed lovers ne'er to be, the Shamrock's fortunes fail shorter still.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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No that's not right. It's 'Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well, Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how .......'?
But 44 year old Eng Lit isn't really telling me what that has to do with it?
Twelth Night was much better. Really fancied the 17 year old twins who starred in it. They'll be grannies now.
But 44 year old Eng Lit isn't really telling me what that has to do with it?
Twelth Night was much better. Really fancied the 17 year old twins who starred in it. They'll be grannies now.