RYANAIR thoughts
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I have always loved reading these posts, and always marvel at the nievity of my colleagues in RYR.
IT still baffles me that people think BALPA is trying to get recognition in RYR. In real terms BALPA dont care, and I dont mean that in a bad way.
They are a business aswell, the point here is their business is representing the interest's of their members (who pay the bills).
The RYR BALPA compaign, started by BALPA ?? NO.
They are here for and only becuase we the RYR pilots have asked them to come and do it.
BALPA is the pilots, the only way anything gets done is becuase the piltos want it. BALPA gain nothing from any of it except membership fees from those that are members.
I want BALPA or any kind of union to represent me and my interest becuase I know, having asked question at the numerous RYR pay deals I have been at, and having walked out of 2 that the management not only dont care about your questions / opinions, it is blatently obvious their not even listening.
Take the last pay deal, negotiate with us ?? Ok on advise from BALPA we did just to have the proof it doesnt work.
What did RYR do, they actually handed us the proof, whether they realise it or not.
You cant draft a pay deal, say come back to us, which we did with suggestions, only to be sent an ammended deal that take into account none of what you suggest but miraculously is almost identical to every other base.
Either we all asked exactly the same question that thye were not prepared to answer, or the ammended deal was already written before they came to us.
Now I leave you to draw your own conclusions on that, but to me its pretty obvious.
In conclusion, BALPA = RYR PILOTS (for the benefit of our campaign).
Our livelyhood, T&C's, lifestyle self respect and proffesionalism are in our hands not some third party.
Only if we succeed in recognition, withou it we carry on with the same do as your told this is what your getting way of life. = No control what so ever.
IT still baffles me that people think BALPA is trying to get recognition in RYR. In real terms BALPA dont care, and I dont mean that in a bad way.
They are a business aswell, the point here is their business is representing the interest's of their members (who pay the bills).
The RYR BALPA compaign, started by BALPA ?? NO.
They are here for and only becuase we the RYR pilots have asked them to come and do it.
BALPA is the pilots, the only way anything gets done is becuase the piltos want it. BALPA gain nothing from any of it except membership fees from those that are members.
I want BALPA or any kind of union to represent me and my interest becuase I know, having asked question at the numerous RYR pay deals I have been at, and having walked out of 2 that the management not only dont care about your questions / opinions, it is blatently obvious their not even listening.
Take the last pay deal, negotiate with us ?? Ok on advise from BALPA we did just to have the proof it doesnt work.
What did RYR do, they actually handed us the proof, whether they realise it or not.
You cant draft a pay deal, say come back to us, which we did with suggestions, only to be sent an ammended deal that take into account none of what you suggest but miraculously is almost identical to every other base.
Either we all asked exactly the same question that thye were not prepared to answer, or the ammended deal was already written before they came to us.
Now I leave you to draw your own conclusions on that, but to me its pretty obvious.
In conclusion, BALPA = RYR PILOTS (for the benefit of our campaign).
Our livelyhood, T&C's, lifestyle self respect and proffesionalism are in our hands not some third party.
Only if we succeed in recognition, withou it we carry on with the same do as your told this is what your getting way of life. = No control what so ever.
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ryanair recruitment scam
GREAT READ,,,,One thing they don't mention though is that there are around 220 cadets about to start training,YOU SAID
WELL THE MORE THEY TRAIN THE MORE CASH THEY MAKE BUT THEY MUST TERMINATE STAFF TO KEEP THESE TRAINING FEE'S ROLLING IN...
RYANAIR HAVE BEEN SCAMMING FOR TRAINING FEE'S FOR 4 YEARS,
I HAVE DONE THE HOME WORK FOR 8 MONTHS COS MY 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER GOT SCAMMED BY RYANAIR/CREWLINK...
I PROTEST FOR PROBATION CABIN CREW WHICH MAKE THESE SCAMMERS LOADS OF CASH BUT SCAMMING PILOTS IS VERY BIG MONEY..
TAKECARE YOU ALL OUT THERE..
http://ryanairdontcare.********.com/
WELL THE MORE THEY TRAIN THE MORE CASH THEY MAKE BUT THEY MUST TERMINATE STAFF TO KEEP THESE TRAINING FEE'S ROLLING IN...
RYANAIR HAVE BEEN SCAMMING FOR TRAINING FEE'S FOR 4 YEARS,
I HAVE DONE THE HOME WORK FOR 8 MONTHS COS MY 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER GOT SCAMMED BY RYANAIR/CREWLINK...
I PROTEST FOR PROBATION CABIN CREW WHICH MAKE THESE SCAMMERS LOADS OF CASH BUT SCAMMING PILOTS IS VERY BIG MONEY..
TAKECARE YOU ALL OUT THERE..
http://ryanairdontcare.********.com/
Last edited by ryanairdontcare; 2nd Sep 2010 at 23:30.
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I cannot comprehend the manifest inability so many posters have of the reality of the current situation.
We are all in the midst of a global financial crisis: the aviation industry is in meltdown. Meandering through the threads on this board brings you a precis of the status quo: the BA thread discusses losses at BA and cutbacks in employment, the Virgin thread deals with pilot redundancies at VS. The bmi and bmibaby staff face uncertainty following the takeover by LH, easyjet reported interim losses of £129.8M to March 2009.
The largest and best known carriers in the country are cutting back and suffering the pains of the recession: the list of collapses in the last year is long and distinguished.
So your solution is - let's start a campaign for union recognition in an Irish company which made a small profit, is expanding and recruiting and is universally known to be antipathetic to unions.
If the few tubthumpers persist in running headlong over the cliff and the lemmings blindly follow them you will find that the smaller UK bases will close first with the aircraft transferred to existing and new European bases and the marginal routes chopped; the more lucrative routes will just be operated as W patterns from Europe.
If you are unable to grasp the simplicity of this response, which will be presented as a commercial necessity due to increasing costs in the UK regions, you really should stick to just flying the aircraft and leave the more complex decision making to others.
Whether you are in the pro-BALPA or anti-BALPA camp matters not: the outcome of pursuing this ill-timed campaign will be an unmitigated disaster for pilots, cabin crew, engineers and ground staff throughout the UK, both those working for Ryanair and their contracting companies and those youngsters looking for their first job in the industry.
We are all in the midst of a global financial crisis: the aviation industry is in meltdown. Meandering through the threads on this board brings you a precis of the status quo: the BA thread discusses losses at BA and cutbacks in employment, the Virgin thread deals with pilot redundancies at VS. The bmi and bmibaby staff face uncertainty following the takeover by LH, easyjet reported interim losses of £129.8M to March 2009.
The largest and best known carriers in the country are cutting back and suffering the pains of the recession: the list of collapses in the last year is long and distinguished.
So your solution is - let's start a campaign for union recognition in an Irish company which made a small profit, is expanding and recruiting and is universally known to be antipathetic to unions.
If the few tubthumpers persist in running headlong over the cliff and the lemmings blindly follow them you will find that the smaller UK bases will close first with the aircraft transferred to existing and new European bases and the marginal routes chopped; the more lucrative routes will just be operated as W patterns from Europe.
If you are unable to grasp the simplicity of this response, which will be presented as a commercial necessity due to increasing costs in the UK regions, you really should stick to just flying the aircraft and leave the more complex decision making to others.
Whether you are in the pro-BALPA or anti-BALPA camp matters not: the outcome of pursuing this ill-timed campaign will be an unmitigated disaster for pilots, cabin crew, engineers and ground staff throughout the UK, both those working for Ryanair and their contracting companies and those youngsters looking for their first job in the industry.
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RSS - when I boil down your argument I conclude your worries (or at least your arguments) come down to fear - the bullying and hectoring attitude of your employer has got to you.
Carriers are retrenching and some have collapsed. This is a normal part of business. Don't blame the unions, blame the management. Poor management is always the root cause of problems. Poor management doesn't manage it's yield correctly, becomes too reliant on one part of it's customer base, over expands in the good times without considering what will happen in the downturn, ill-judges it's fuel hedging policy, or due to management vanity and machismo undertakes an ill-considered and expensive attempt to take over a rival. Ryanair management is in my view guilty of the last one, probably guilty of the second from last and time will tell if it's guilty of the one before.
The username by the way. I take my username from a small village in North Yorks which I have connection with. You are on Officer on an aircraft (I can't assert your rank), is a violent, drug taking American rap star really appropriate?
Good luck to all in Ryanair. Backbone and a steady nerve is required at this time. The rewards will follow in the years to come.
Carriers are retrenching and some have collapsed. This is a normal part of business. Don't blame the unions, blame the management. Poor management is always the root cause of problems. Poor management doesn't manage it's yield correctly, becomes too reliant on one part of it's customer base, over expands in the good times without considering what will happen in the downturn, ill-judges it's fuel hedging policy, or due to management vanity and machismo undertakes an ill-considered and expensive attempt to take over a rival. Ryanair management is in my view guilty of the last one, probably guilty of the second from last and time will tell if it's guilty of the one before.
The username by the way. I take my username from a small village in North Yorks which I have connection with. You are on Officer on an aircraft (I can't assert your rank), is a violent, drug taking American rap star really appropriate?
Good luck to all in Ryanair. Backbone and a steady nerve is required at this time. The rewards will follow in the years to come.
through in LHC as well.
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pilot 999
You would knight them for what exactly? Services against employee and customer relations? If I read you correctly we would be back to a feudal system in pretty short order. In fact, reviewing your previous posts I came across this from 2007
A truly wonderful individual.
live is good here , home every night, the money is good, excellant roster, and if i ever come across moaning so/fo like this lot. a lit slapper away from work would sort it out.
Last edited by al446; 28th Jun 2009 at 17:09.
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Barden
You cant see the reality for the bull**** that you are being fed from and by those set upon the BALPA road to disaster.
As RSS has said the time is NOT right to force Union recognition, this must wait until the market favours pilots and not vice versa.
The industry is in melt down and there are no secure jobs in our industry.
Should you wish to force the BALPA issue you will only make the Ryanair contracted pilots futures more unstable than they are already.
With a company that is as diverse as Ryanair with bases and Brookfield crews you are on a slippery slope to the unemployment line.
Ryanair contracted pilots are the only ones that BALPA can or will support, and as is the case today the Brookfield pilots cannot be brought into the BALPA fold until there is agreement with Ryanair Brookfield and BALPA (Hell freezing over comes to mind)
The same problems are also evident in other companies seeking representation, who have European bases and differing contracts of employment.
Back off for a year or 18 months, work to keep jobs during that time then look at the big picture, not just individual base or pilot goals, and then in which direction you should then go.
Having been in the job que for several months on more than one occassion, I would now rather work with management to save and expand jobs than sit fat dumb and happy while others in the company loose theirs.
Rocking the boat now will cost jobs, and the question you should ask yourselves is "Do I want a job or the dole".
Think before you act in haste. Those who have jobs should try their hardest to keep them. You don't have to win every battle to win the war.
You may think from this that I am in Ryanair management, but I am just an employed pilot who has seen it all got the T shirt and can see what is happening, both from a BALPA PLC point of view and one who wishes to see maximum employment in the industry.
Guy's and Girl's look realistically at the current climate and the hundreds of pilots out there looking for work from Cadet levels to very experienced Captains, and think !!!!
RSS, I have observed has posted on RYR related topics with logic and fact and I consider that he should be listened too in this and other forums.
You cant see the reality for the bull**** that you are being fed from and by those set upon the BALPA road to disaster.
As RSS has said the time is NOT right to force Union recognition, this must wait until the market favours pilots and not vice versa.
The industry is in melt down and there are no secure jobs in our industry.
Should you wish to force the BALPA issue you will only make the Ryanair contracted pilots futures more unstable than they are already.
With a company that is as diverse as Ryanair with bases and Brookfield crews you are on a slippery slope to the unemployment line.
Ryanair contracted pilots are the only ones that BALPA can or will support, and as is the case today the Brookfield pilots cannot be brought into the BALPA fold until there is agreement with Ryanair Brookfield and BALPA (Hell freezing over comes to mind)
The same problems are also evident in other companies seeking representation, who have European bases and differing contracts of employment.
Back off for a year or 18 months, work to keep jobs during that time then look at the big picture, not just individual base or pilot goals, and then in which direction you should then go.
Having been in the job que for several months on more than one occassion, I would now rather work with management to save and expand jobs than sit fat dumb and happy while others in the company loose theirs.
Rocking the boat now will cost jobs, and the question you should ask yourselves is "Do I want a job or the dole".
Think before you act in haste. Those who have jobs should try their hardest to keep them. You don't have to win every battle to win the war.
You may think from this that I am in Ryanair management, but I am just an employed pilot who has seen it all got the T shirt and can see what is happening, both from a BALPA PLC point of view and one who wishes to see maximum employment in the industry.
Guy's and Girl's look realistically at the current climate and the hundreds of pilots out there looking for work from Cadet levels to very experienced Captains, and think !!!!
RSS, I have observed has posted on RYR related topics with logic and fact and I consider that he should be listened too in this and other forums.
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Day Dreamer, I have sat on the dole, post 9/11 and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
The time is not right for any confrontation with any management of any airline: we need to adopt a more responsive approach and seek to retain jobs, even if it means accepting paycuts and a reduction, however temporary in our conditions.
If we were all prepared to take a cut of 10% pay and allowances, night stop in cheaper hotels, job share, fly more hours than the BALPA or union agreement, whatever.....we might be able to keep more of our colleagues employed until the wheel turns. That is collective concern, not tub thumping to get a union in or preserve outdated work practices.
The time is not right for any confrontation with any management of any airline: we need to adopt a more responsive approach and seek to retain jobs, even if it means accepting paycuts and a reduction, however temporary in our conditions.
If we were all prepared to take a cut of 10% pay and allowances, night stop in cheaper hotels, job share, fly more hours than the BALPA or union agreement, whatever.....we might be able to keep more of our colleagues employed until the wheel turns. That is collective concern, not tub thumping to get a union in or preserve outdated work practices.
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Guys, you may well know, from other postings, that I am looking for work and approached the FR option. I would be glad of the job!!!
My profile on the side here shows that I have been doing this for, probably, too long. I joined BALPA in 1970. When an old established charter Airline was taken over by BA I was very high on the seniority list, but on the `wrong` type. So, BALPA supervised the process whereby the guy #2 on the list lost his job but the newest F/O joined BA.
When I needed to go the States to do my FAA written in order to join Saudia BALPA paid the air fare for 3 guys but not for the 2 (including me!) who had joined the action group to fight BA for unfair dismissal! because they disapproved. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
Theses are difficult times.....no ............extraordinary times! MOL is nothing if not a pragmatist, and I am not fond of his style any more than the next man, but if he can keep 200 a/c flying through this ****e then I respectfully suggest that anyone who can participate in that and come through to the good times might be smart to do so. History has shown lots of guys keen to have a scrap, often with someone else in the front line.
This is not an easy profession, but it is an amazingly rewarding one. I have told my kids to write on my stone / plank / piece of cardboard
" Xxxx Xxxxx Born xxxx Died xxxx "If you cant take a joke....you shouldn`t have joined!"
Mind you I am going to win the lottery next week!!
My profile on the side here shows that I have been doing this for, probably, too long. I joined BALPA in 1970. When an old established charter Airline was taken over by BA I was very high on the seniority list, but on the `wrong` type. So, BALPA supervised the process whereby the guy #2 on the list lost his job but the newest F/O joined BA.
When I needed to go the States to do my FAA written in order to join Saudia BALPA paid the air fare for 3 guys but not for the 2 (including me!) who had joined the action group to fight BA for unfair dismissal! because they disapproved. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
Theses are difficult times.....no ............extraordinary times! MOL is nothing if not a pragmatist, and I am not fond of his style any more than the next man, but if he can keep 200 a/c flying through this ****e then I respectfully suggest that anyone who can participate in that and come through to the good times might be smart to do so. History has shown lots of guys keen to have a scrap, often with someone else in the front line.
This is not an easy profession, but it is an amazingly rewarding one. I have told my kids to write on my stone / plank / piece of cardboard
" Xxxx Xxxxx Born xxxx Died xxxx "If you cant take a joke....you shouldn`t have joined!"
Mind you I am going to win the lottery next week!!
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Flyingstig
I was in the same airline but left in '79 and well understand what you went through.
I too have had similar service from BALPA and I am no longer a member.
RSS
I am in full agreement.
We as an industry are in severe trouble, and now is not the time to allow a business called BALPA to gather more 1% subscriptions with the promise of better days to come through their stewardship.
To BALPA, membership subscriptions are more important than those paying out.
Unionisation only works if it is a two way street, and in the current climate survival is the name of the game, for every pilot.
The job losses and airline collapse's are not finished more are to come, dont live in isolation.
I was in the same airline but left in '79 and well understand what you went through.
I too have had similar service from BALPA and I am no longer a member.
RSS
I am in full agreement.
We as an industry are in severe trouble, and now is not the time to allow a business called BALPA to gather more 1% subscriptions with the promise of better days to come through their stewardship.
To BALPA, membership subscriptions are more important than those paying out.
Unionisation only works if it is a two way street, and in the current climate survival is the name of the game, for every pilot.
The job losses and airline collapse's are not finished more are to come, dont live in isolation.
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Being one that still pays BALPA subs, I see there are no less than three articles in the log this month about Ryanair.
It is also very clear from them that BALPA are not concerned at all about the staff at Ryanair, They are simply trying to use them as a weapon in an attempt to protect their members in other UK airlines.
It is also very clear from them that BALPA are not concerned at all about the staff at Ryanair, They are simply trying to use them as a weapon in an attempt to protect their members in other UK airlines.
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Warning Union Busters at work
Ballsout, I don't know what you proclaim to have read, but seeing as the main article was written by an actual Ryanair pilot, you either never read it, or you are on team mis-information with Pilot 99. This really is getting boring, what did pilot99 hand over to you for the evening shift.
Pilot99 nobody is taken in by you, it really is pathethic, we're a bit more savvy than you give us credit for.
Yeah yeah, i'm a genuine pilot, who think MOL and DOB should be knighted, this and that..... where's my bull5h1t button.
Union busting rule 1 - Try and break resolve - tool - lies and misinformation
BORING
DayDreamer - accepted, there are many who have had experiences in the past and say never again for life. But they are a very different, more modern and inclusive organisation, today. its a shame many make a lifelong commitment, if they make a mistake. They have made mistakes and being populated by humans they will again. But they have learned lessons and addressed them and I genuinely believe they really do work very hard for their memebers. But its difficult i am not you and you not me. I accept you may wish to vote NO is an impending vote, but lets at least agree to allow a vote to be democratic and allow people the chance to have their say. Something I think Ryanair want to try and avoid.
Pilot99 nobody is taken in by you, it really is pathethic, we're a bit more savvy than you give us credit for.
Yeah yeah, i'm a genuine pilot, who think MOL and DOB should be knighted, this and that..... where's my bull5h1t button.
Union busting rule 1 - Try and break resolve - tool - lies and misinformation
BORING
DayDreamer - accepted, there are many who have had experiences in the past and say never again for life. But they are a very different, more modern and inclusive organisation, today. its a shame many make a lifelong commitment, if they make a mistake. They have made mistakes and being populated by humans they will again. But they have learned lessons and addressed them and I genuinely believe they really do work very hard for their memebers. But its difficult i am not you and you not me. I accept you may wish to vote NO is an impending vote, but lets at least agree to allow a vote to be democratic and allow people the chance to have their say. Something I think Ryanair want to try and avoid.
Last edited by Fightback Fred; 29th Jun 2009 at 01:15.
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Oh dear..
The only party I see forcing issues is Ryanair management with quite belligerent behaviour and memos which is leading to pilots joining BALPA by the multitude. Nothing to lose now lads.. I’m just looking for the concessions and the pay rise next which should be good.
They will fight to the last man they said. DOB and EW. Fight to the last.
Boring, heard it all before just like the base freezes. Always seem to melt off though when they can't man flights. The old stuff seems to work on some posters and pilots though. Especially the posters with the "been there got the T-Shirt". Lucky your not left in the industry to long then as we would all be lost long term with those attitudes.. Some of us also have the T-Shirt and have achieved good success.
If offering pilots across the UK a vote on their future, which they decide by ticking a box on what they want by a majority vote is forcing something, compared to the shambles of the negotiations a few months back and continuously in Ryanair is classed as "forcing" then I think we need to look at the validity of the post for the value it possesses?
Carry on with unilateral changes of contract and terms or vote in a confidential vote. hhmm let me think a minute..
Should you wish to force the BALPA issue
They will fight to the last man they said. DOB and EW. Fight to the last.
Boring, heard it all before just like the base freezes. Always seem to melt off though when they can't man flights. The old stuff seems to work on some posters and pilots though. Especially the posters with the "been there got the T-Shirt". Lucky your not left in the industry to long then as we would all be lost long term with those attitudes.. Some of us also have the T-Shirt and have achieved good success. If offering pilots across the UK a vote on their future, which they decide by ticking a box on what they want by a majority vote is forcing something, compared to the shambles of the negotiations a few months back and continuously in Ryanair is classed as "forcing" then I think we need to look at the validity of the post for the value it possesses?
Carry on with unilateral changes of contract and terms or vote in a confidential vote. hhmm let me think a minute..
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Scamming
Hi there,
I watched your YouTube video which was very interesting...I knew they scammed pilots....never knew about Cabin Crew until I saw your video.
My flight instructor is starting the TR course in July in Stockholm and is delighted about...sad thing is he could be finished with Ryanair after only 6 months yes?
I watched your YouTube video which was very interesting...I knew they scammed pilots....never knew about Cabin Crew until I saw your video.
My flight instructor is starting the TR course in July in Stockholm and is delighted about...sad thing is he could be finished with Ryanair after only 6 months yes?
RSS,
re EZY winter loss - would you care to add that we are still forecasting a profit for the financial year of 20 - 30 million?
People love to sensationalise things with half truths. Yes a loss of 129mil is not brilliant, but equally, it is traditional for winter months for ALL airlines. Had the fuel hedging not been in place the loss would of been around 40mil. Now that IS good for winter!
So balance things out and not too much scaremongering if you please!
re EZY winter loss - would you care to add that we are still forecasting a profit for the financial year of 20 - 30 million?
People love to sensationalise things with half truths. Yes a loss of 129mil is not brilliant, but equally, it is traditional for winter months for ALL airlines. Had the fuel hedging not been in place the loss would of been around 40mil. Now that IS good for winter!
So balance things out and not too much scaremongering if you please!
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The time is not right for any confrontation with any management of any airline: we need to adopt a more responsive approach and seek to retain jobs
Which is why they will use this opportunity to drive our terms and conditions ever downwards !!!
even if it means accepting paycuts and a reduction, however temporary in our conditions.
What we lose, we never get back ......
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What we lose, we never get back ......
2. how do you explain that to FR crews on Brookfield contracts ?
FR crews on Brookfield contracts are going to be left out in the cold on BALPA negotiations. To some degree there may be a little that can be done for them, but not a lot. They are in effect self employed so have little ability to be represented as employees.
They are the most precarious of FR flight crews, as it is they that will bear the brunt of any retaliatory action from FR management.
While the point made previously is that the younger pilots don't seem to have the balls on this issue, many younger pilots are subject to the Brookfield contracts so have no benefit to BALPA representation only the additional subscription fees.
It is easy to ask pilots to pull together to unionise FR for better terms and conditions, however, in doing that you are asking for the least secured to put themselves up as the cannon fodder.
This practice of full time contracted pilots on 5 year "dedicated" contracts to a single party skirts around the legal issues of "what is employment" and "what is contract".
That is the single biggest threat to T&C's across the industry. Do you think that FR will be the first and last to take on crews in a manner that affords them nothing ?
Think again.
Again we revolve around the same point. This is not the time to be fighting for better T&C's, this is the time to be fighting to prevent an airline going non-linear.
When the situation has stabilized, then the progress for T&C improvement can be started.
Right now, what does anyone have to bargain with ?
Zip, Zero, Zilch, Nada.
Brookfield pilots can be dumped out without so much as "don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out" and FR contracted pilots can be replaced by more Brookfield crews.
There are a lot out there, with line experience, time on type, and those keen to get into a right seat position as we all know. The threads on pprune are filled with people that would gladly fly a kite if they could log the time and keep current, maybe even draw a paycheck, till the market improves.
Flight crews are continually reminded of "the chain of events" that leads to smoking hole in the ground and it is identifying these events and breaking that chain.
There have been several small events that have occurred that lead to the problems we face, some have been put forward already. Those events in T&C's need to be identified and the chain broken, or rather should have been.
They have not, they were not, even when the market was in favour of flight crews (as much as it can be).
As much as it is easy to dismiss "old timers" (No offense to those with decades experience in the industry; it is an effective analogy) with "times have changed" quotes, it is worthwhile listening to them and prior experiences so that false expectations are not entered into or mistakes of the past repeated.
BALPA is not a magic bullet.
As a union, it may help, it may exacerbate the situation.
As flight crews, we need to think through processes and alternatives to arrive at the destination planned. it is the same in negotiations, there needs to be a realistic appreciation of worst case scenarios, alternatives and the processes involved and the current situation as a whole, not just with a blinkered or idealistic view.
If you are that cheesed off with the T&C's in FR, why don't you resign over it and seek an alternative position with another carrier ? Maybe even nominate flyingstig to take over your position?
Why? Because they are not recruiting right now. In fact the opposite.
So, what do you have to bargain with ? Don't bargain with the Brookfield crews.. Bargain with your own position if you believe that much in your cause.
Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 29th Jun 2009 at 12:48. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Apr 2008
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When the situation has stabilized, then the progress for T&C improvement can be started.
If the recognition vote fails and BALPA are locked out for another 3 years, then I guess it will have to be ........
What a depressing thought.
