On strike with Ryanair!

[FRpilot]

Ok guys,

I wish to get back on my main question:


(Taken from my first post) ..."Now, because BRK contract FO's don't have a basic salary, and because they don't fly so much, they come fly SICK! to get the money! is that safe?

Why don't we fight against that, and decide of a one common day ON STRIKE!"

RYR Pilots,
Don't you want to fly and to get pay normally... have a basic salary!
Don't you want to get a pension? a social security? advantages because of your "safe" operation as pilot (MOL said) and at the end be recognised as needeed pilots by Ryanair (and MOL ).
Call for sick because you are sick, and not be affraid to do so (basic salary again!!!)!

Does MOL cut off is salary?... If the board directors decide to do so, do you think MOL will stay?

I sign for this airline, but now it's time to make change and stop flying for nought!
What you earn is not what you get! I mean when FRpilot earn 1€, you don't enjoy this 1€ because you have to pay for your pension, social security, parking, etc etc etc...

Other pilots from other airline, mainly enjoy their 1 €: DO U UNDERSTAND THAT?

[BiZ2000]

To Rednex, pressman:

This "BiZ airfrance" is a fake. The guy behind this has NOTHING to do with Air France whatsoever. I wouldn't want you to think this opinion is shared among Air France employees. This was just a pathetic attempt to make me and my airline look bad here, and use this against me on a french forum. Sorry for the noise, fly safe.

[eagerbeaver1]

Mr Camel, why write 500 words when 25 will do? I get bored of the posh words and references.

How about in less than 50 words "Why is Balpa good for Ryanair Pilots?"

[Carmoisine]

Anyone who criticizes cadet first officers for selling their souls to the devil, misses the most important half of their stories. We only the take the best of them, because experience has taught us that only the best of them will survive the demands of the training department, something that ALL Ryanair cadet pilots should be extremely proud of.

Leo Me 'auld Segoise!

Proof if it were every needed that your claims of being a Ryanair Captain are nothing short of a total fantasy. These would be the Cadets with Level 4 ICAO ELP, wink wink, nudge nudge? Up until 2 years ago the recruitment process was a sick joke, anyone with a pulse was taken, a JAR licence was not even needed such was the depths that were trawled. Why was it that the IAA was the only CAA to hand out JAR validations, why did we need so many Brazilian Skippers?

You continue bleating the same lies despite them being thoroughly debunked:

• It doesn´t cost a grand a year for BALPA. Especially not on our salaries. Especially not after 66% tax relief.
• The myth that BALPA obtained a pay cut for Thomson Pilots.

The idea of Propaganda is that if you repeat it enough the mantra becomes a truth? I also note that you fail to answer direct questions asked of you. Another sign of a propagandist.

Moreover, they appeal to those (almost always British) pilots who lack the inherent self-confidence to manage their own lives without some external, vaguely consoling force, inserting a suppository of "dignity and respect"™© intra-rectally.

What is this fixation with "Anal insertions". Barely a post goes by when you don't mention that part of the anatomy. There are other kinds of sites for that sort of adult entertainment Leo, although you usually have to pay a monthly subscription.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Carmoisine, you old ratbag. It is, I think, singularly appropriate since this is the orifice from which emerges all BLAPA utterances, including their recent Newsletters, all of which are a study in the devious black art of deceit, falsehood and distortion.

Leo, although you usually have to pay a monthly subscription.

Perhaps, but I'm sure that those who do get a lot more for their money than anyone dumb enough to hurl yoyos in the direction of BLAPA.

Ná bac le mac an bhacaigh is ní bacfaidh mac an bhacaigh leat.

[boink105]

For all those sitting on the fence, let me just say that if you listen to all the nonsense that your management is telling you ask yourself why are they saying that? It’s coming from an individual that is trying to get a larger bonus if the pilots don’t vote for representation. They keep stirring the pot. Divide and conquer is the tactic. The next tactic is the “ We didn’t know it was so bad, you have our attention now, let’s sit down and talk about it. We don’t need a nasty old union here.” letter that comes out. Those who want to be organized have been hosed enough and those who aren’t sure just haven’t been screwed over enough times to say enough is enough. When it’s done correctly you have a good working relationship with management. Communication is the key. Dump the “us versus them” attitude. Educate yourself about your rights as an employee and then educate your coworkers. Support your leadership and get involved. If it’s done right it’s a win-win.

We’re working on our first contract now and our pilot group is split. But, we still have a fairly good attitude on all sides and we are working to maintain that through discussions and sending out information to all the crews. It's the rank and file pilots that make the union work.

[Barden]

Then he spoke, and it was plain to all that Leo Hairy-Nazi aka William Joyce was showing his true colours

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

When it’s done correctly you have a good working relationship with management.

Just like in your country, Boink105?


What a wonderful vision of the future.

[boink105]

Leo, I don't think your visual aid posted. might be my settings. anyway pointless sarcasim noted

[alibaba]

Don't feed the troll that can not answer questions put to him about abuse in the workplace. Don't feed the troll that can not answer questions about a management that is hell bent on bullying its workforce. He chooses not to answer various questions put to him because he can not without losing the argument. He endeavours to play the line that management and him know better than the average line pilot and that you should just fall in and do what you are told. How arrogant! A whole nation bought into that back in the 1940’s and look what happened.

LHN = Ryanair management. It is as simple as that and whether that is directly or indirectly. Management are making a mockery of you LHN. They use you to spout their propaganda such as £1000 a year BALPA subs (lie) and will let you out to dry as they do with BC's, Base supervisors and everyone else who try to climb the greasy pole. Your reputation will be the one that suffers.

Intimidation is happening in Ryanair and is a very real situation for many past, present and future pilots in the company unless pilots make the right decision come vote day.

It will go to vote and pilots will make their voice heard there either way. A free, open and democratic vote on what they want to do. There will be a huge amount of pressure from management because they do not want this to be open and democratic hence the threats. http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...-roulette.html

This is plainly because of obvious reasons such as better terms and conditions for pilots.

According to Ryanair management propaganda all BALPA do for pilots is negotiate pay cuts and job losses. If that was true, why would Ryanair management not welcome BALPA and its pilots as it would help on the balance sheet by keeping costs down?

[ssschmokin1]

Day dreamer said:

Ssschmokin
You have 3 major problems !!
Ryanair Management :- who dont have to listen too or action any BALPA recomendations.

Hi Day dreamer. These are good points so here we go: You would be surprised what a determined, organised group of pilots could achieve. If we are impotent, why are the management ranting at us to try to stop us? THEY obviously don't agree with you. See posts above - a work to rule would have a serious effect on the schedule, for example, as RYR more than any other airline I know of runs entirely due to the goodwill of the pilots, and their willingness (now run out) to work ever harder with less and less support to keep to the scheule.

Brookfields Contract Pilots :- Differing T & C's from RYR contracts, How many will support any action which stops them being paid, or just effects RYR pilot's T & C's.

I think that Brookfield pilots are intelligent enough to realise that once RYR management has driven down the permanent staff salaries, they are next! Particularly when the job market is slow such as today. Also, when you have few employment rights as a contractor, someone to fight your corner with any legal mishaps becomes even more important, no? BTW a work to rule for example wouldn't affect anyone's pay.....

Foreign Based Pilots :- Who can work rotations from outside the UK without reducing the schedule significantly.

No they can't. This is one of the big whoppers management tell. Think about it, airports that have enough business to make early departures and late arrivals viable become bases. Ryanair doesn't miss a trick on this sort of stuff - if a potential base is available, it would already be utilised. What are they going to do, fly in empty aircraft to run early services from UK bases, or damage the business in some other way by shutting viable bases. The mangement are in post to grow the business, not damage it and the shareholders would have something to say on this matter for sure. If a UK base was to shut, it would be because it is not running profitably, and a few quid on pilot salaries would not change that either way. The management, however, would try and blame it on the pilots!

Hope this makes sense, I am a couple of beers to the good!!!

[cptdivz]

Dear aviators,

Few quick questions,

If Ryanair management know they can treat their pilots like ****, what use would a union realistically do? The pilots going on an actual strike seems too far fetched. Could MOL replace his pilots (including more senior pilots) quickly if he needed? Even though i hate to admit it- bringing in new first officers every 6 months and booting out the ones with 500 hours is brilliant business! The pilot wage bill at Ryanair must be insignificant compared to other airlines. Why would MOL and Ryanair stop this dirty tactic? It does not seem illegal- plus I am sure the European commission would not give a **** as well, they probably think they have bigger problems to solve, how far wrong am i? Look forward to your replies guys!

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz.

[Fightback Fred]

Cptdivz - If Mol could get away with it, I reckon he would. He is no respecter of people.

I don't believe your post to be genuine, It smacks of a carefully veiled threat aimed at scaring junior F/O's.

But lets play along.

It won't happen, nobody would hand over the vast sum of money for training as soon as they realise people are being booted out at 500 hours. If MOL could he would. There is no loyalty from him, he always does what he thinks he can "get away with"

Then their is training, it takes time and effort from many to indoctrinate into FR SOP's.

In days of limited credit and a shiny new type rating academy, lets see how far that would get him. not very

[cptdivz]

Fightback Fred

Mr Fred I assure you the post is genuine! I am just a uni student who is a wanabe like the rest of the lot. Out of interest though-what makes you think I am an impostor?

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz

[Barden]

Dear cptdiv,

I respectfully suggest this forum is more suitable for your musings.

Barden.

[Fightback Fred]

Cptdivz this is the only reply you will get, such posts as yours are all to common. in making disguised suggestions, designed to initimidate and scare people.

If you are a wannabe at Uni then what hope is there for you, you want to fly aircraft as a professional and this is your suggestion? Its brilliant business?

What do you think should be the primary driving force in aviation? let me tell you it should be safety.

What is the real primary driving force in aviation? it is money.

Your suggestion latches onto the second with no regard of the first. and in such you show yourself to have little clue in the profession you profess to join.

Another very plain and simple truth, pilots are people, not robots, they have spent years and time in training to reach a competent grade. And then from that point onwards, experience is fundamental to safety.

"Why don't taxi firms just employ cheaper 17 year olds who've just passed their driving tests"?

Even though i hate to admit it- bringing in new first officers every 6 months and booting out the ones with 500 hours is brilliant business!

It isn't brilliant business it is very poor business and short sighted, to make decisons based purely on profit, is very dangerous territory, each one increases, the risks of an incident.

For sure it happens as some Airline managers are only interested in bottom line at any cost.

How far do you want to stretch a piece of elastic, one day it will snap.

On a purely industry case, lowering the experience gradient for profit in no way enhances safety, anyone who would make such a suggestion is either clueless or management.

From a human point, I hope I never bump into someone who flys aircraft who thinks such behaviour, in "booting out" capable and growing F/O's (with huge financial and personal debt to get there), purely for profit and lowering the experince gradient is OK......... well how could any non manager, who say they seek to do the job, make such a callous suggestion?

CptDivz, a strike is not far fetched, (though never desirable), it comes about when unscrupulous employers do things. It is a collective decision, made only after a hostile management refuses to acknowledge reasonable protocol. Or to make unilateral decsions such as the one you put forward. In such circumstances it is often done as a last resort.

If there was EVER an airline at any time in history that needs a union the most it is Ryanair. And it is for more than just pay and perks, Ryanair commercial bosses are great at amassing money, they have limited people managing skills, its all about money, no interest in how decisions and basing inflexibility affect peoples family lives, only money, no grasp on how ruthless and unilateral descisions can affect a pilot physically or psycologically . only bullying behaviour (as per the roulette memo) control mechanisms and money.

One of the managers said at an anti union meeting, "we don't run it like an airline but like a business" dangerous ground indeed.

[cptdivz]

Mr Fred,

Thanks for your comments, interesting to see your angle to this topic! And Barden- no need for your comments.

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz!

[Laughing Boy]

So now there's no need to worry about what they will do if we get union recognition because they're going to shaft us anyway. So we have nothing to lose!!!!

[babemagnet]

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
We have recently completed a review of our UK growth plans. This review has been prompted by
deteriorating market conditions including (a) the weakness of sterling, (b) falling UK fares and yields, (c) the
recession reducing discretionary spend on travel and (d) the ridiculous £10 Government tourist tax, making
the UK' (particularly regional bases) expensive and unattractive to inbound tourists who can find much better
value elsewhere in Europe.
There is now a serious question mark over the viability of some of our UK regional bases and whether we
further invest or cut back in the UK. The recent BALPA recognition campaign (which could not be more ill
timed or stupid) adds to this uncertainty in the current loss making environment in the UK.
In order to reduce trading losses in the UK market we have taken a business decision to temporarily freeze all
growth at UK Bases with immediate effect. We will now concentrate all of our growth elsewhere in Europe,
where the business environment, economic sentiment and fares are better than the UK (for example the
Belgian and Dutch Governments have recently repealed their travel taxes). All Pilot transfers in and out of
the UK will cease from today, all Pilot promotions including command upgrades will be frozen with
immediate effect. A review of this freeze of UK bases will not take place until the end of 2009 and
depending on how the market develops (most importantly whether the UK £10 tax remains in place)
and this will determine whether the freeze is lifted or extended for another period until the UK market
shows some signs of recovery. Any such review may also take account of other peripheral issues such as
the continuation or otherwise of the BALPA campaign.
Our largest base, Stansted has not escaped unscathed and while we have had some success with the recent
Competition Commission ruling on the breakup ofBAA airport monopoly, the BAA is challenging the
Commission's decision in the courts. Our position on Pilot manning levels in Stansted for the winter schedule is
also under review as BAA costs continue to rise. We presently plan to repeat substantial fleet cuts at Stansted this
winter and this may lead to more unpaid leave or even job losses at the Stansted Base. We will keep you updated on
any further changes when this review is complete, what the scale of aircraft reductions (short and or long term) will
be at Stansted, and whether these reductions will necessitate unpaid leave or redundancies.
As usual we will continue to meet with our UK Base ERC's over the coming months to update them on
developments as they occur. This is a very difficult time for all of us in the industry. You may rest assured that
Ryanair will be doing everything we can to minimise job losses and maximise job security - thank you all for your
continued support.

[CaptainJim]

Ryanair T&C

I detect a lot of wannabes on this forum. Ryanair has its problems but most of us had no other choice. Brookfield pilots have a much higher earning potential to Ryanair contracts. If I was on a Ryanair contract I would be up in arms over my T & C. Sadly I don't think BALPA care enough to really get stuck in, just as IALPA didn't. The market will decide our T&C with a possible little nudge from a Flag carrier Union. (BritishAirways Air Line Pilots Assosiation)
BA has great T&C but they are struggling to survive and they, as we have all seen are trying impose up to a months unpaid leave or work on all 40000 employess.
Ryanair pay ok at best but remember there are a lot of mickeymouse companies out there who pay a lot worse. Just look on PPJN

So don't call us scabs unless you have a realistic alternative? and I said realistic!!!!!!
If we went on strike these sorry wannabes with all their uninformed anti-FR BS would be the 1st to take our jobs on half the rates.

however unpaid leave for Ryanair contracts & then announce profits thats BS