Ryanair threatens it's pilots, again.

[zerotohero]

I also have heard nothing, all the guys I trained with are still here as are lots of new faces, if that had happened I bet they would have been on here saying how Ryanair ripped them off, but not so much as a peep!

sounds like chinese whispers to me

[delwy]

promises are made by repa...

BongleBear unless I am very mistaken REPA never made any promises to anybody. In fact, I seem to remember being repeatedly told that REPA could do nothing unless Ryanair pilots wanted to do something. There was stuff about REPA being only a method of communication for Ryanair pilots, etc, etc.

But maybe I got it wrong - so can you provide an single example of a promise made by REPA?

[delwy]

And what are we to make of you, Delwy, in the Eurovision contest of squealing stuck pigs? Nil points, je propose.

My dearest Leo. How nice to have attracted your attention. I consider it a compliment that I should have been deemed worthy of your consideration and condescension.

Mais, moi ami, nul points? What a mortal put down. You know the weasel wound, you dirty devil.

As always, anyone with a view at variance with your own must, by definition, be a management stooge.

Now Leo, my good fellow, you are unlike the trolls and flotsam of this particular unterwelt, (amongst others – and I just adored your bit on Brideshead Revisited for example, and as for the other unterwelten ‘nuff said). In turn you could do me the minimal courtesy of avoiding mindless accusations for which there is no supporting evidence. Mr. Chairman, a point of information for the camel, yer man only proposed a test for the confused and schizoid of Ryanair; he went no further than to make a proposition for a "fellow traveller litmus test", so please tell the camel to read with more attention.

How very tiresome. How very ordinary. How very un-Leo.

Leo, as that most discomforted and discombobulated of afflicted mortals, namely one with the intelligence to work it all out, you can really do better. But don’t worry about lil ole moi – apply your efforts to what sits, self-evidently, in front of your very own nose, “Ryanair Reality”.

This pilot can do better, judging from his previous efforts. Counselling may help, but we may be talking about decades. Sad. Irredeemable. Advanced rhetorical and ideological disease with a dose of suppressed self-loathing syndrome – and all compressed into a self-righteous Ryanair pilot.

I would have thought this depressingly dismal package might even prove to be untreatable.

[BongleBear]

jesus christ you guys need to get a hobby. this isn't good for your health.

The rest of us will do our bit to draw the line.

That's all fine until something needs to actually be done - not just written by an alias on some forum. But you wont will you. There wont be any action by the average pilot, because they don't care enough. That's all I was saying- I was admitting to be being one of them.

BB - I can't speak for your pay increases, but I have certainly had pay cuts in my time here! Not to mention conditions which have been flittered away over the years by successive impotent ERCs.

And I can't speak for your pay cuts - I wasn't saying paycuts haven't occured, I know they have. All I said was they haven't happened to me. I joined as a second officer, then first officer, then was lucky enough to get one of the 'old style' senior first officer contracts. When I joined the company I was working 5/3. Then it improved to 5/4. Yes, there have been some changes that are negative, but to me getting that single extra day off is worth more than several subtle changes. Short sighted? Maybe. But that's up to me.

I will repeat my point again: when balpa or repa actually put together a solution then I know I will be hoping for union recognition. But until that point, I am keeping my head down.

But maybe I got it wrong - so can you provide an single example of a promise made by REPA?

Ok, promises was the wrong choice of word. However, I am sick of hearing how much better it will be when repa have power - when will this happen?! That's what I want to know. On the other hand, I am more sick of the awful, immature behavoir of ryanair management (we all know who the individuals are) when they send out the propaganda posters. It's just like scribbling 'repa sucks' on the toilet walls at a primary school. Both sides need to get their act together.

[the grim repa]

Top posts Delwy.Nothing hurts the management stooges like a dose of homw truth.

I am amused by hero to zero offering his presumption that all is well because "all the guy i joined with are still here and lots of new faces besides".You have only been in the company less than six months,a bit premature for an assessment i would think.As for bongle bear,displaying the typical attitude of me,me,me prevalent in so many gutless wonders.again we see the old adage,"when balpa etc deliver progress at my feet then i will take what i can get whilst doing nothing to merit gain and let others take all the risks on my behalf".Pathetic children.Keep your heads down boys and let the world pass you by.Cowards!!!

As for leo,he is just a shadow of his former self, must be something eating at him maybe!

[Cloud Bunny]

Slightly off rant but anyone know why they want our crewcodes and email addresses? RYR Contract pilots only it says on Crewdock. Surely they have all this information already?
Are we to assume we're to be bombarded with emails telling us the world will come to a shuddering halt if we vote in BALPA??

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Pressman presses the wrong button.

To this end it has worked very well

No it hasn't Pressman, its been an unmitigated failure. Just in case there are any out there as yet unconvinced as to the pointlessness of throwing £1000 every year at the BLAPA parasites, perhaps you'll permit me a few salient examples as to the levels of thrall previously enjoyed, and not so very long ago too, by those who would now pass themselves of as cheerleaders-in-chief.

I hesitate in using this first one, since its author wasn't so much educated, as grown in a petri dish of ooze, but needs must when the devil drives.

didimus
14th Feb 2008 - 12:00 PM
Post #1
Posts: 906
Joined: 21-October 04
I Hate to admit it but this website has turned into the biggest load of b*ll*cks i have been associated with.no moderators present,no leadership from ialpa/balpa,absolute bull**** in the threads.if after all this time ialpa/balpa have not come up with a plan,then it is safe to say that there will be no plan and this website is now just a farce.for a website that was set up for pilot welfare and to promote unity,it is a joke.i am pissed off with this bull****.where is the campaign,where is the information,the coordinated strategy.i would be embarassed to let an outsider access to this website.shut it down and that jokey office in stn also.at least turn off the heating and website access.then it is possible that the balpa numbnuts there might actually get out and meet some ryanair pilots.

THIS WEBSITE IS A JOKE!!!

Well, its hard to disagree with that final sentiment. Not very attractive, either. Now then, what else have we got here in the Camel's feedbag? Ah yes. Emphasis is mine.

didimus
15th Feb 2008 - 15:00 PM
Post #5
Posts: 906
Joined: 21-October 04
all due respect but i have heard this argument,over and over.the truth is nobody knows anything and we are not moving forward,quite the contrary.we continue to lose good guys to other airlines.a lot happening behind the scenes has been going on for a long time now and we are no nearer to putting the most basic of foundations in place.i would love to believe that we are making progress but in the absence of evidence,i have now to assume that we are not going anywhere.when balpa promise me a recognition campaign and continue to take my money.i would be a fool to continue to believe that they will ever do any proactive.sitting in an office does not cut it for me anymore.when the balpa moderator reads this,let he be under no illusion,i will lead a mass resignation from balpa in the coming months.they are simply not doing anywhere near enough.before i hear about calling them or visiting their office.it has all been done to no avail.they are the ones who should be calling us.balpa like ryanair may assume we are fools,that will cost them!!!

See what this latest brouhaha is all about folks? Tossing a bone to Didimus and his coterie of whinnying nincompoops in order to protect a revenue stream. Good business, sure, but ethical? Hmmm.

And then there's the senior airman from BRS, old enough and smart enough to know better, and yet now we find him waving the flag like a demented west country Joan of Arc. But what was it he penned not so long ago? Once again, the emphasis is mine.

rubik101
16th Feb 2008 - 21:00 PM
Post #16
Posts: 160
Joined: 20-February 07
I joined BALPA last September and have yet to get even so much as an e-mail from them, let alone a membership card or magazine.
BALPA are happy to taker my money but have shown little interest in me or Ryanair, as far as I can see. When are the airport meetings, when will we know if we have enough members to represent the pilot body, when will the ballot occur ?
When will BALPA let the world know that protecting Ryanair pilots should be their number ONE prority. Where We go this week, the rest will follow in the weeks to come.
If nothing happens in the next few months, least of all a membership card, I will leave the Union and the pilots can go hang.

I have the nasty feeling that REPA was set up by FR management to divide the pilots and to give them the misguided idea that they had a forum to unite them against the management. In fact, it has done exactly what it was designed to do, divided and conquered the fragmented pilots.

The talk about unity means nothing if no-one is in charge. I am uniting with whom, might I ask? We can be as united as much as is possible but unless someone steps up to the plate and delivers the ultimatum to FR bosses, then just what are we members of? A pointless, ineffectual, mutual moaning society?

A pointless, ineffectual, mutual moaning society, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, sounds like BLAPA to me. Unless of course you happen to be employed by the Barons of Hounslow in which case BLAPA will provide you with a toe job and toss your salad on demand.

It goes on and on and on, but the one take away lesson for you all is that Ryanair is hiring pilots, promoting pilots, expanding their network and laying the foundation for a future beyond your wildest imaginings. Meanwhile, these poor, sad creatures of REPA/BLAPA or whatever they call themselves this week, are changing their minds faster than a Schizophrenic on crack.

Netjets are about to dump 300 pilots on June 2nd, BA are about to toss out the longest swimmers from the shallow end of their holding pool, Virgin drops 100+, and all good union boys all. You just don't get it do you? Union membership will absolutely NOT protect you when times are tough, only a successful airline will do that for you, and as much as it irks some of you to hear it, there just ain't no fitter and meaner Gorilla in this market than the Irish blue and yellow. Get with the programe.

[charlies angel]

Methinks She doth protest too much

[Superpilot]

Open your eyes up to the following:

Ryanair, according to ITA, the world's largest international passenger carrying airline. Arguably one of the most successful airlines in the history of aviation with the highest growth/expansion rate ever seen in the world. An airline with a 200 strong fleet of aircraft with average age of just 2.5 years. Boeings biggest customer outside of the US. Boeing biggest customer since 2001.

Ryanair is clearly a spectacularly successful airline which could've only succeeded with a fantastic business model and good ideas. An airline which is at this present time unchallengeable.

Growing up as a wannabe over the last 10 years one thing sticks out like no other. And that is the amount of people who view Ryanair as a whorehouse where they know they will get treated dirty but can very quickly move on to achieve that goal that everyone aspires to but elsewhere.

So then, what has Ryanair got to lose by keeping its work force happy? Which the vast majority obviously aren’t. Why threaten, persecute and reduce your workforce to nothing when all they want to do is have a healthy career with your very own airline? Your workforce wants a career which they can look forward to; enjoy without getting overworked and underpaid. One with which they are treated with respected. What is the logic in denying these basic needs that so many other airlines provide? Is the answer money? Well to some extent, obviously yes. But is it so much money that is at stake here? Are Ryanair really going to lose so much money here that their profits are going to plunge? Again, is the worlds most successful airline so reliant on the abuse of it's employees for money? Sure every company does it to some extent, but does Ryanair, the airline of airlines, have to continue to do this even though it's financial position is described daily as: "yeah whatever, €xx billion in the bank!” If so, then the Airline is already in deep trouble. If not, then I ask again, what's the problem? Isn’t employee happiness an investment?

Most successful companies of Ryanair’s size are people investors, they invest a great deal of time and money in keeping all of their work force happy and content (long term profit, low attrition and company stablisation as opposed to quick profits at the demise of everyone else and the airlines reputation). They recognise that providing job security (as opposed to obscure contracts and threats of termination) and a healthy work environment is the key to nurturing a bond between worker and employer. Most companies openly view their success as a product of what their workforce has achieved. Have you ever heard such words from Ryanair?

At the end of the day, the airline, a private company is what it is as a result of the directions its driven in by a few select powerful people. This could change overnight but it wont. So what is Ryanair’s problem? It’s quite different to other airlines but quite common in the big old corporate world – Corporate Greed. That international conglomerate disease that should be feared by all because it hands disproportional power and money to people who are corrupted by power and money - a few hand select people at the top. That’s all it is. There can be no other reason for Ryanair’s behaviour towards its own workforce. It is the corporate greed of a few people that results in reduced working conditions for all below them but increased personal profits and bonuses for themselves. What more is there to say?

[zerotohero]

Good Post

Yup, Its There Train Set

P.S. WHERE ARE ALL THESE ANGRY FR PILOTS IN THE FIGHT DECK, THERES NONE THAT I FLY WITH, CANT REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I FLEW WITH SOMEONE THAT DID NOT LIKE THERE JOB, MOST REALLY DO SAY THEY LOVE IT AND A GOOD FEW ALL SAY THE SAME ABOUT BALPA, IN THAT THEY REALLY ARE NOT INTERESTED AND WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP BANGING ON ABOUT IT

[McBruce]

Leo, please explain, using BALPA's figures, how the cost is £1000 subscription per annum. I pay £7 per month as an FO.

I guarantee you he won't be able to give any credible response.

Lets say for one minute it was £1000 yearly subscription, ryanair pilots would still be in a better position with BALPA in the door. How many thousands have we lost this year?

No one is saying we do not like our jobs, what people don't like is being bent over and loosing 40% of their salary over the past 10 years. Zero, in the next 10 years would you accept a further 40% gradual loss in your salary? or are you more interested in the cloud formations?

[minuteman]

...and on and on and on and on......

My dear colleague Capt. Hairy-Camel...

It's so good to see you on the line with your brethren while you devise more ways to skew reality once you get out of the airplane and back to your keyboard, where, apparently, it all makes sense to you.

While I can understand that a busy flying schedule of a normal line pilot such as yourself Leo could easily prevent you from trawling the REPA website looking for posts well over a year old, I'm glad to see that your paid work didn't interrupt what must have been a long and thankless task.

Anyway, just to make it clear. The latest posts on the website refer directly to how FR management have threatened your own colleagues that if they had the audacity (or good sense) to bring a union in, that FR management would stop their careers in their tracks (not sure of the legality of that - oh wait! Leo is already a line captain.)

That they would give them the most unfavourable rosters they could (just for joining a union?)

That they wouldn't let pilots transfer base - because - as you continue to repeatedly again and again claim in the face of the facts - they choose to spend "£1000" to be in a union?

C'mon Leo, give your colleagues the real story. What we have is the same old rhetoric that you have continued to pollute the internet with ever since some of your colleagues had the idea of actually believing in something and standing up for themselves. Who knows what diatribes you give in the cockpit as you fly the line Leo?

Do we have scared management? Why else would they feel the need to trawl up and down the country berating their employees if your colleagues are absolutely so unlikely to stand up for themselves? If BALPA/IALPA/whoever are such a redundant force why waste so much time and effort (and oxygen) on convincing people of your own position?

Until we meet again...

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Or if they sing, 'tis with so dull a cheer;

Minuteman, my dear chap! I see the reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated, for which I am much relieved. I note though, with heavy heart, your tone is somewhat more belligerent since you've been occupying yourself in aerodrome spotters corner. Heaven forfend that I might be the cause, but perhaps the real reason lies closer to home?

Your principal point of argument, much admired and sadly missed, has always been the warm and fuzzy feeling IALPA membership has given you late at night, especially when perusing your P-60, no doubt. I'd be fascinated to learn, truly, of your point of view now that Aer Lingus is well and truly circling the drain. Riderless and as paralysed as any near-dead horse can be, the Shamrock is flying off into the sunset, dispatching Airbus wide-bodies across a humourless Atlantic with 37, 17, 64 passengers and all the while the snouts in the trough back at home are rachetting up the suction ever higher. Quite a disgusting spectacle, when viewed from the safety of distance, but it must be truly heartrending when one is emotionally involved as you, so clearly, are.

The latest posts on the website refer directly to how FR management have threatened your own colleagues

Nonsense, dear friend. Under the current leadership, the world really is a simple place. Pilots are viewed just as any other cost centre, like airports, fuel, Air Navigation charges, and maintenance, all of which need to be kept under control in order to maximise profitability and all the wonderful fruit that falls from that tree. Fruit for all, by the way, including, perversely, those whom you claim we seek to subjugate unfairly.

You have always suggested that Union membership is a way to make more equal the battlefield and a means whereby the sorts of endemic exploitation those here are quite falsely claiming, can be avoided. I, and others, maintain that the future is best negotiated without a union, knowing at first hand, many times over, the sort of feral fecklessness that inevitably follows. A closer look to your own back yard would seek to make my point for me.

It is a choice, and when it comes to BLAPA/IALPA, I choose no. For all his warts, I would rather have a hundred MOL's thundering away in front of the cameras and even if he really does think of me and my colleagues as cosseted taxi drivers, so long as my airline is growing and my paycheck is bloated and regular, he may say and think whatever pleases him.

You may care to reflect upon the things that matter in YOUR life, dear Minuteman, as your airline implodes upon itself in the days and weeks ahead.

Oh, and in a much missed shared interest of years gone by...

For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

Good to see you, old friend.

[eagerbeaver1]

Mr Camel, whilst you and i are on a totally different page I do enjoy your posts, I know you like to be wound up and vice-versa. My question to you is, Are you happy to be thought of and treated like a douschbag? (sic) A chap with your prose would do well in Balpa.

Please stop banging on about the 1000 pound annual fee, it is not even close as we don't earn enough.

I have been personally threatened three times now wrt union business.

[Cadet Pilot UK]

OH Hairy one LEO,

You never cease to amaze me with your lack of consideration for others, you hear consistent views from lots of pilots and still dismiss them on the understanding that only Leo's viewpoint is valid. Take a chill pill or I detect a coronary coming on, its not healthy to get so worked up you know.

You'll be please to learn (but not as pleased as me) that I won't be joining Ryanair/Brookfield as I've got another job and will be "employed" with all the normal benefits and security that one would expect as a pilot! Thank god I won't get to fly with you.

Good luck with your airline LEO, my opinion is that it will all go wrong for Ryanair/Brookfield when the market picks up and the floodgates open, the expansion plans seem great on paper, but as soon as other options are available there will be nobody left to fly the aircraft, so the airline will end up well and truly in the mire. I don't think that you'll then be so full of your own importance, its not good to break all the rungs of the ladder when you're on the way up LEO!

[GGV]

F14 makes a very good point.

Some of our "cadets" and several others should be well beyond the "cadet" stage seem oblivious to what is going on here.

Leo H C is the most obvious of the Ryanair supporters and "counter-revolutionaries" whose job it is to challenge and deflect the negative stories coming out of Ryanair. Every poster who takes them seriously and responds gives them an excuse to deflect attention from the issues at hand. These posters are not interested in either the facts, nor in a debate. They are just doing propaganda.

When you "feed these trolls" by engaging with their ramblings you are helping Ryanair. Does anybody here really believe that Leo H C is interested in a discussion or debate?

So, please do not feed any troll and especially not Leo H C.


(P.S. Also interesting to see how Ryanair have even changed the meaning of the word cadet - which used to mean one thing only - into something which means YOU pay for all of your training AND your type-rating for a promise of a job. Whatever that category of pilot might be called, cadet is not the correct word!).

[greuzi]

My two-pence worth

This is one of the best threads on pprune right now. So many opposing views yet very few really understand the world we live in. By the way, I am not connected to FR in anyway shape or form.

1. Flying aircraft is a job. Pilots are a cost to be factored into the P&L. If you can buy oil at $66 why pay $100? If Ryanair can source pilots cheaper they are doing exactly what they should as managers. If people do it for free that is not the fault of FR.
2. Many seem to think BALPA will fix everything. MOL will be worried either way?
3. Ryanair will get their hands on Air Lingus in the end. Slots at LHR/DUB
and then you can fly long-haul instead of just messing around in Europe.
4. The Ryanair cabin in purple and yellow actually gives me a headache. Am I the only one to suffer this? I don't fly Ryanair now because of this.
5. The pricing is all over the shop. It is often cheaper to fly BA, Swiss, LH etc. and the ordeal is nicer.

In short, there is a lot I don't like about Ryanair (more than written here) but they are successful in todays world. If you don't like them don't fly / work with them but please stop all the moaning. Use the time you waste to write a nice CV and escape the doom you choose to live in.

[the grim repa]

Greuzi - when you have some time ,you may well educate us innocent idiots as to the ways of the world we live in.I just thought as a tax payer,we were put on this earth to bail out the banks,management and car industry.pay politicians expenses and serve the self porpogating industries of inhuman resources and security nazis.i may very well be wrong of course.

[greuzi]

Grim repa

You are 100% correct my friend.
I would not even open that Sunday paper you have in front of you.
Just roll over and cuddle the wife instead..

[kick the tires]

Leo chooses not to give an explanation for his mythical £1000.

He also chooses to ignore the fact that it is actually 1% of BASIC pay.

He also chooses to ignore the fact that the 1% is tax deductable at 40%!!!

Silly, silly boy.